Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Soulsword323]

I'm glad Professor X offered Jean her seat back. I was annoyed that he voted against her in the last issue (even if I understand the reasoning). While I still would have liked Jean on the Council, I'm glad she got to make the choice for herself this time, and not be forced out.

Also, love that she's calling him Charles again. <3

[Gray Lensman]

I really love the fact that Jean's doing this without wanting or needing Scott's permission like everyone tries to boil it down to. She's had so much agency in the past two issues of the X-Men title that it's insane compared to how Hickman wrote her in House of X. That's more important to me than her getting all sort of power feats, but those would be nice too.

I'd also like it if Jean ended up leading the actual X-Men team because Scott needs to be the Captain Commander but that might be a pipe dream.

That is a good idea even if Hickman doesn't go with that route.

[Celestialbodies]

There isn't much to talk about or have thoughts about as far as Jean specifically. The issue repeats her last appearance, saying again that she is not on the council and will be a member of Cyclops' X-Men.

The most interesting thing about the issue for me were the Akkari Omega Level mutants and especially Isca. Jean was pretty by the book nothing that stands out and no real introspection from her. I hear her words but there's no passion or conviction behind them for me.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

The most interesting thing about the issue for me were the Akkari Omega Level mutants and especially Isca. Jean was pretty by the book nothing that stands out and no real introspection from her. I hear her words but there's no passion or conviction behind them for me.

Her conviction and power and uniqueness as a character are not in anything about her per se, but in her belief in Cyclops and his convictions. She is going to be there with him as his team comes together. That's the important thing Hickman needs us to know about her.

[Harpsikord]

Her conviction and power and uniqueness as a character are not in anything about her per se, but in her belief in Cyclops and his convictions. She is going to be there with him as his team comes together. That's the important thing Hickman needs us to know about her.

I don't think anything about the narrative has told us that though, it's pure conjecture of fans' thinking that Jean has to be subservient to Cyclops if they're together which isn't and never really has been the truth. It's a really sexist take informed by... practically nothing that we've seen in the entire era.

It's more likely that Jean and Scott came to this decision either together as a couple because that's how being partnered with someone works, or they individually came to the same decision. When Erik addresses Jean and Scott about if they've found anyone for their team Scott's the one who answers the question but it's drawn to very explicitly show that he's addressing them both; they both explain that they're going to be putting it to a vote, and before that it's Jean who explains what's important about the X-Men and why they've made that decision. And in the past, Scott's been the one more often shown as a homemaker, making lunches and stuff like that. Not Jean. One issue of her asking her son to set the table and people think that she's just a housewife or something now. No. I'm tired of that.

I also think that it's really funny that people seem to think that just because a character is in a relationship that they inherently have to be worse or subservient or lesser either in general or to / with their partners. That's not how a relationship works and I think that Hickman is aware of that. He spent his entire Fantastic Four run building up Sue, and while he hasn't focused overly much on many female characters yet I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with Jean. She's not weaker or lesser for being in a relationship and making decisions with her partner and she hasn't been shown to be subservient to him.

I understand that a lot of you don't like Jott as a relationship for reasons that I'm not going to invalidate just because I feel differently. But this narrative that Jean is a worse character because of it or that Hickman hates her or that all she is, is a housewife or a telephone or what the hell ever has to stop. Frankly, the more the fans push that narrative the more likely it is to become true within the books themselves.

[Brian M.]

I don't think anything about the narrative has told us that though, it's pure conjecture of fans' thinking that Jean has to be subservient to Cyclops if they're together which isn't and never really has been the truth. It's a really sexist take informed by... practically nothing that we've seen in the entire era.

It's more likely that Jean and Scott came to this decision either together as a couple because that's how being partnered with someone works, or they individually came to the same decision. When Erik addresses Jean and Scott about if they've found anyone for their team Scott's the one who answers the question but it's drawn to very explicitly show that he's addressing them both; they both explain that they're going to be putting it to a vote, and before that it's Jean who explains what's important about the X-Men and why they've made that decision. And in the past, Scott's been the one more often shown as a homemaker, making lunches and stuff like that. Not Jean. One issue of her asking her son to set the table and people think that she's just a housewife or something now. No. I'm tired of that.

I also think that it's really funny that people seem to think that just because a character is in a relationship that they inherently have to be worse or subservient or lesser either in general or to / with their partners. That's not how a relationship works and I think that Hickman is aware of that. He spent his entire Fantastic Four run building up Sue, and while he hasn't focused overly much on many female characters yet I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with Jean. She's not weaker or lesser for being in a relationship and making decisions with her partner and she hasn't been shown to be subservient to him.

I understand that a lot of you don't like Jott as a relationship for reasons that I'm not going to invalidate just because I feel differently. But this narrative that Jean is a worse character because of it or that Hickman hates her or that all she is, is a housewife or a telephone or what the hell ever has to stop. Frankly, the more the fans push that narrative the more likely it is to become true within the books themselves.

I agree with this 100%. Everything I've been reading lately, it's Jean and Scott making decisions together, nothing seems to point to her just following Scott's coat tails.

[Rang10]

Her conviction and power and uniqueness as a character are not in anything about her per se, but in her belief in Cyclops and his convictions. She is going to be there with him as his team comes together. That's the important thing Hickman needs us to know about her.

This is totally a downgrade from X-men Red. I had lots of stigma with Jean before it and the book won me. A lots of people also started to like Jean with the red book.
Scott dictate some random rules and she follow it. If this era is serious about developing Jean, Hickman would do a gold/blue with Jean leading her own team on a Uncanny spin-off

[Havok83]

I don't think anything about the narrative has told us that though, it's pure conjecture of fans' thinking that Jean has to be subservient to Cyclops if they're together which isn't and never really has been the truth. It's a really sexist take informed by... practically nothing that we've seen in the entire era.

It's more likely that Jean and Scott came to this decision either together as a couple because that's how being partnered with someone works, or they individually came to the same decision. When Erik addresses Jean and Scott about if they've found anyone for their team Scott's the one who answers the question but it's drawn to very explicitly show that he's addressing them both; they both explain that they're going to be putting it to a vote, and before that it's Jean who explains what's important about the X-Men and why they've made that decision. And in the past, Scott's been the one more often shown as a homemaker, making lunches and stuff like that. Not Jean. One issue of her asking her son to set the table and people think that she's just a housewife or something now. No. I'm tired of that.

I also think that it's really funny that people seem to think that just because a character is in a relationship that they inherently have to be worse or subservient or lesser either in general or to / with their partners. That's not how a relationship works and I think that Hickman is aware of that. He spent his entire Fantastic Four run building up Sue, and while he hasn't focused overly much on many female characters yet I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with Jean. She's not weaker or lesser for being in a relationship and making decisions with her partner and she hasn't been shown to be subservient to him.

I understand that a lot of you don't like Jott as a relationship for reasons that I'm not going to invalidate just because I feel differently. But this narrative that Jean is a worse character because of it or that Hickman hates her or that all she is, is a housewife or a telephone or what the hell ever has to stop. Frankly, the more the fans push that narrative the more likely it is to become true within the books themselves.

IA. This is the healthiest Jean and Scott have been depicted to be since the mid 90s. They are true equals and the stuff since XOS has made me hopeful for both of them as individuals and as a couple

[Peanutsinspace]

I don't think anything about the narrative has told us that though, it's pure conjecture of fans' thinking that Jean has to be subservient to Cyclops if they're together which isn't and never really has been the truth. It's a really sexist take informed by... practically nothing that we've seen in the entire era.

It's more likely that Jean and Scott came to this decision either together as a couple because that's how being partnered with someone works, or they individually came to the same decision. When Erik addresses Jean and Scott about if they've found anyone for their team Scott's the one who answers the question but it's drawn to very explicitly show that he's addressing them both; they both explain that they're going to be putting it to a vote, and before that it's Jean who explains what's important about the X-Men and why they've made that decision. And in the past, Scott's been the one more often shown as a homemaker, making lunches and stuff like that. Not Jean. One issue of her asking her son to set the table and people think that she's just a housewife or something now. No. I'm tired of that.

I also think that it's really funny that people seem to think that just because a character is in a relationship that they inherently have to be worse or subservient or lesser either in general or to / with their partners. That's not how a relationship works and I think that Hickman is aware of that. He spent his entire Fantastic Four run building up Sue, and while he hasn't focused overly much on many female characters yet I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with Jean. She's not weaker or lesser for being in a relationship and making decisions with her partner and she hasn't been shown to be subservient to him.

I understand that a lot of you don't like Jott as a relationship for reasons that I'm not going to invalidate just because I feel differently. But this narrative that Jean is a worse character because of it or that Hickman hates her or that all she is, is a housewife or a telephone or what the hell ever has to stop. Frankly, the more the fans push that narrative the more likely it is to become true within the books themselves.

Someone with sense get it! I couldn't have said it better myself!

[Rang10]

Hickman is smart, he discovered that he doesn't need to write for Jean if he puts her and Scott together.

not different from Tini, that gave Betsy the Captain Britain mantle to omesate for a lack of her own story arc

[Harpsikord]

Hickman is smart, he discovered that he doesn't need to write for Jean if he puts her and Scott together.

not different from Tini, that gave Betsy the Captain Britain mantle to omesate for a lack of her own story arc

But neither of these things are true lol. I think Hickman is well aware that Scott and Jean don't need to be written together - it was probably his idea to put her in X-Force.

Also... Being Captain Britain now is Betsy's story. There were other places they could've gone with her, but because of Kwannon this was the best route. Also? It wasn't Tini's idea. Tini was given Captain Britain and Excalibur. It was editorial that wanted it.

[Rang10]

But neither of these things are true lol. I think Hickman is well aware that Scott and Jean don't need to be written together - it was probably his idea to put her in X-Force.

Also... Being Captain Britain now is Betsy's story. There were other places they could've gone with her, but because of Kwannon this was the best route. Also? It wasn't Tini's idea. Tini was given Captain Britain and Excalibur. It was editorial that wanted it.

Im pretty sure that it was Ben Percy that called dibs on Jean. Of course he knows they don't need to be together but putting Jean together with Scott makes easy on the critics that he isn't writing Jean properly. So you appeal to shippers and suddenly everything is alright.

Don't mind me much,it is just that it kicked some nostalgia on me.

It wasn't Tini idea, but she used it to distract of the heavy focus on Apocaypse/Rictor. The book got a lot better

[Havok83]

Im pretty sure that it was Ben Percy that called dibs on Jean. Of course he knows they don't need to be together but putting Jean together with Scott makes easy on the critics that he isn't writing Jean properly. So you appeal to shippers and suddenly everything is alright.

Don't mind me much,it is just that it kicked some nostalgia on me.

It wasn't Tini idea, but she used it to distract of the heavy focus on Apocaypse/Rictor. The book got a lot better

Jean and Scott have been written separately for the past 16 years. It will be refreshing seeing them back in the same ongoing title and in a healthy place bc its been 23 years since we got that. I look forward to the book that presumably will launch their new X-men team

the focus on Apocalypse was to build up to XoS and now he's gone. Whether one likes it or not, there was a payoff to that and with his arc on pause, she now has to focus on others, which she is doing right now with the current Betsy focused arc

[Harpsikord]

Im pretty sure that it was Ben Percy that called dibs on Jean. Of course he knows they don't need to be together but putting Jean together with Scott makes easy on the critics that he isn't writing Jean properly. So you appeal to shippers and suddenly everything is alright.

Early on Hickman said that he built the foundations of a lot of the teams. He very strategically placed the characters that were in the original line where he needed or wanted them to be. I don't think Jean is any different, personally.

[Rang10]

Early on Hickman said that he built the foundations of a lot of the teams. He very strategically placed the characters that were in the original line where he needed or wanted them to be. I don't think Jean is any different, personally.

Hickman says a lot of things and I simply don't see it.

Jean and Scott have been written separately for the past 16 years. It will be refreshing seeing them back in the same ongoing title and in a healthy place bc its been 23 years since we got that. I look forward to the book that presumably will launch their new X-men team

the focus on Apocalypse was to build up to XoS and now he's gone. Whether one likes it or not, there was a payoff to that and with his arc on pause, she now has to focus on others, which she is doing right now with the current Betsy focused arc

Only refreshing for shippers, people who got used to see Jean doing things alone this is a hidrance.

You can focus on a character while develop the rest. In the end most of Apocalypse personal story was made in the X-men book and not on Excalibur