Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Havok83]

True, I've known some good Cyclops fans who liked the classic boy scout version of him and hate what he's become, I suppose like Teen Cyke.

I always used to think X-Men fans would be more tolerant and less keen on adopting misogynistic and racist practices but that clearly isn't the case as Storm fans will also admit to. Haha, I love how they think they can get rid of Jean in the MCU like that's going to happen. Astonishing X-Men did have an adaptation in X-Men: The Last Stand and it was critically reviled. Nor was it loved enough to stand the test of time and get another adaptation, unlike the classic Dark Phoenix Saga.

I have no love for any X-Men run that belittled Jean and her legacy, especially when the writers so obviously feel that way.

The Last Stand wasnt panned bc of its source material

[whitecrown]

Jean will be recast for MCU. She will start out as Marvel Girl too. Disney is distancing itself from the Fox failures which should have ended with DOFP.

I wonder who play Jean this time? They say both Famke and Sophie are transgender posers, so I would like they get a real woman this time.

I’d love to see her eventually become the cosmic hero Phoenix too.

I don't even want to know who said this.

Famke did so well with what she was offered, never liked Sophie's Jean.

I hope the MCU casts a red head (at least with dyed hair) since it seems they have something against read heads in Hollywood

I adored Famke in the role...Sophie left a lot to be desired.

I don't mind if the Jean actress isn't a natural redhead but she definitely needs to have red hair onscreen. I'd love Saoirse Ronan because she's the most prolific up and coming actress and she auditioned for Rey in Star Wars who has a lot in common with Jean.

[whitecrown]

The Last Stand wasnt panned bc of its source material

Most fans and critics complained there was too much material in the film and they should have just focused on the Dark Phoenix storyline and ignored the Gifted cure storyline. Clearly Claremont's material was favored over Whedon's especially since it got a second chance. Everyone wanted a redo of Dark Phoenix, never heard anyone say they need to redo The Gifted cure storyline or adapt Dangerous or Breakworld.

[Cruelrain]

True, I've known some good Cyclops fans who liked the classic boy scout version of him and hate what he's become, I suppose like Teen Cyke.

I always used to think X-Men fans would be more tolerant and less keen on adopting misogynistic and racist practices but that clearly isn't the case as Storm fans will also admit to. Haha, I love how they think they can get rid of Jean in the MCU like that's going to happen. Astonishing X-Men did have an adaptation in X-Men: The Last Stand and it was critically reviled. Nor was it loved enough to stand the test of time and get another adaptation, unlike the classic Dark Phoenix Saga.

I have no love for any X-Men run that belittled Jean and her legacy, especially when the writers so obviously feel that way.

Also it's funny seeing them getting mad when Cyclops is despicted as a "loser" in their eyes and Logan as the cool boy (Some X-Men movies and animated shows)

[whitecrown]

Also it's funny seeing them getting mad when Cyclops is despicted as a "loser" in their eyes and Logan as the cool boy (Some X-Men movies and animated shows)

Especially since Captain America and Iron Man continued that dichotomy but people actually like Captain America and don't consider him a loser, Cyclops fans aside. Captain America is everything they wish their character was which explains the weird jealousy they have.

[spirit2011]

True, I've known some good Cyclops fans who liked the classic boy scout version of him and hate what he's become, I suppose like Teen Cyke.

I always used to think X-Men fans would be more tolerant and less keen on adopting misogynistic and racist practices but that clearly isn't the case as Storm fans will also admit to. Haha, I love how they think they can get rid of Jean in the MCU like that's going to happen. Astonishing X-Men did have an adaptation in X-Men: The Last Stand and it was critically reviled. Nor was it loved enough to stand the test of time and get another adaptation, unlike the classic Dark Phoenix Saga.

I have no love for any X-Men run that belittled Jean and her legacy, especially when the writers so obviously feel that way.

They probably think that movies are like comics, that the target public is men.
Feige has been diversifying a lot, like they have a very diverse line up right now. Put more spotlight on the female superheroes, the best x-men characters are woman, so I hope that storm, Jean, kitty and Rogue will get their due

[whitecrown]

They probably think that movies are like comics, that the target public is men.
Feige has been diversifying a lot, like they have a very diverse line up right now. Put more spotlight on the female superheroes, the best x-men characters are woman, so I hope that storm, Jean, kitty and Rogue will get their due

Storm and Jean are guaranteed from the very beginning. Rogue pretty much is as well although we probably won't see her until a sequel or Captain Marvel 2. Kitty I've heard they aren't that interested in because they might want to use Jubilee instead. They feel Jubilee has the advantage of being racially diverse and also a draw for 90s fans.

[Havok83]

Most fans and critics complained there was too much material in the film and they should have just focused on the Dark Phoenix storyline and ignored the Gifted cure storyline. Clearly Claremont's material was favored over Whedon's especially since it got a second chance. Everyone wanted a redo of Dark Phoenix, never heard anyone say they need to redo The Gifted cure storyline or adapt Dangerous or Breakworld.

The writing for the film wasnt good. The source material was fine. Fox did the DPS years later without having another plot and it still sucked. Its not like you would say the source material was bad there

[whitecrown]

The writing for the film wasnt good. The source material was fine. Fox did the DPS years later without having another plot and it still sucked. Its not like you would say the source material was bad there

You're missing my point. My point is that when Last Stand came out, people said the issue was that they didn't devote enough time to the Dark Phoenix storyline which felt like the B-Plot the way it was treated and too much time was dedicated to the cure storyline which they only tried to shoehorn in because of the sudden popularity of Gifted. Everyone said they should have scrapped the cure and left the focus on Jean.

So all these years later what story was it that fans and filmmakers wanted to revisit...was it Dark Phoenix or was it The Gifted's cure? Which storyline did everyone feel was essential to give another chance to because it needed to be captured on film and given its proper due? Whether that second chance was successful or not isn't the issue here, but the fact is that Dark Phoenix was given a second chance because that's the story people wanted revisited. Nobody was clamoring for a remake of the cure because it deserved to be better done after Last Stand.

[Havok83]

You're missing my point. My point is that when Last Stand came out, people said the issue was that they didn't devote enough time to the Dark Phoenix storyline which felt like the B-Plot the way it was treated and too much time was dedicated to the cure storyline which they only tried to shoehorn in because of the sudden popularity of Gifted. Everyone said they should have scrapped the cure and left the focus on Jean.

So all these years later what story was it that fans and filmmakers wanted to revisit...was it Dark Phoenix or was it The Gifted's cure? Which storyline did everyone feel was essential to give another chance to because it needed to be captured on film and given its proper due? Whether that second chance was successful or not isn't the issue here, but the fact is that Dark Phoenix was given a second chance because that's the story people wanted revisited. Nobody was clamoring for a remake of the cure because it deserved to be better done after Last Stand.

Dark Phoenix didnt happen bc people were clamoring for it. Singer notably never got to finish what he started in X-men 2 and he got that chance years later and it sucked. It was arguably the worst X-film released

[whitecrown]

Dark Phoenix didnt happen bc people were clamoring for it. Singer notably never got to finish what he started in X-men 2 and he got that chance years later and it sucked. It was arguably the worst X-film released

As I said before if you would be kind enough to pay attention, I'm not talking about the quality of Dark Phoenix. I'm talking about the very fact that it was made and given a second chance when Hollywood really only allows redoes and remake of super popular properties. Spider-Man for example who is so big that he was allowed three different versions in the span of less than 15 years. If there wasn't some sort of demand or interest in Dark Phoenix, the film would never have been made. Wolverine Origins was a huge flop and he's a huge character but did anybody ask or want to make a redo of his origin story?

I've said this before but notice how most X-Men adaptations are based off of Claremont's work, whether it's movies or TV shows. And the audacity of some fans who pretend that Claremont was nothing and Morrison or Whedon are superior storytellers. They only got the opportunity to do their stuff because Claremont was there first to create the foundation for them so a little more respect is due imo. Especially this nonsense that is being implied that Whedon's Gifted arc is better than The Dark Phoenix Saga.

[spirit2011]

Dark Phoenix didnt happen bc people were clamoring for it. Singer notably never got to finish what he started in X-men 2 and he got that chance years later and it sucked. It was arguably the worst X-film released

Singer didn't directed or had anything to do with dark phoenix

[whitecrown]

Singer didn't directed or had anything to do with dark phoenix

And to think we are accused of alternate facts and fake news lol. The gall of some.

[Havok83]

Singer didn't directed or had anything to do with dark phoenix

You are correct. He was removed from the project but the film happened bc he was setting up to do it

[whitecrown]

You are correct. He was removed from the project but the film happened bc he was setting up to do it

Which means they could have scrapped it if they wanted to but they clearly felt there was an importance to do this film. Where was this outpouring of love for Whedon's run to be immortalized in a film?