Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[franckd]

Morrison's run is amazing imo. It can be read on many levels. As I pointed out once, imo it's also a metaphor of the industry. Sublime being the publishers who refuse evolution. I don't have the energy to develop my theory, but imo, Jean was a kind of metaphor of Morrison himself :



Jean Grey :"Did I have to fix something that was dying?" = Morrison was hired by Marvel because he was supposed to fix a damaged franchise, in a dying industry.
"The badly wounded orphan universe" = the X-men universe.
"It lost its parents when unity broke out across the mega system" = It lost its writers and artists because of disagreements in the publishing offices.

Editing to add a few points :

- Many times, Jean said things like "if I can think about it, I can make it real" = who can think about something and make it real ? God. In the comic industry, who make ideas and thoughts "real" : a writer. A writer is the "god", the creator of the story and the characters he writes about. He can kill them, he can decide about their fate. Again, Jean = Morrison.

- When Jean was resurrected after being mercy-killed by Logan, as they were headed to the sun, Jean said she didn't know how long they would allow her to stay. Who are those mysterious "they"? Can it be the publishers? It's an important point. think about it : who didn't stay? Jean and Morrison.

- When Jean meets Quentin in the WHR, he tells her "If you want to grow a future to replace the one you cut away, you have to water it with your heart's blood, they said. And they said I was to tell you to hurry" = Publishers asked Morrison to change the direction of the X-Men book, and they asked him to do it with with his heart, his sincerity, his integrity. But they won't allow writers to take time to get results : they want fast results. They don't let writers grow a real better future for the story/the x-Men universe.

- About Sublime being the publishers : Sublime is a very old sentient bacteria who wants to replaces mutants. Mutants are evolution. Mutants are new ideas, new concepts. Sublime/the publishers want to replace new ideas by their old ideas.

You are free to agree or disagree with me of course. It's the beauty of interpretation.

[andreikes]

I agree that I had hard time to recognize Jean, under Hickman.
But to be fair with Jonathan Hickman, he also killed Monet, Warren, Kurt, Scott, Logan and so on ;-)

It also comforts me ... Hahaha. But, cyke, wolvie, Kurt and Monet die looking like heroes who don't fear death ... Jean looked scared, unsure ... As if it were the first mission. Then in x force he says that he does not fear death .... Complex

[franckd]

Yeah that's reverse sexism you're making some points.

Yes he's making some point. What he said can mean that a writer will make an extreme decision - like it or not - to kill a character (male or female, it doesn't matter) in favor of what he thinks might be better for the story. Not that I agree with that.

But what it means is that it has (maybe) nothing to do with misogyny or sexism.

It also comforts me ... Hahaha. But, cyke, wolvie, Kurt and Monet die looking like heroes who don't fear death ... Jean looked scared, unsure ... As if it were the first mission. Then in x force he says that he does not fear death .... Complex

Yes, but the others weren’t scared children when they died, like Jean was. Jean, who has challenged death so many times for the ones she loves.

I agree with both of you. And I shared the same feeling when HoX came out. I didn't recognize Jean and thought she was OOC.

[Soulsword323]

I have to disagree in regards to Hickman's Jean. While she is clearly not a priority for him (that doesn't imply he hates her), and I don't think he's one of her better writers, I find it hard to say she was OOC. It's clear he understands some core elements to the character, even if I wasn't fond of everything that happened in HoX. The only thing that really bothered me was her dialogue with M, and I wish it had been more of not wanting to leave her behind, as opposed to needing M's assistance.

[franckd]

I have to disagree in regards to Hickman's Jean. While she is clearly not a priority for him (that doesn't imply he hates her), and I don't think he's one of her better writers, I find it hard to say she was OOC. It's clear he understands some core elements to the character, even if I wasn't fond of everything that happened in HoX. The only thing that really bothered me was her dialogue with M, and I wish it had been more of not wanting to leave her behind, as opposed to needing M's assistance.

it seems we won't agree on this. Which is not a problem at all. Many times I praised Hickman as a great writer, having amazing concepts, a vision, a direction. I also said how much I deeply loved HoX/PoX. But as a very longtime Jean fan, I can say she was never afraid to die (except once, during Casey's run. And at the time, many readers thought it was OOC)... So his Jean really felt off for me.

[andreikes]

It makes me a little jealous to see Emma appearing in several magazines and so strongly and independently
viuv1mo3a7241.jpg

[johnnysv75]

I have to disagree in regards to Hickman's Jean. While she is clearly not a priority for him (that doesn't imply he hates her), and I don't think he's one of her better writers, I find it hard to say she was OOC. It's clear he understands some core elements to the character, even if I wasn't fond of everything that happened in HoX. The only thing that really bothered me was her dialogue with M, and I wish it had been more of not wanting to leave her behind, as opposed to needing M's assistance.

In Uncanny X-Men 99 from 1976 Jean sacrificed herself for her beloved X-Men. She was alone against the greatest odds an X-Man has faced. Defiant. Brave. Loving. Powerful.
In 2019, 43 years later, Hickman has Jean crying, afraid of dying and afraid of being alone.
It is so sad that a female character was written better 43 years ago. And Claremont would never have started the freethethighs hashtag - no matter if it was a ”joke” or not.

[Soulsword323]

it seems we won't agree on this. Which is not a problem at all. Many times I praised Hickman as a great writer, having amazing concepts, a vision, a direction. I also said how much I deeply loved HoX/PoX. But as a very longtime Jean fan, I can say she was never afraid to die (except once, during Casey's run. And at the time, many readers thought it was OOC)... So his Jean really felt off for me.

It's cool. I understand why people don't like his writing for her.

In Uncanny X-Men 99 from 1976 Jean sacrificed herself for her beloved X-Men. She was alone against the greatest odds an X-Man has faced. Defiant. Brave. Loving. Powerful.
In 2019, 43 years later, Hickman has Jean crying, afraid of dying and afraid of being alone.
It is so sad that a female character was written better 43 years ago. And Claremont would never have started the freethethighs hashtag - no matter if it was a ”joke” or not.

In House of X, Jean was injured, mentally connected to the other X-Men as they died, and was projecting her mind towards earth. Jean hadn't gone through any of that before piloting the space shuttle. It's two different scenarios.

[franckd]

It's cool. I understand why people don't like his writing for her.

Thanks. On a positive note, I think his Jean is getting better. So I really keep faith.

[darewithpeace]

It makes me a little jealous to see Emma appearing in several magazines and so strongly and independently
viuv1mo3a7241.jpg

me too, she is in every x men comic this days

[Soulsword323]

Thanks. On a positive note, I think his Jean is getting better. So I really keep faith.

The Quiet Council scene has definitely been the highlight of his writing for Jean, but it's clear he excels when writing characters like Emma, Mystique, and Moira. Perhaps he'll do more with Jean's character in the future, and she'll get more of a chance to shine.

[Harpsikord]

He can write characters like Jean well. I remember his Sue in his Fantastic Four run being well-written, and it's not like there's a lack of interest for Jean. We know that he originally intended for Teen Jean to be on the arc before editorial poo-poo'd that. (Thanks, Perlmutter)

Ultimately Jean was fine but not focused on in the most recent issues of X-Men that she appeared in. The problem is that she just absolutely did not fit the role he had for her in House of X. It should've been another, younger telepath like maybe one of the Stepford Cuckoos or even, like, Karma. Jean should've been the one running things from home if Hickman wanted to display her omega level telepathy.

[MechaJeanix]

I think Hickman did fairly well with Jean in his book during the brood story. Sure she didn't do a whole lot but it wasn't bad. She coordinated with other telepaths (we were told but didn't see it), we saw her levitate a Brood, and we saw her convey information to Cyclops. In the next issue we saw her convey information to Cyclops from the brood as well as fight brood (though you couldn't tell what she was doing or which power she was using - it was just generic blasting I guess). She was used for exposition mostly. Neither were great showings but they weren't necessarily bad moments. Just kind of "eh".

House of X 4 left a bad taste in most of our mouths that is for sure. Hickman did well with Jean in the rest of House of X in my opinion (the first issue when she's introduced and taking students to the island, as well as the fifth issue where she is resurrected and the last issue with the QC meeting). For me Hickman has been uneven with Jean. Her scenes in X-men 3 weren't that great (the catty exchange with Emma over shoes.. yikes). Maybe he hasn't found her voice yet or he doesn't have a story for her at the moment. Luckily Percy does great with the character. I do wish she had more screen time in X-force but it is a big cast.

In X-force we do know that Jean believes in Krakoa and the promise of Krakoa. She believes in what they are doing and knows the nation has to be protected. She believes in the resurrection process. She is essentially Xavier's back-up. He uses cerebro to put the minds back in the mutants but if he's dead Jean is there to bring him back. We know she is conflicted about X-force's actions. She wants to be a hero, but she is also capable of making hard choices even though she doesn't like it. She is getting characterization and attention in this book and it looks like she is on a journey (especially if she continues to be featured in X-force after she quit).

Since Hickman is the "big name" on the books I do want him to use her more and use her well.

[Havok83]

Can we please move on from House of X #4? Jeez. She's had one bad showing during the current era but some fans want to let that define her when we are a year post that issue and she's been written quite well. 2020 has most certainly been better than 2019 but some fans should probably realize that and move on already

[SiegePerilous02]

I have to disagree in regards to Hickman's Jean. While she is clearly not a priority for him (that doesn't imply he hates her), and I don't think he's one of her better writers, I find it hard to say she was OOC. It's clear he understands some core elements to the character, even if I wasn't fond of everything that happened in HoX. The only thing that really bothered me was her dialogue with M, and I wish it had been more of not wanting to leave her behind, as opposed to needing M's assistance.

I've always interpreted that to be her actual intent. Jean doesn't want to leave M to die and is thinking of some random excuse for her to come with her. Monet calls her bluff and sends her away, and then she pretty much proves it was a lie because she clearly doesn't need Monet's help keeping the link open.

I'm not wild about HoX #4. As an intro to Hickman's era, it is certainly nowhere near as good as Germ Free Generation and the rest of Morrison's Cassandra Nova arc was. But it's really the only notably iffy thing to come out of this era for her so far, IMO. She has been fine in all of other Hickman's scenes for her and she has been excelling elsewhere in this era (X-Force and the one shot with Emma). Her appearances in the main X-Men book haven't been offensive at all.

Can we please move on from House of X #4? Jeez. She's had one bad showing during the current era but some fans want to let that define her when we are a year post that issue and she's been written quite well. 2020 has most certainly been better than 2019 but some fans should probably realize that and move on already

And missed this as I was posting this lol.