Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

Now I seemed to realize the fact that X-Men was continually selling semi-monthly from February to March. Its kinda obvious that it would affect the sales.

bendis was shipping more than 2 books per month. This isn't a excuse for low sales.
Xmen 7 and 8 shipped in february, then x-men 8 and 9 shipped in march.
now i see that x-men 9 sold 70k and not 75k, issue 8 sold 75k

this isn't looking good for jean staring on X-men

[Vishop]

Again Bendis is overhyped even during ANX because he was writing Age of Ultron. Try next time because literally no one in CBR will accept the fact that Bendis is a better x-writer than Hickman

[spirit2011]

Again Bendis is overhyped even during ANX because he was writing Age of Ultron. Try next time because literally no one in CBR will accept the fact that Bendis is a better x-writer than Hickman

Hickman was even more overhyped, many didn't liked that a avengers writer and even worse the writer of house of M snap was going to write x-men.
Hickman was a huge deal taking over x-men

[SiegePerilous02]

So Jean is among my favorite X-Men, if not my favorite, and I'm reminded why I don't visit her appreciation thread that often lol.

This is all Claremont's fault over anyone else. He inflicted Jean/Logan on us because who could not Just Get The F*** Over It when it came to his dumb Scott/Maddie marriage being torpedoed by Jeans resurrection. So he either forgot what he wrote originally or just retconned it out of spite to get "Jean was always attracted to Logan above Scott."

It's always been stupid, but since other writers have run with it and it's made it into other media, nobody can reasonably claim it's OOC for Jean at this point to be attracted to Loan. Based on what I've seen in the latest issue (I'm trade waiting), this was actually executed pretty well. But it isn't a problem of Morriso, or Hickman or Percy's making, the blame for this can be laid squarely at Claremont's feet. Even then, their early interactions where Jean can't stand him are so few and minor that they've easily been eclipsed by what has come afterward, that they've become irrelevant to the franchise.

[spirit2011]

people can ignore that Claremont started Logan and Jean, a lot of writers ignored it because it doesn't has depth. It isn't a good excuse put the blame on Claremont for Percy/Hickman badly written story.

people blaming Carol rape on Claremont was laughable too. Dude become a puch bag to every bad story on x-men comics

[SiegePerilous02]

people can ignore that Claremont started Logan and Jean, a lot of writers ignored it because it doesn't has depth. It isn't a good excuse put the blame on Claremont for Percy/Hickman badly written story.

people blaming Carol rape on Claremont was laughable too. Dude become a puch bag to every bad story on x-men comics

Probably because this very thing you hate is explicitly his fault, but you also praise him over any of the others. Despite the fact that they aren't contradicting their own writing like he did (for a petty reason).

Not Carol though, he was doing damage control at that point.

[spirit2011]

Probably because this very thing you hate is explicitly his fault, but you also praise him over any of the others. Despite the fact that they aren't contradicting their own writing like he did (for a petty reason).

Not Carol though, he was doing damage control at that point.

I already talked like that, it was a mistake but he worked jean character mostly better than everyone else. he without doubt elevated the character.
Logan/jean was never big on his run despite the dumb retcon, majority of books doesn't even mention it.

[SiegePerilous02]

I already talked like that, it was a mistake but he worked jean character mostly better than everyone else. he without doubt elevated the character.
Logan/jean was never big on his run despite the dumb retcon, majority of books doesn't even mention it.

I loved how he wrote her in his first run (y'know, the good one), but even there he was pretty much done with her after the Phoenix saga. It's why even if she hadn't been killed off she was gonna be written out of the book. Not much he's done with her since then has been especially memorable. OG Claremont is #1 for most of the classic X-characters, but his various returns read like harmless but underwhelming fanfic (when they're not outright bad).

It seems to have been a pretty pervasive relationship in the 90s to the point where the love triangle is one of the most iconic aspects of the franchise. it making its ways into the cartoon and the movies reinforced this. Jean canonically has an attraction to Logan and there's not much we can do about it.

[spirit2011]

I loved how he wrote her in his first run (y'know, the good one), but even there he was pretty much done with her after the Phoenix saga. It's why even if she hadn't been killed off she was gonna be written out of the book. Not much he's done with her since then has been especially memorable. OG Claremont is #1 for most of the classic X-characters, but his various returns read like harmless but underwhelming fanfic (when they're not outright bad).

It seems to have been a pretty pervasive relationship in the 90s to the point where the love triangle is one of the most iconic aspects of the franchise. it making its ways into the cartoon and the movies reinforced this. Jean canonically has an attraction to Logan and there's not much we can do about it.

Claremont return have been less harmful that Morrison or Hickman. he also wrote jean as leader and having a plan.

90s triangle was mostly dead, yeah it was big on other media. What happen on comics can't even be a love triangle since it is mostly one sided. just a superficial attraction played for a moment of tension.

[superjosh]

Claremont return have been less harmful that Morrison or Hickman. he also wrote jean as leader and having a plan.

Claremont's return wasn't harmful because it had the impact of a fly landing. Story-wise, it was one of the biggest bomb/flops in X-Men history. And if you want to talk about people acting OOC, everyone was acting OOC. It was so stupid I could barely read it. How many issues did he last before they brought back Scott Lobdell? 9?

[spirit2011]

Claremont's return wasn't harmful because it had the impact of a fly landing. Story-wise, it was one of the biggest bomb/flops in X-Men history. And if you want to talk about people acting OOC, everyone was acting OOC. It was so stupid I could barely read it. How many issues did he last before they brought back Scott Lobdell? 9?

claremont second run sold as good as Morrison. so Morrison should be a flop too

[SiegePerilous02]

claremont second run sold as good as Morrison. so Morrison should be a flop too

I'm pretty sure other posters have provided sales numbers to indicate this isn't the case.

[superjosh]

claremont second run sold as good as Morrison. so Morrison should be a flop too

If you'll notice, I said story-wise. It was a creativity blackhole. Also, I wasn't even comparing to Morrison.

You're always looking at false equivalences. But if you DO want to compare his return to Morrison's... Morrison lasted about 40 issues and left on his own terms. I don't know why CC left his second run, but he lasted less than a year and Scott Lobdell came in to clean up his mess and basically tread water until Morrison arrived.

[spirit2011]

If you'll notice, I said story-wise. It was a creativity blackhole. Also, I wasn't even comparing to Morrison.

You're always looking at false equivalences. But if you DO want to compare his return to Morrison's... Morrison lasted about 40 issues and left on his own terms. I don't know why CC left his second run, but he lasted less than a year and Scott Lobdell came in to clean up his mess and basically tread water until Morrison arrived.

CC had to leave because Quesada wanted new writers. Basically that

[superjosh]

CC had to leave because Quesada wanted new writers. Basically that

But why wasn't he allowed to finish his run (Lobdell did)? I'm not attacking you or CC, I actually would like to know.