Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

I want an era where this is not even possibly a concern. Unfortunately, I think "Cyclops' girlfriend" will be her main deal for the considerable future. They didn't take away her Phoenix mythology for nothin'. Much more interesting and important stuff for her to get up to, like raising Cyke and Maddie's kid and floating dishes lol

Xmen #1 jean grey is the definition of cringe. I still have a hard time that Hickman wrote Jean as housewife

[Strong Girl Daken]

Jean actually stresses me out in X-Force. I'm never sure if she's going to cross a line. And I think this is actually good and interesting. I think Percy is setting up Jean to be the one to take Beast out when he crosses the line, but maybe he'll drag her with him.

Edit: Show me Wolverine being anything but a house husband in X-men 1. Show me Corsair being anything but a grandpa. Show me Vulcan not being a loser younger brother. Show me Cable not being a dumb kid. Show me Rachel not being the deadpan older sister. X-men 1 was about the family dynamic on the Moon.

[johnnysv75]

I still think Jean fans are being overdramatic in their Hickman hate. He made/kept her an omega and put her on the Quiet council where she made one of the three laws. I know she panicked on the Orchis mission which I admit was a bit OOC but she was keeping telepathic contact so what she was feeling leading up to her death (ie feeling everyone else's deaths) was crucial to selling the "no more" moment. Compare that to most of the other X-men like Beast, Colossus, Rogue, etc.

X-Force is giving us some of Jean's righteous fury. She made the initiative to start X-Force and answered an important question there about selfishness/selflessness when death is meaningless. Yeah the dress sucks (I still love the mask though), but Dauterman's efforts in GSX might inspire more of that outfit. She's also on some covers.

I love love love a lot of what Hickman is doing and I would have loved for Jean to be a bigger part of the amazing stories he is telling.
I still think there is something going on with Krakoa, that Moira (and maybe Xavier) is doing something ”sinister” to make sure that mutants survive, that some of the mutants’ free will has been removed. And I think that makes for some interesting stories in the future. Can’t wait to see what Mystique will do.

Having said that: Jean can be naughty, confident, twisted, dark (as well as caring, heroic, and loving), and I would have loved to see Hickman delve into those aspects of her personality. He seems to love those kind of characters and I think it is a shame that he doesn’t explore those aspects of Jean. She is incredibly complex, but so far we haven’t seen much of that. (And I still suspect there is a reason why Jean is being held back a bit.)

I loved Teen Jean and I loved X-Men Red. Jean taking charge. I hope we will see more of that in the future.

[spirit2011]

Jean doesn't get much opportunity to show the feistiness that the teen version did because the story leaders aren't interested in that. Teen or not, she was going to get demoted in presence and power regardless. Part of that is because Teen Jean was at the center of a narrative, whereas regular Jean is a side-character.

Bendis put Jeen front and center because he was a big fan of Jean and wanted to do different from 60s that put Jean as the "girl" instead of leader.
It continued because editor and writer also wanted that

I don't get why the same can't be done with adult jean

[Strong Girl Daken]

I love love love a lot of what Hickman is doing and I would have loved for Jean to be a bigger part of the amazing stories he is telling.
I still think there is something going on with Krakoa, that Moira (and maybe Xavier) is doing something ”sinister” to make sure that mutants survive, that some of the mutants’ free will has been removed. And I think that makes for some interesting stories in the future. Can’t wait to see what Mystique will do.

Having said that: Jean can be naughty, confident, twisted, dark (as well as caring, heroic, and loving), and I would have loved to see Hickman delve into those aspects of her personality. He seems to love those kind of characters and I think it is a shame that he doesn’t explore those aspects of Jean. She is incredibly complex, but so far we haven’t seen much of that. (And I still suspect there is a reason why Jean is being held back a bit.)

I loved Teen Jean and I loved X-Men Red. Jean taking charge. I hope we will see more of that in the future.

I'm definitely not disagreeing but I do think that just because we haven't seen it all doesn't mean that what we've gotten is bad. Hickman is more interested in the world around the X-men than the X-men themselves. Xavier, Magneto, Moira, Apocalypse, Emma, Destiny, and Mystique (and sometimes Cyclops) are the ones that shine and they orbit the X-men rather than make up its ranks. His X-men are more puzzle pieces than characters. The other books are where interpersonal drama plays out and characterization happen.

[loke13]

Xmen #1 jean grey is the definition of cringe. I still have a hard time that Hickman wrote Jean as housewife

And just what exactly is wrong with being a housewife? I've seen this criticism thrown around a lot at Jean as if it's meant to be demeaning and tbh it comes off a little sexist.

Jean wasnt being a "housewise" she was setting a freaking table for dinner with Cables help. What exactly is demeaning about that action?

[spirit2011]

And just what exactly is wrong with being a housewife? I've seen this criticism thrown around a lot at Jean as if it's meant to be demeaning and tbh it comes off a little sexist.

Jean wasnt being a "housewise" she was setting a freaking table for dinner with Cables help. What exactly is demeaning about that action?

We are in 2020, it's time stereotypes like being a housewife are left behind.

the funny thing is that the serious conversations are between men, while Jean is only shows to put the table

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Housewife is cool or whatever if your husband is the rare person that can financially support such a thing in the non-1950s America, but Jean Grey is a literal superhero. I know that sucks for some that female characters are getting more play as powerful and important roles as the world gets wiser, but Jean shouldn't be stuck to old definitions and limiting roles just because she's tied to the snooze-worthy main character.

I swear to Phoenix if she has to fight Maddie over goddamned Cyclops and Cable again I am going to be furious.

[Zelena]

We are in 2020, it's time stereotypes like being a housewife are left behind.

the funny thing is that the serious conversations are between men, while Jean is only shows to put the table

Apparently, Hickman's subconscious is traditional.

[spirit2011]

Apparently, Hickman's subconscious is traditional.

To tease all that poly he isn't traditional, but for write jean he is traditional

[Wiccan]

Jean isn't really a housewife. She's part of the council and X-Force. Housewife implies that she just stays at home taking care of the house and the kids when that's not the case. X-Men #1 was a special occasion. Though I do find it disappointing that Hickman didn't really write anything for her in there.

[spirit2011]

Housewife is cool or whatever if your husband is the rare person that can financially support such a thing in the non-1950s America, but Jean Grey is a literal superhero. I know that sucks for some that female characters are getting more play as powerful and important roles as the world gets wiser, but Jean shouldn't be stuck to old definitions and limiting roles just because she's tied to the snooze-worthy main character.

I swear to Phoenix if she has to fight Maddie over goddamned Cyclops and Cable again I am going to be furious.

for me doesn't make sense show a superhero like Jean as housewife. Jean shouldn't even be married to Cyclops again. It is put sallt on the wound.

[phoenixzero23]

for me doesn't make sense show a superhero like Jean as housewife.

Except she isn't or has ever been a house wife?

Jean isn't really a housewife. She's part of the council and X-Force. Housewife implies that she just stays at home taking care of the house and the kids when that's not the case. X-Men #1 was a special occasion. Though I do find it disappointing that Hickman didn't really write anything for her in there.

Exactly, people are throwing the word as an insult and without that even fitting Jean at any time.

[Havok83]

Except she isn't or has ever been a house wife?


Exactly, people are throwing the word as an insult and without that even fitting Jean at any time.

She was back in the late 90s when she retired from superheroics

[phoenixzero23]

She was back in the late 90s when she retired from superheroics

And she right now is an active superhero. There are tons of problems with Hickman's portrayal but complainig for something that literally isn't happening feels like a stretch