Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[johnnysv75]

Have now read House of X/Powers of X, X-Men 1, X-Force 1-6 and Giant Size X-Men: Jean Grey + Emma Frost. Something is ... off. Jean Grey is stated to be an Omega telepath at the same time as she is underutilized in HoX/PoX. She behaves like a teenaged girl in some of the issues. And then in X-Men 1 she behaves like a housewife.
Hickman seems to have done his research. He seems to know his X-Men history and he knows the characters. He does know that Jean is a powerhouse. And yet he does not use her. I think his ideas are bolder than his characterization, but there is more going on here. As some have suggested, I think that Xavier is holding Jean back for some reason. Her codename and her costume suggest a regression to her character. At least in HoX/PoX and X-Men. In X-Force she is confident and powerful and versatile, ”able to play melody or harmony, to swing between the brightest and darkest notes”.
I love Jean in X-Force. But she is not a Marvel Girl and the costume doesn’t suit her. She is a true Marvel Woman here. It is like Percy and Hickman are writing two different characters. At least I felt this way until I read Giant Size. That version of Jean could have been written by Percy.
I just don’t get it. Or could it be that when Xavier was shot, something happened to Jean? That if Xavier was somehow holding her back, he lost his control over Jean when he died (for a while), and now the true Jean Grey is returning?
I am probably overthinking this, but to me it seemed clear that Hickman was going somewhere with Jean, she was weaker and a girl for a specific reason, and then something happened. Editorial input or a conscious move by Hickman?
Whatever the reason, I do wish she will get a new costume soon.
I still miss X-Men Red and the way Jean was written there. And I think Jean’s vision for mutants felt more modern than Xavier and Moira’s.
(Or maybe Xavier, Moira and Magneto are the bad guys - so sure of their dream that they have become fanatics.)

[franckd]

Have now read House of X/Powers of X, X-Men 1, X-Force 1-6 and Giant Size X-Men: Jean Grey + Emma Frost. Something is ... off. Jean Grey is stated to be an Omega telepath at the same time as she is underutilized in HoX/PoX. She behaves like a teenaged girl in some of the issues. And then in X-Men 1 she behaves like a housewife.
Hickman seems to have done his research. He seems to know his X-Men history and he knows the characters. He does know that Jean is a powerhouse. And yet he does not use her. I think his ideas are bolder than his characterization, but there is more going on here. As some have suggested, I think that Xavier is holding Jean back for some reason. Her codename and her costume suggest a regression to her character. At least in HoX/PoX and X-Men. In X-Force she is confident and powerful and versatile, ”able to play melody or harmony, to swing between the brightest and darkest notes”.
I love Jean in X-Force. But she is not a Marvel Girl and the costume doesn’t suit her. She is a true Marvel Woman here. It is like Percy and Hickman are writing two different characters. At least I felt this way until I read Giant Size. That version of Jean could have been written by Percy.
I just don’t get it. Or could it be that when Xavier was shot, something happened to Jean? That if Xavier was somehow holding her back, he lost his control over Jean when he died (for a while), and now the true Jean Grey is returning?
I am probably overthinking this, but to me it seemed clear that Hickman was going somewhere with Jean, she was weaker and a girl for a specific reason, and then something happened. Editorial input or a conscious move by Hickman?
Whatever the reason, I do wish she will get a new costume soon.
I still miss X-Men Red and the way Jean was written there. And I think Jean’s vision for mutants felt more modern than Xavier and Moira’s.
(Or maybe Xavier, Moira and Magneto are the bad guys - so sure of their dream that they have become fanatics.)

You are petty much saying what I said a few times, and what many Jean Grey fans said or felt.

I think Pox/Hox was brillant. I said it till the day I became a member of this board. Hickman has a vision, has clever ideas, concepts, and long term plans. But his Jean Grey felt OOC.
Many of us thought his Jean couldn't be the real Jean (I can understand that. I felt the same. How come X-Men Red Jean could be the same than Hickman's Jean?). Many thought she was mind controlled by Xavier. Many of us hated what we felt like a regression of Jean Grey. From her look to her code name and her behavior.

X-Force's Jean at least felt right. Still having that stupid retro mini skirt, washing gloves and hideous mask. But she's strong, confident, has a temper and she's fiery (Thank you Mr Benjmain Percy)

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Yeah, for a good Jean, read X-Force by Benjamin Percy.

Hickman likes the characters he likes. If you read his books for Jean, you are going to be disappointed.

[Wiccan]

Have now read House of X/Powers of X, X-Men 1, X-Force 1-6 and Giant Size X-Men: Jean Grey + Emma Frost. Something is ... off. Jean Grey is stated to be an Omega telepath at the same time as she is underutilized in HoX/PoX. She behaves like a teenaged girl in some of the issues. And then in X-Men 1 she behaves like a housewife.
Hickman seems to have done his research. He seems to know his X-Men history and he knows the characters. He does know that Jean is a powerhouse. And yet he does not use her. I think his ideas are bolder than his characterization, but there is more going on here. As some have suggested, I think that Xavier is holding Jean back for some reason. Her codename and her costume suggest a regression to her character. At least in HoX/PoX and X-Men. In X-Force she is confident and powerful and versatile, ”able to play melody or harmony, to swing between the brightest and darkest notes”.
I love Jean in X-Force. But she is not a Marvel Girl and the costume doesn’t suit her. She is a true Marvel Woman here. It is like Percy and Hickman are writing two different characters. At least I felt this way until I read Giant Size. That version of Jean could have been written by Percy.
I just don’t get it. Or could it be that when Xavier was shot, something happened to Jean? That if Xavier was somehow holding her back, he lost his control over Jean when he died (for a while), and now the true Jean Grey is returning?
I am probably overthinking this, but to me it seemed clear that Hickman was going somewhere with Jean, she was weaker and a girl for a specific reason, and then something happened. Editorial input or a conscious move by Hickman?
Whatever the reason, I do wish she will get a new costume soon.
I still miss X-Men Red and the way Jean was written there. And I think Jean’s vision for mutants felt more modern than Xavier and Moira’s.
(Or maybe Xavier, Moira and Magneto are the bad guys - so sure of their dream that they have become fanatics.)

You're a bit late. At this point I think everyone already gave up on the idea that Jean was brainwashed or mindcontrolled or something.

[Omega_DCD]

Orchis mission Jean was very off for me. I liked Quiet Council Jean, but still have my doubts with Hickman. X-Force Jean has been excellent thus far, and Giant Size XM Jean was probably mostly due to Dauterman's input...plus it so closely follows NXM 121, and Jean shined there

[johnnysv75]

You're a bit late. At this point I think everyone already gave up on the idea that Jean was brainwashed or mindcontrolled or something.

Yes, I know I am late. I mostly read comics on the Marvel Unlimited app, so I am usually 6 months late. But when I started reading HoX/PoX on the Unlimited app I wanted to read more. So today I started buying issues on the Marvel app. I read them so fast and bought so many in a row that it must have seemed like my card had been stolen - I couldn’t use my card anymore and had to add a different card.

[johnnysv75]

Orchis mission Jean was very off for me. I liked Quiet Council Jean, but still have my doubts with Hickman. X-Force Jean has been excellent thus far, and Giant Size XM Jean was probably mostly due to Dauterman's input...plus it so closely follows NXM 121, and Jean shined there

I love Dauterman’s Jean! He shows both her power and her empathy.

[spirit2011]

Have now read House of X/Powers of X, X-Men 1, X-Force 1-6 and Giant Size X-Men: Jean Grey + Emma Frost. Something is ... off. Jean Grey is stated to be an Omega telepath at the same time as she is underutilized in HoX/PoX. She behaves like a teenaged girl in some of the issues. And then in X-Men 1 she behaves like a housewife.

Yeah, majority of fans thought Hickman did a bad chaarcterization of Jean

Hickman seems to have done his research. He seems to know his X-Men history and he knows the characters. He does know that Jean is a powerhouse. And yet he does not use her. I think his ideas are bolder than his characterization, but there is more going on here. As some have suggested, I think that Xavier is holding Jean back for some reason. Her codename and her costume suggest a regression to her character. At least in HoX/PoX and X-Men. In X-Force she is confident and powerful and versatile, ”able to play melody or harmony, to swing between the brightest and darkest notes”.
I love Jean in X-Force. But she is not a Marvel Girl and the costume doesn’t suit her. She is a true Marvel Woman here. It is like Percy and Hickman are writing two different characters. At least I felt this way until I read Giant Size. That version of Jean could have been written by Percy.
I just don’t get it. Or could it be that when Xavier was shot, something happened to Jean? That if Xavier was somehow holding her back, he lost his control over Jean when he died (for a while), and now the true Jean Grey is returning?

There is nothing suggesting this. It wasn't made a big deal that Jean changed because Xavier died, she is pretty much the same just written better by Ben Percy

I think Somethig might be happening with Jean but I have no clue since Hickman never hinted something was wrong with Jean. And who know how many eyars can take to discover something here, if there is a thing to discover here and it is all just Hickman not writing jean well

[Wiccan]

Yes, I know I am late. I mostly read comics on the Marvel Unlimited app, so I am usually 6 months late. But when I started reading HoX/PoX on the Unlimited app I wanted to read more. So today I started buying issues on the Marvel app. I read them so fast and bought so many in a row that it must have seemed like my card had been stolen - I couldn’t use my card anymore and had to add a different card.

Yeah, I know you're literally late on the books, but I meant more as in that the ship has sailed already on the whole theories of there being something wrong with Jean thing lol.

[starduck]

Why didn't Jean get a sword

[MechaJeanix]

Anyone know who runs the Jean grey fan page on twitter? Any chance it is someone here? The opinions are very familiar. Just wondering. If you know something send me a private message, thanks!

[MechaJeanix]

Have now read House of X/Powers of X, X-Men 1, X-Force 1-6 and Giant Size X-Men: Jean Grey + Emma Frost. Something is ... off. Jean Grey is stated to be an Omega telepath at the same time as she is underutilized in HoX/PoX. She behaves like a teenaged girl in some of the issues. And then in X-Men 1 she behaves like a housewife.
Hickman seems to have done his research. He seems to know his X-Men history and he knows the characters. He does know that Jean is a powerhouse. And yet he does not use her. I think his ideas are bolder than his characterization, but there is more going on here. As some have suggested, I think that Xavier is holding Jean back for some reason. Her codename and her costume suggest a regression to her character. At least in HoX/PoX and X-Men. In X-Force she is confident and powerful and versatile, ”able to play melody or harmony, to swing between the brightest and darkest notes”.
I love Jean in X-Force. But she is not a Marvel Girl and the costume doesn’t suit her. She is a true Marvel Woman here. It is like Percy and Hickman are writing two different characters. At least I felt this way until I read Giant Size. That version of Jean could have been written by Percy.
I just don’t get it. Or could it be that when Xavier was shot, something happened to Jean? That if Xavier was somehow holding her back, he lost his control over Jean when he died (for a while), and now the true Jean Grey is returning?
I am probably overthinking this, but to me it seemed clear that Hickman was going somewhere with Jean, she was weaker and a girl for a specific reason, and then something happened. Editorial input or a conscious move by Hickman?
Whatever the reason, I do wish she will get a new costume soon.
I still miss X-Men Red and the way Jean was written there. And I think Jean’s vision for mutants felt more modern than Xavier and Moira’s.
(Or maybe Xavier, Moira and Magneto are the bad guys - so sure of their dream that they have become fanatics.)

I could be wrong, but I just think Hickman doesn't really have much interest in the character. Though, in one of those X-men Monday interviews Hickman acted like there may be story reason Jean was back in the Marvel Girl look and said that he thought fans would figure it out on House of X 1. Which doesn't tell me anything. He also said to go back and look at the last significant story she wore the costume. Again doesn't say much and fans thought he was referencing Dark Phoenix Saga. Though Jean was back in the costume in Phoenix Resurrection.

Hickman doesn't have a strong voice for Jean yet, but I am hoping it will change. Jean has a strong presence in X-force and she was utilized well in the Giant Sized issue (which may have been of the influence of the artist). Hickman writes Scott and Wolverine extremely well and his Storm is good. He also writes Emma well. He may not be as interested in Jean or he just hasn't got to do much with her yet.

I don't think they will have Xavier manipulate Jean because that would make Xavier look more villain like and I think they are moving away from that (even though he does questionable things as a leader of a nation). Some thought Jean had died and had been reborn from an earlier version of her mind. I don't like this idea and I hope this is not the case.

I'm not sure if there will be an explanation for Jean's outdated look or why she was portrayed as she was in the House of X orchis mission.

I agree that Tom Taylor wanted Jean to have her own vision for mutants that was entirely her own. I did love that part of X-men Red. It did feel modern and a fresh take. Jean wanted mutant rights wherever mutants were, to be like a nationless state, which may come with its own problems but she felt that being on an island (Genosha, Utopia) made them targets. Now of course, Jean is all in with the new mutant nation. I guess both Jean and Cyclops liked Xavier's new vision. The X-men are now in another bold new direction.

There are things I love about the new direction: the quiet council, the resurrection protocols, streamlining the omega mutants, mutant society and culture, etc. It is challenging because it is changing some of the things we believe the X-men are. I prefer them being a school, but I admit creating a new nation is interesting.

[Strong Girl Daken]

I still think Jean fans are being overdramatic in their Hickman hate. He made/kept her an omega and put her on the Quiet council where she made one of the three laws. I know she panicked on the Orchis mission which I admit was a bit OOC but she was keeping telepathic contact so what she was feeling leading up to her death (ie feeling everyone else's deaths) was crucial to selling the "no more" moment. Compare that to most of the other X-men like Beast, Colossus, Rogue, etc.

X-Force is giving us some of Jean's righteous fury. She made the initiative to start X-Force and answered an important question there about selfishness/selflessness when death is meaningless. Yeah the dress sucks (I still love the mask though), but Dauterman's efforts in GSX might inspire more of that outfit. She's also on some covers.

[loke13]

I still think Jean fans are being overdramatic in their Hickman hate. He made/kept her an omega and put her on the Quiet council where she made one of the three laws. I know she panicked on the Orchis mission which I admit was a bit OOC but she was keeping telepathic contact so what she was feeling leading up to her death (ie feeling everyone else's deaths) was crucial to selling the "no more" moment. Compare that to most of the other X-men like Beast, Colossus, Rogue, etc.

X-Force is giving us some of Jean's righteous fury. She made the initiative to start X-Force and answered an important question there about selfishness/selflessness when death is meaningless. Yeah the dress sucks (I still love the mask though), but Dauterman's efforts in GSX might inspire more of that outfit. She's also on some covers.

Agreed. Outside of the Orchis mission (which I still dont think it was a "terrible" showing for Jean) Hickman has written her pretty darn well. She might not have any sort of herculean power feats yet under his pen but I'd hardly say the ways shes acted is anything like a "teenage girl".

She was stellar in those first few issues of X-Force and Giant Size was fantastic. I have faith that Hickman will continue to write Jean as her fantastic self.

[Del torro]

Why didn't Jean get a sword

Meh, I don't think Jean needs a sword. She doesn't seem like that kind of character