Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[franckd]

The contradictions are starting to take a life of their own.

Will you feel offended if I say "I love you" lol
Thanks for the good laugh (no irony here) and thanks for making this thread funnier that it is right now.

[Will Evans]

How do you guys think Rachel feels about her mom boning Logan?

[Havok83]

They had chances, but jean never wanted. Even when she came back, she didn't care romantically about Logan.
Also he was never a really worth obstacle for jean and Scott.

rogue and gambit are a true couple, just like ororo/tchalla. they don't compare to one sided logan/jean.



She didn't, she was getting into eveyone thoughts and Logan asked her to stop before she even entered his thoughts. Agains this is a shipper projection, I read the issue and didn't found any flirting from Jean's part, again one sided crap from Logan.

She was in a committed relationship and later married. Logan was off limits and never a serious option bc she was taken.

And what about Magneto and Rogue? When they finally hooked up in legacy, it was pretty analagous to Jean/Logan. Both were attracted to each other and danced around it for years. Her relationship with Gambit ws one factor that kept that in check but once they were on the same team and single, they finally gave in. Its whats happened here with Jean nad Logan

How do you guys think Rachel feels about her mom boning Logan?

old Rachel would be upset but she's long since gotten over her mommy issues. I think she'll be fine especially since she lives in that house and knows the arrangement

[Triniking1234]

Did people make all these fusses and excuses when Logan and Ororo started sleeping together?

Why is Jean put on a pedestal?

1) This is the internet so yes, people complained about that too.

2) Fanboyism is bad.

[franckd]

he abuse and sexually assaulted her in the past, just for her giving in now is sexist. Of course for me as woman it is more personal because sexual assault is a reality and it shouldn't be romanticed this way,

for me there isn't agency when a charcter is being written. This was the same excuse being used when lobdell sexualized the hell out of Starfire.
This won't fly with me years ago and won't fly now



i'm seeing no contradictions

Of course you don't see contradictions.

By the way, I don't remember you being "that offended" when Logan was banging Jean in x-Men Forever.

[spirit2011]

She was in a committed relationship and later married. Logan was off limits and never a serious option bc she was taken.

And what about Magneto and Rogue? When they finally hooked up in legacy, it was pretty analagous to Jean/Logan. Both were attracted to each other and danced around it for years. Her relationship with Gambit ws one factor that kept that in check but once they were on the same team and single, they finally gave in. Its whats happened here with Jean nad Logan



old Rachel would be upset but she's long since gotten over her mommy issues. I think she'll be fine especially since she lives in that house and knows the arrangement

she wasn't in a relationship for many issues of X-factor and Logan wasn't even a thought for her. She could just end the relationship to start one with Logan if she was so attracted o him. Also on morrison run, she could ask divorce and go with Logan but she didn't do that.
it was a minor ponctual attraction, people just make it bigger because of movies and shippers

Of course you don't see contradictions.

By the way, I don't remember you being "that offended" when Logan was banging Jean in x-Men Forever.

Out of continuity AU
it also came out 12 years ago, why would i react now? LOL
I wasn't even reading comics at the time, so I neer really reacted to it

OMG peopel gonna ask me why I didn't wote letters to claremont against Logan assaulting jean? I was just a kid ok, I didn't read comics.

[franckd]

How do you guys think Rachel feels about her mom boning Logan?

Shhhhhh... She's just kissing him (on the peen?)

[Jack The Tripper]

They are creepy then but now more women are reading comics and they have more of a voice to inform the media. This is why many, many things in the past are seen more in a bad light now. This is why media makes progress and why Wolverine improved significantly over time. Characters being fiction aren't a reason to not disagree with them when they do something bad, these characters are role models and power fantasies to their fans. And not every character in those time periods was a creepy stalker, in those comics Jean absolutely loathed when he did things like that and occasionally she'd call him out on it. His romance was only his head for years before Jean showed some affection but it was never an actual "love triangle" - Jean and Scott had the romantic connections to each other. Wolverine was just a jealous outsider.

Fair point, but the moment it was retconned to be a mutual attraction it became something else in canon. I absolutely agree that female voices inform the media, but because of that the Wolverine we're looking at today is a different Wolverine than the 70s/80s. This in itself could be the reason why Jean is with him now - the man's changed (for real, it isn't an act) and now she finds him attractive. If he was still pestering her and being creepy and she just gave in to his requests THEN it would be a problematic/toxic pairing. However, both characters have grown and evolved over a few decades, and she has (as far as we know) made the choice herself, so this shouldn't be seen as a problem. It was written as her choice, she didn't relent just to appease him.

[franckd]

she wasn't in a relationship for many issues of X-factor and Logan wasn't even a thought for her. She could just end the relationship to start one with Logan if she was so attracted o him. Also on morrison run, she could ask divorce and go with Logan but she didn't do that.
it was a minor ponctual attraction, people just make it bigger because of movies and shippers



Out of continuity AU
it also came out 12 years ago, why would i react now? LOL
I wasn't even reading comics at the time, so I neer really reacted to it

Because if you're fair and honest (let us have that dream once) you'd say that CC making Logan kiss Jean twice during his first run, and banging in his alternate reality book, makes you dislike everything else he has written. But I guess shat this "rule" only applies for Morrison, Hickman, and Percy.

[spirit2011]

Fair point, but the moment it was retconned to be a mutual attraction it became something else in canon. I absolutely agree that female voices inform the media, but because of that the Wolverine we're looking at today is a different Wolverine than the 70s/80s. This in itself could be the reason why Jean is with him now - the man's changed (for real, it isn't an act) and now she finds him attractive. If he was still pestering her and being creepy and she just gave in to his requests THEN it would be a problematic/toxic pairing. However, both characters have grown and evolved over a few decades, and she has (as far as we know) made the choice herself, so this shouldn't be seen as a problem. It was written as her choice, she didn't relent just to appease him.

Wolverine continue to sexual assault women and he had a relationship with a teenager, people forgot squirrel girl

evolvedw oh hell no. it still doesn't make a good story to tell

Because if you're fair and honest (let us have that dream once) you'd say that CC making Logan kiss Jean twice during his first run, and banging in his alternate reality book, makes you dislike everything else he has written. But I guess shat this "rule" only applies for Morrison, Hickman, and Percy.

It is a out of continuity book. Also Claremont is a lot older, so yes he is problematic on his writing.

these guys are all a lot younger and still choose to write sexist tropes. there isn't a context to save them.

[franckd]

It is a out of continuity book. Also Claremont is a lot older, so yes he is problematic on his writing.

these guys are all a lot younger and still choose to write sexist tropes. there isn't a context to save them.

They are just respecting what canon is : Jean and Logan are attracted to each others. And kissed before. It's all CC's legacy here.
Anyway, the dream to have you fair and honest didn't last long : I mentioned the kisses in CC's original run.

[Devaishwarya]

My salted caramel Popcorn is delightful yummyliciousness.

[Marvelboy1974]

I don’t see Jean and Logan as romantic. To me it looks like it’s purely sexual. Sure I’m sure Jean loves Logan but not the way she loves Scott. It isn’t like she had an issue with Emma and Scott banging. Considering 3 of the 4 have been dead, that’s bound to evolve a person’s feelings when it comes to intimacy.

And I’m sure Rachel does give AF considering what she’s been doing with Nightcrawler these last few years.,

[Triniking1234]

Listen. This is a comic book. If you're gonna say stuff like "Logan sexually assaulted Groot" or "Logan boned Doreen"; post pages.

Also Bendis never followed the Squirrel Girl thing and left it vague.

[franckd]

My salted caramel Popcorn is delightful yummyliciousness.

You know, it's just a rerun of the same olds rants and denials. But enjoy your popcorn anyway lol
(Can I get some popcorn too by the way?)