Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Will Evans]

I'm surprised at certain views shown in this thread. Some people seem to be upset at Jean trying new things sexually etc. In regards to it being OOC, I don't know if I agree. I personally know a few people who have begun open relationships after a while of being in traditional relationships (especially ones that have ended badly). And, I mean, Jean was dead for a while after her husband cheated on her with a team mate, I think it's safe to say that may change Jean's view on things. Although I personally would prefer she didn't stay with Scott, that is something that can be explored down the road. I also think that we have to make concessions regarding characters' personalities in this new era - there seemed to be a few months of a gap between Rosenberg's run and HoXPoX, so unfortunately we missed certain character beats/build ups (I'm okay with that because we've dove head first into a fascinating new era of X-Men comics).

I personally don't find it too weird that Jean would go polyamorous, simply because I know similar people who have made the same choice quite quickly, but also because the Krakoa era is pretty much being painted as "Summer of 69" (hehe) for mutants. Peace and Love, new beginnings, a new slate. Also, just because we've only SEEN Jean with Scott and Logan, it doesn't mean they're the only two she's with - hopefully she'll have her own ongoing comic at some point and everything can be explored! Just be patient and roll with it.

As long as it’s not Chuck and Mags

[spirit2011]

I'm surprised at certain views shown in this thread. Some people seem to be upset at Jean trying new things sexually etc. In regards to it being OOC, I don't know if I agree. I personally know a few people who have begun open relationships after a while of being in traditional relationships (especially ones that have ended badly). And, I mean, Jean was dead for a while after her husband cheated on her with a team mate, I think it's safe to say that may change Jean's view on things. Although I personally would prefer she didn't stay with Scott, that is something that can be explored down the road. I also think that we have to make concessions regarding characters' personalities in this new era - there seemed to be a few months of a gap between Rosenberg's run and HoXPoX, so unfortunately we missed certain character beats/build ups (I'm okay with that because we've dove head first into a fascinating new era of X-Men comics).

I personally don't find it too weird that Jean would go polyamorous, simply because I know similar people who have made the same choice quite quickly, but also because the Krakoa era is pretty much being painted as "Summer of 69" (hehe) for mutants. Peace and Love, new beginnings, a new slate. Also, just because we've only SEEN Jean with Scott and Logan, it doesn't mean they're the only two she's with - hopefully she'll have her own ongoing comic at some point and everything can be explored! Just be patient and roll with it.

I still want to know how being dead ou a husband cheating on her would change sexual preferences, it all seems like people are making mental gymnastics to make it viable.

I don't know anyone that made the decision to go poly, most people I known are single or in long term commited relationships.

so for me this is pure BS and out of character, doesn't matter what people do on real life. comics let it very clear that she was really into a mono relationship

Look at her facial expressions and the context. She wasnt angry and bitter bc she was now on the Emma hate train. She was clearly joking and trying to cheer Scott up.

She didnt need to be kind with Emma to reason with her, especially since she had already defeated her. Jean was showing compassion bc as an empath, she felt her pain and understood

You can continue to ignore whats in the scans or what was written today but it makes you look like in major denial. Its hard to have an actual discussion with someone that cant even admit what is in front of their face

she was very neutral and use a mean slang for fake blond.

i'm not ignoring anything else, I just calling out people believing there was a friendship were there was only a brief mentorship0;

if people believe that jean would be friend with someone that attempted to rape scott, they are dead wrong on Jean

Bingo!

When the idea of multiple partners for Jean/Scott came about I was worried about straigh male wish fulfillment/fantasy especially the idea of Wolverine and Scott "sharing" Jean. But you are correct that Jean had agency. She made her own choices throughout the issue. I think people get caught up in Scott/Jean and forget that so much has happened with this relationship. Scott is clearly still involved with Emma. Jean is clearly involved with Logan. We do not know how involved Scott and Jean are.

They are likely all involved with each other but it doesn't mean a standard romantic relationship. They choose each other when they want or need each other. On twitter or somewhere I read how Wolverine was abusive towards Jean but he only killed her in New X-men as a mercy kill. He killed her in Endsong because it was her idea.

Scott and Jean have used their powers on each other in X-factor. I think Jean tk'd him into a helicopter once (someone can correct me if I'm wrong but they got into it in early X-factor). No relationship is perfect and those of us who have been in long term relationships realize this. These "happy perfectly healthy" relationships are more fantasy than reality imo.

For em it is very sexist still. 2 guys sharing a woman is gross, specialy when say chaarcter can't have a reltionship outside of 2 guys.;

one sexually harassed her and the other cheated, that is very abusive

[Veitha]

Being in a polyamorous relationship is not a sexual preference, it's a choice. She's always been attracted to Logan.

Being dead, being part of the Phoenix, living in a deathless society makes you change your point of view faster than a human. You can't really compare a human perspective to the perspective of a character who's been merged with a cosmic being.

[AZPolaris]

Man, I'm glad this book was only four pages long. Can't stand QQ but I liked how he used his powers. Loved Dom using the Krakoan technology. I love White's colors but Guru killed it. Those QQ flower scenes. Obviously this was setting Sage up for more panel time. My main issue was with the swearing in the book. Not that it was there but that it was weird and vague. I am all for swearing and would rather they use the actual words and not edit them out. I can't stand it when I am not sure what the word is supposed to be.I especially want to know the word Domino used in the beginning of the story. Also, I found it odd that Jean swore so much. Yeah, when she is angry but not when she's in a hot tub with Logan. Unless it's dirty talk LOL

Edit- I just realized this is the Jean Grey thread and not the X-Force thread. That's why everyone is focusing on the end of the book. Duh, Aaron.

[spirit2011]

Being in a polyamorous relationship is not a sexual preference, it's a choice. She's always been attracted to Logan.

Being dead, being part of the Phoenix, living in a deathless society makes you change your point of view faster than a human. You can't really compare a human perspective to the perspective of a character who's been merged with a cosmic being.

choice =sexual preference

anh being dead rarely changes a character, as jean is dead and just come back.

Man, I'm glad this book was only four pages long. Can't stand QQ but I liked how he used his powers. Loved Dom using the Krakoan technology. I love White's colors but Guru killed it. Those QQ flower scenes. Obviously this was setting Sage up for more panel time. My main issue was with the swearing in the book. Not that it was there but that it was weird and vague. I am all for swearing and would rather they use the actual words and not edit them out. I can't stand it when I am not sure what the word is supposed to be.I especially want to know the word Domino used in the beginning of the story. Also, I found it odd that Jean swore so much. Yeah, when she is angry but not when she's in a hot tub with Logan. Unless it's dirty talk LOL

This is not a x-force review thread.

4 pages of bad writing do really a lot of talk.

it is a T+ book swearing should be acceptable

[Veitha]

choice =sexual preference

anh being dead rarely changes a character, as jean is dead and just come back.

Being dead and having been part of the Phoenix should change a character. As should not being able to die anymore.

Bad writing is not acknowledging it.

[spirit2011]

Being dead and having been part of the Phoenix should change a character. As should not being able to die anymore.

Bad writing is not acknowledging it.

Sure it changed jean, but sexually Jean always had her preferences and it never changed.

bad writing is twisting it to fit peopel sexual fantasies, that is fan service

[crimsontt]

choice =sexual preference

anh being dead rarely changes a character, as jean is dead and just come back.



This is not a x-force review thread.

4 pages of bad writing do really a lot of talk.

it is a T+ book swearing should be acceptable

Sexual preference is not choice.

Fun fact: a friend of mine is a classic marie sue and divorced 2 years ago to be with a friend she felt in love. Well, the man divorced from his wife as well. Shortly after, her boyfriend found himself still involved with his ex wife and the 3 of them are now living together and I have never seen her as happy as she is now, after she came out as polyamorous earlier this year

[Veitha]

Sure it changed jean, but sexually Jean always had her preferences and it never changed.

bad writing is twisting it to fit peopel sexual fantasies, that is fan service

She's always been attracted to Logan, what do you mean with sexual preferences. And how do you know that Jean's sexual preferences cannot change.

[superjosh]

choice =sexual preference

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a language/cultural thing. But in modern English vernacular, the term "sexual preference" is always connected to sexual orientation. And saying one's orientation is a choice is highly problematic and offensive and IMO hate speech.

I would encourage you to rethink the use of the phrase in that manner. It's totally up to you if you want to continue to use it this way, but it would also be totally understandable for people to label you ignorant if you did so.

[Kingdom X]

Sure it changed jean, but sexually Jean always had her preferences and it never changed.

bad writing is twisting it to fit peopel sexual fantasies, that is fan service

Can you post some scans of Logan sexual harassing Jean? Based on my understanding there was a mutual attraction (sometimes one-sided), but I’ve never heard it framed as sexual misconduct in the past.

[Jackraow21]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a language/cultural thing. But in modern English vernacular, the term "sexual preference" is always connected to sexual orientation. And saying one's orientation is a choice is highly problematic and offensive and IMO hate speech.

I would encourage you to rethink the use of the phrase in that manner. It's totally up to you if you want to continue to use it this way, but it would also be totally understandable for people to label you ignorant if you did so.

To him everyone else is offensive because they don’t agree that Emma and Logan are rapists and abusers, so this should be interesting...

[Veitha]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a language/cultural thing. But in modern English vernacular, the term "sexual preference" is always connected to sexual orientation. And saying one's orientation is a choice is highly problematic and offensive and IMO hate speech.

I would encourage you to rethink the use of the phrase in that manner. It's totally up to you if you want to continue to use it this way, but it would also be totally understandable for people to label you ignorant if you did so.

Yeah I'm confused because I thought it meant sexual orientation, but I think spirit means what kind of relationship they want to be in (monogamous or poly)

[taiedy]

Bingo!

When the idea of multiple partners for Jean/Scott came about I was worried about straigh male wish fulfillment/fantasy especially the idea of Wolverine and Scott "sharing" Jean. But you are correct that Jean had agency. She made her own choices throughout the issue. I think people get caught up in Scott/Jean and forget that so much has happened with this relationship. Scott is clearly still involved with Emma. Jean is clearly involved with Logan. We do not know how involved Scott and Jean are.

They are likely all involved with each other but it doesn't mean a standard romantic relationship. They choose each other when they want or need each other. On twitter or somewhere I read how Wolverine was abusive towards Jean but he only killed her in New X-men as a mercy kill. He killed her in Endsong because it was her idea.

Scott and Jean have used their powers on each other in X-factor. I think Jean tk'd him into a helicopter once (someone can correct me if I'm wrong but they got into it in early X-factor). No relationship is perfect and those of us who have been in long term relationships realize this. These "happy perfectly healthy" relationships are more fantasy than reality imo.

Hmmm. I do get what you are saying. Like I said if polyamory is someone's cup of tea, thats cool, but the progression or instance of a relationship has to be believable (and I know thats ironic given the X-Men is a soap opera). I definitely have issues with Jott, Jean, Scott, the whole love triangle whatever, but even I dont think the relationship between Scott and Jean was so on the rocks that they would so suddenly be in an open relationship just to make it a "healthier" one. I wouldn't call myself a shipper, but I do like seeing believable relationships. I've never understood why or how Jean has a bond with Wolverine much stronger than one with say Warren or Hank, but that's just me.

You are right tho but I've always like seeing strong marriages, it invokes a nice feeling in me and I guess I'm guilty of that. Note: strong =/ perfect. Plus, I've come to realise that strong marriages most often can't work in mainstream comics. I love the Supes-Lois, Reed-Susan marriage, (Peter-MJ maybe) and I kind of wished Scott and Jean were the equivalent for the X-Men even admist 60 years of X-Men retcons and drama. And drama sells, but this kind of drama puts a bitter taste in my mouth.

Sorry for the rant! Just my opinion!

[superjosh]

To him everyone else is offensive because they don’t agree that Emma and Logan are rapists and abusers, so this should be interesting...

Yeah, I've gathered lol

Yeah I'm confused because I thought it meant sexual orientation, but I think spirit means what kind of relationship they want to be in (monogamous or poly)

That's why I tried to respond carefully and precisely. It's up to them how they would like to continue.