Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[mike7171]

Ugh, just read Empyre, X-Men#2. Would've been nice if Jean was the one front and center in the last page.

[Havok83]

Ugh, just read Empyre, X-Men#2. Would've been nice if Jean was the one front and center in the last page.

Its best she's not. Empyre has been a great chance to let the B and C listers that dont usually get shine, some actual focus. Magik is the most prominent X-man here but I like that others that have been severely underutilized have shown up with the bulk of the veteran X-men taking a back seat

[andreikes]

russell_dauterman_x-men_1_jean_grey_variant_cover.jpg

Interestingly, most of Jean's customs do not show the body. And that a good part of the customs of the other characters, nowadays, women do not show either. (Even Emma Frost). And nowadays there is a thing about not sexualizing ....

[johnnysv75]

Jean wanted to empower herself at the end of the 90s, by wearing the Phoenix costume. That was stopped by editors. In 2018 she wanted to see how powerful she could get now that she didn’t have to be afraid of turning into Dark Phoenix. That seems to have gone out the window as well.

Several times, Jean’s growth as a character has been stopped for different reasons. If there had been a vision to where her character should be, how she could grow, what could happen to her - what would you have liked to see her do and become?

If Seagle’s run hadn’t been interrupted, I would have loved to see her empower herself by wearing the Phoenix costume. Push her powers as far as she could, tapping into her unlimited potential. But not by any connection to the Phoenix force, but by tapping into her own telepathic and telekinetic powers.

I would have loved to see what she could do when she truly flexed her psi muscles. And I would like to think that by doing that she would like to tap into her ultimate potential in other areas as well - as a team leader, as a visionary for the future of mutantkind. Maybe we could have seen her become what she was in X-Men Red 10 or 15 years earlier, if Seagle’s story hadn’t been nixed.

It would have been so lovely to see an overarching storyline for Jean (as well as the other X-Men) that lasted several years.

[Harpsikord]

Got bored and made a pair of Phoenixes in Soul Calibur 6.

[franckd]

Just looked at the comics sales charts again for X-Men Red. The sales were pretty solid! If we compare with the DoX line, month by month, X-Men Red was in the same charts numbers.
I know, I'm vain. But it makes me feel better an sad at the same time. Better because I love that a team led by Jean could sell well. Sad, because the book was good, and Jean was a leader with a vision, and she had to step down to "Try harder Marvel Girl"...

Anyway, at least she is doing well in X-Force so far. So thank your Mr Percy.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Just looked at the comics sales charts again for X-Men Red. The sales were pretty solid! If we compare with the DoX line, month by month, X-Men Red was in the same charts numbers.
I know, I'm vain. But it makes me feel better an sad at the same time. Better because I love that a team led by Jean could sell well. Sad, because the book was good, and Jean was a leader with a vision, and she had to step down to "Try harder Marvel Girl"...

Anyway, at least she is doing well in X-Force so far. So thank your Mr Percy.

Yep, it's actually not too far off. And that's without Hickman hype.

[Harpsikord]

Yep, it's actually not too far off. And that's without Hickman hype.

Now imagine if it had been during an era when the X-Books were actually being pushed and advertised properly and Red had been pushed as a proper flagship.

Can you say powerhouse?

[WallStreeter]

Just looked at the comics sales charts again for X-Men Red. The sales were pretty solid! If we compare with the DoX line, month by month, X-Men Red was in the same charts numbers.
I know, I'm vain. But it makes me feel better an sad at the same time. Better because I love that a team led by Jean could sell well. Sad, because the book was good, and Jean was a leader with a vision, and she had to step down to "Try harder Marvel Girl"...

Anyway, at least she is doing well in X-Force so far. So thank your Mr Percy.

XMen Red with Jean has team leader had to be canceled because the concept of the XMen had become dated and stale and Disney completed the Fox merger. To recover from the disastrously bad Fox movies and from declining comic book sales mutants has to read rebooted. So Hickman’s focus was on rebooting mutants which is why Jean had to back to the background temporarily.

Fans of characters sometimes take things too personally. Jean is amazing in X-Force and was amazing in the one shot where she and Emma Frost rescue Storm.

[WallStreeter]

Jean wanted to empower herself at the end of the 90s, by wearing the Phoenix costume. That was stopped by editors. In 2018 she wanted to see how powerful she could get now that she didn’t have to be afraid of turning into Dark Phoenix. That seems to have gone out the window as well.

Several times, Jean’s growth as a character has been stopped for different reasons. If there had been a vision to where her character should be, how she could grow, what could happen to her - what would you have liked to see her do and become?

If Seagle’s run hadn’t been interrupted, I would have loved to see her empower herself by wearing the Phoenix costume. Push her powers as far as she could, tapping into her unlimited potential. But not by any connection to the Phoenix force, but by tapping into her own telepathic and telekinetic powers.

I would have loved to see what she could do when she truly flexed her psi muscles. And I would like to think that by doing that she would like to tap into her ultimate potential in other areas as well - as a team leader, as a visionary for the future of mutantkind. Maybe we could have seen her become what she was in X-Men Red 10 or 15 years earlier, if Seagle’s story hadn’t been nixed.

It would have been so lovely to see an overarching storyline for Jean (as well as the other X-Men) that lasted several years.

She seems pretty powerful in Xforce and in the Jean and Emma one shot with Storm. Psychic rescue of Storm, resurrecting Cavier without wearing the Cerebro helmet, atomizing plant men without a thought Nd using her psychic absorbtion power to add Sage and Black Tom’s powers to her own to remove the teleflorics from those people.

[johnnysv75]

She seems pretty powerful in Xforce and in the Jean and Emma one shot with Storm. Psychic rescue of Storm, resurrecting Cavier without wearing the Cerebro helmet, atomizing plant men without a thought Nd using her psychic absorbtion power to add Sage and Black Tom’s powers to her own to remove the teleflorics from those people.

Yes, she is powerful in X-Force. What I meant was, what could have happened to her character if she hadn’t taken one step forwards and several steps back in her character development the past 25 years or so. Imagine if there could have been an overarching storyline for her. If she could have empowered herself at the end of the 90s, if that hadn’t been taken from her. I think we would have seen her do great things, and I think the X-books could have gone in an interesting direction back then with Jean taking an active role as a leader and as a true powerhouse.

[WallStreeter]

Yes, she is powerful in X-Force. What I meant was, what could have happened to her character if she hadn’t taken one step forwards and several steps back in her character development the past 25 years or so. Imagine if there could have been an overarching storyline for her. If she could have empowered herself at the end of the 90s, if that hadn’t been taken from her. I think we would have seen her do great things, and I think the X-books could have gone in an interesting direction back then with Jean taking an active role as a leader and as a true powerhouse.

Definitely it would have been great if she could have remained powered in the 90s. You had a lot of misogyny then in comics and film and at times female characters got shifted big. Social justice movements are changing that. Captain Marvel and Wonder Womsm did well at the box office. That opened the door for Black Widow films and the Scarlet Witch tv show. So it helps out Jean in the long run.

[WallStreeter]

Bendis and Hickman rebooted Jean’s character. And boy did she need it.

Outside of the Phoenix she was just Cyclops wife.

Bendis made Jeen more interesting by focusing more on her friendship and rivalries with other people. Jeen has rivalry issues with Quentin and the Cuckoos. Kitty became a mentor to Jean. More interestingly, Emma Frost became her telepathic instructor. Two women were able to focus on each other and not fight over a man.

Hickman carries that over to Jean and Emma being friends, especially now that Jean also sees Wolverine and before that she had a fling with Bishop. We see Jean full on as the mother to Rachel and Nate. She loves her children. She’s on the quiet council. She’s still good friends with Storm. It was Jean who convinced the council thst murder of humans was a serious crim because they cannot come back and even the former villains on the quiet council agreed with that. So she’s an effective leader.

She has also done intelligence and field operations for X-Force.

The 90s I felt it may have been good they ended her push because there was too much focus on her romantic love with Scott to the point where she had little life.

[Harpsikord]

I don't think Jean's character needed to be rebooted and I definitely don't feel like Hickman is the one that did it at all. There was nothing wrong with Jean as she was at the end of Grant Morrison's run, large and in charge of the mansion as well as just being pretty badass. Bendis did reboot the idea with teen Jean, and then that continued with Bunn and then later Tom Taylor.

Hickman's Jean has been very disappointing all things considered. In House of X we saw her being frightened by the sentinels and then killed and otherwise we've seen her playing housewife in the Summer House. There was a moment in X-Men 9 that wasn't bad, but it still wasn't all that interesting especially when you compare it to the things that she was doing in both Red and the Decimation era of X-Men.

X-Force has been good for her, but you absolutely can't credit that to Hickman. That's all been Benjamin Percy.

And for that matter most people didn't like what Bendis did with Jean either. If we're going to be giving anyone credit for 'rebooting' the character it needs to be to Tom Taylor and Cullen Bunn, not anyone else.

[Thirteen]

There was nothing wrong with Jean as she was at the end of Grant Morrison's run, large and in charge of the mansion as well as just being pretty badass.

Also DEAD.
Regardless of intentions for where that would lead, Jean was dead at the end of Morrison’s run.