Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Cruelrain]

As for Jean we've discussed her portrayal at length. I know some fans don't like it when Jean is perfect but some don't like it when she's not. I liked that Jean was brutal with Emma because most people have a breaking point or can have a bad day and go too far.

This is absolutely true, i have seen people being angry at the character for being to "perfect" but then critizing when her does something different or has an actitude.

I remember reading comments on a YT video of Logan/Jean and fans of Cyclops or even just X-men fans calling her a bad Wife/Woman for having "something" with Logan but ignoring all the bad things Cyclops did with Madelyne, Emma, Jean etc.

[spirit2011]

X-men 94 was written by Davis, not Claremont. And who said Claremont's run was a sales failure? If you are going to compare the two writers, both had an ongoing at the same time and Claremont's didnt even come close to the same sales

His Revolution run may have sold fine but the books were horrible as he was creatively bankrupt. He came back with stale ideas and his writing style no longer worked in that then modern era. The end of the 90s was not good for the X-line and Claremont returned with more of the same. Morrison injected much needed energy into the books and Claremont's X-treme even benefited by being recontextualized into that new status qup

Only sales data are objective. Many people might had liked his revolution run, it is possible.

Comics were never known about getting quality over sales. The problem is that they simply didn't liked Claremont and wanted fresh blood.
It is a pure marketing problem, Morrison didn't improve sales or anything. Quesada even had to call Whedon and sales weren't as good as marvel expected too. They wanted a 300k per month

I don't compare flagship book with made up 3rd rate books. if it was uncanny x-men, I could go, but it wasn't even that. They just gave him a book to Claremont shut up.

[Havok83]

Only sales data are objective. Many people might had liked his revolution run, it is possible.

Comics were never known about getting quality over sales. The problem is that they simply didn't liked Claremont and wanted fresh blood.
It is a pure marketing problem, Morrison didn't improve sales or anything. Quesada even had to call Whedon and sales weren't as good as marvel expected too. They wanted a 300k per month

I don't compare flagship book with made up 3rd rate books. if it was uncanny x-men, I could go, but it wasn't even that. They just gave him a book to Claremont shut up.

then how do you explain Claremont's X-treme selling about half of Morrison's numbers if he was so great in that era? Even Austen's book did better

[MechaJeanix]

May 2001
New X-Men #114 (Grant Morrison First issue) : 144,835 copies sold
X-Treme X-men #1 (Chris Claremont) : 135,216 copies sold.

3 years later...

January 2004
New X-Men #151 : 124,048 copies sold
X-Treme X-men #39 : 57,739 copies sold.

Just saying.

I feel like Jean in X-men Red. We're going to crush the lies and weaponize the truth LOL
X-men Red was such a timely story in the era of alternative facts and mass misinformation. These themes are why the book got so much attention and acclaim. It was timely and relevant.

[franckd]

I feel like Jean in X-men Red. We're going to crush the lies and weaponize the truth LOL

I hope so, lol

The great things about numbers, is that they're real. Morrison did not lose half of his sales through the years. Claremont did lost more than 50% of his sales with X-Treme X-Men. Again this is FACTS, not perception.

Claremont, on a flagship book of the reload era :

May 2004
Uncanny X-Men #444 (First issue of Chris Claremont new run) : 112,207 copies sold

2 years later...

May 2006
Uncanny X-Men #473 (Chris Claremont finale issue) : 79,303 copies sold

To sum up,
- X-Treme X-Men lost more than 50 % of its readers in 3 years
- Uncanny X-Men lost around 30% of its readers in 2 years...

And yeah, yeah, it's all Morrison's fault...

[spirit2011]

I hope so, lol

The great things about numbers, is that they're real. Morrison did not lose half of his sales through the years. Claremont did lost more than 50% of his sales with X-Treme X-Men. Again this is FACTS, not perception.

Claremont, on a flagship book of the reload era :

May 2004
Uncanny X-Men #444 (First issue of Chris Claremont new run) : 112,207 copies sold

2 years later...

May 2006
Uncanny X-Men #473 (Chris Claremont finale issue) : 79,303 copies sold

To sum up,
- X-Treme X-Men lost more than 50 % of its readers in 3 years
- Uncanny X-Men lost around 30% of its readers in 2 years...

And yeah, yeah, it's all Morrison's fault...

nah numbers doesn't lie, but people can really manipulate them. Claremont just came back to uncanny to tell some story that the editors wanted.
This just help my point that after morrison x-men sales got worse. Before Morrison any uncanny with Claremont or davies would sell +100k

then how do you explain Claremont's X-treme selling about half of Morrison's numbers if he was so great in that era? Even Austen's book did better

It wasn't a flagship, simple like that

[franckd]

April 2006

Astonishing X-Men #14 (Whedon-Cassaday) : 119,546 copies sold.

Maybe the problem is neither Whedon, or Morrison...

The fact is Claremont lost more than 50% of X-Treme X-Men in 3 years, and with a flagship (Uncanny X-Men) he lost 30% in 2 years.

And the no flagship excuse is so funny. I mean, X-Treme X-Men had a really strong start with 135,216 copies sold. That's even amazing for a "non flagship" book.
yet, it has lost more than 50% of its readers and I think it has nothing to do with being or not a flagship. If readers really enjoyed the run, they'd would have stayed.

[spirit2011]

April 2006

Astonishing X-Men #14 (Whedon-Cassaday) : 119,546 copies sold.

Maybe the problem is neither Whedon, or Morrison...

Whedon came from the success of Buffy, the cult hit firefly. Of course he would have good sales

[franckd]

Whedon came from the success of Buffy, the cult hit firefly. Of course he would have good sales

And Claremont was supposed to be the X-Men God. Well, maybe not "God", but the one some x-fans see like a Messiah.
Yet, he has lost 30% of his readers on a flagship title.

Morrison also sold 120,000 copies... Which successful TV shows is he coming from?

nah numbers doesn't lie, but people can really manipulate them. Claremont just came back to uncanny to tell some story that the editors wanted.

And? What's your point?? Are you implying that the sales were bad because CC wasn't free to tell the stories he wanted???

[Havok83]

Whedon came from the success of Buffy, the cult hit firefly. Of course he would have good sales

You seem to have an excuse for everything that doesnt allign with your claims

[franckd]

Whedon came from the success of Buffy, the cult hit firefly. Of course he would have good sales

What are your explanations for Morrison's good sales? Oh, I forgot, you always say Morrison had bad sales with 120,000 copies sold average, yet CC with his 50-80,000 copies sold is a success.
And we're the ones manipulating the numbers...

[spirit2011]

You seem to have an excuse for everything that doesnt allign with your claims

more like I have facts, Marvel was expecting a 300k per month from Whedon

[franckd]

more like I have facts, Marvel was expecting a 300k per month from Whedon

Interesting. Link? Source?

[spirit2011]

And Claremont was supposed to be the X-Men God. Well, maybe not "God", but the one some x-fans see like a Messiah.
Yet, he has lost 30% of his readers on a flagship title.

Morrison also sold 120,000 copies... Which successful TV shows is he coming from?

you can't be the x-men god when all the editorial do is sabotage you. he should have been give the uncanny book, but they delegated him a 3rd rate book.

Morrison was writing the flagship book with some hype, but even then his sales were the same as claremont when he was writin x-men-uncanny

And? What's your point?? Are you implying that the sales were bad because CC wasn't free to tell the stories he wanted???

yes, it was clear that he wasn't head writer or even imortant to read his stories.

To break a bit about sales, what i want for Jean Grey:
1. stop being written by Hickman
2. get out of summers house
3 stop namor from using Phoenix by reclaiming it
4 guest star on some avengers issues
5 get out of Summers house

[Cruelrain]

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