Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Harpsikord]

Her regression in the current Hickman run, along with how he’s building up the entire shift, has me thinking they’re planning something big for her. Outside of Phoenix, Jean has been explored but hasn’t had a major shift in character over most of her runs. So what if we get a type of Dark Phoenix redux story, with or without Phoenix, but she stayed. Meaning what if she knowingly became more antagonistic and remained that way or became a character that swings between, as beast put it in X-Force, the brightest brights and the darkest darks. That’ll add an interesting dynamic to the character.

Sure it’ll have some Jean loyalist not liking it because who wants to see their favorite character become a villain, but so did Cyclops when he became a mutant terrorist. That is still one of the most interesting things they’ve done with his character so why not replicate that type of shift.

I really hope not. One of the most attractive and character defining things about Jean Grey to me is that she's one of the few superheroes that can still actually be called a hero. There are so many heroes - especially in the X-Men - who are willing to do the whole end justifies the means thing, who are willing to go to extreme measures to accomplish their goals even if that sacrifices who they are as individuals. Yes, Jean recently killed the plant sentinels in X-Force, but they weren't explicitly human and Jean is the type of character that would avoid killing someone or something above all else and only did so in the past when put under extreme duress. The fact that she isn't so quick to kill and has a code makes Jean human in a way that few other heroes are, and twisting her to suddenly have this dark side would sully that for me.

I like the fact that Jean would go above and beyond and out of her way not to harm someone or something but to help or save someone with more of an effort than most heroes would offer. I loved seeing Jean help that baby in X-Men Red not because it was a matter of life or death, not because it was some supervillain being a supervillain, but because it was the right thing to do. I loved seeing Jean deal with Cassandra in a way that showed more nuance than brute forcing it, which for a character like Jean would be easy to do. It's part of what makes Jean, Jean. She can be okay with - or neutral on - other important characters like Charles and Scott doing shady things but she's just not that way as a person and I think there needs to be more characters like her, Ben Grimm, Peter Parker, a well-written Steve Rogers, etc in comics.

[spirit2011]

I like this! I thought Xavier and/or Moira were somehow holding Jean back cause she would otherwise stop them from doing horrible things in their attempt to achieve something good. But this fits better. With Scott around Jean is more subdued. Without Scott, in X-force, she seems more sure of herself and more powerful. Krakoa ”thinks” Scott needs a good girlfriend and overcompensates, making Jean more subdued.

This would be really creepy. Jean on X-men is really more passive and a housewife living happily a domestic life.
Jean get a lot more atitute on x-force and alone on the council. I really want to see more of jean on future x-men issues to see how she will act.

Her regression in the current Hickman run, along with how he’s building up the entire shift, has me thinking they’re planning something big for her. Outside of Phoenix, Jean has been explored but hasn’t had a major shift in character over most of her runs. So what if we get a type of Dark Phoenix redux story, with or without Phoenix, but she stayed. Meaning what if she knowingly became more antagonistic and remained that way or became a character that swings between, as beast put it in X-Force, the brightest brights and the darkest darks. That’ll add an interesting dynamic to the character.

Sure it’ll have some Jean loyalist not liking it because who wants to see their favorite character become a villain, but so did Cyclops when he became a mutant terrorist. That is still one of the most interesting things they’ve done with his character so why not replicate that type of shift.

Cyclops was seen as a hero for the x-men fans. i think he went rogue, but not a mutant terrorist

Jean is one of the few x-men characters that are still good like Superman.

[Havok83]

This would be really creepy. Jean on X-men is really more passive and a housewife living happily a domestic life.
Jean get a lot more atitute on x-force and alone on the council. I really want to see more of jean on future x-men issues to see how she will act.



Cyclops was seen as a hero for the x-men fans. i think he went rogue, but not a mutant terrorist

Jean is one of the few x-men characters that are still good like Superman.

Cyclops was a mutant terrorist in canon. The only ones that supported him was his team in Uncanny but everyone else in the MU looked at and treated him like a terrorist. He was a fugitive evading Avengers and SHIELD arrest for the bulk of Bendis' run. The main X-men at the Jean Grey school did not acknowledge him as an X-man and treated him accordingly as they did with Magneto when he was a mutant terrorist

[Su_Whisterfield]

I like this! I thought Xavier and/or Moira were somehow holding Jean back cause she would otherwise stop them from doing horrible things in their attempt to achieve something good. But this fits better. With Scott around Jean is more subdued. Without Scott, in X-force, she seems more sure of herself and more powerful. Krakoa ”thinks” Scott needs a good girlfriend and overcompensates, making Jean more subdued.

It’s just a guess, there’s so clearly something amiss, it’s just so hard to pin down exactly what. Because there are so many possibilities.
And I think Scott would be horrified to think he’s responsible for doing that to her.

Krakoa is fascinating. I love that the mutant community is being freed from decades of death and destruction, but it’s so clearly a poison chalice, we just don’t know who’s the culprit. Or if it’s even deliberate.
If it’s Charles or Moira or one of the villains, that one thing, but Krakoa itself? It’s morals are much murkier, it’s an island, a sentient island, but it’s not a person, it has no experience of culture, society or humanity.

I really hope not. One of the most attractive and character defining things about Jean Grey to me is that she's one of the few superheroes that can still actually be called a hero. There are so many heroes - especially in the X-Men - who are willing to do the whole end justifies the means thing, who are willing to go to extreme measures to accomplish their goals even if that sacrifices who they are as individuals. Yes, Jean recently killed the plant sentinels in X-Force, but they weren't explicitly human and Jean is the type of character that would avoid killing someone or something above all else and only did so in the past when put under extreme duress. The fact that she isn't so quick to kill and has a code makes Jean human in a way that few other heroes are, and twisting her to suddenly have this dark side would sully that for me.

I like the fact that Jean would go above and beyond and out of her way not to harm someone or something but to help or save someone with more of an effort than most heroes would offer. I loved seeing Jean help that baby in X-Men Red not because it was a matter of life or death, not because it was some supervillain being a supervillain, but because it was the right thing to do. I loved seeing Jean deal with Cassandra in a way that showed more nuance than brute forcing it, which for a character like Jean would be easy to do. It's part of what makes Jean, Jean. She can be okay with - or neutral on - other important characters like Charles and Scott doing shady things but she's just not that way as a person and I think there needs to be more characters like her, Ben Grimm, Peter Parker, a well-written Steve Rogers, etc in comics.

I don’t want Jean too compromised by our mutant CIA.
It might be considered dull, it might be considered boring, by some, but Jean’s innate goodness and kindness is a big part of why I like her.
It’s no coincidence that Kurt is my favourite character and I very much like Jean and Kurt interacting as friends, non romantic interactions between characters are too rare in mainstream comics these days, just an odd panel here and there.

I’d really, really like to see some conflict come up between her and the more gung-ho parts of X Force, particularly the current way they are writing Hank.

[WallStreeter]

I don’t know about regress, but I think Krakoa is Up To Something.
It’s trying to please everyone.
Scott’s wish to have a happy family around him. Black Tom’s wish for his friend, Juggernaut (Krakoa grew a statue of him. Doug’s wish to have Warlock back as a separate entity. Kurt’s wish for a cathedral he can call home. There are probably more.

So what happens when those wishes become conflicting? If Logan doesn’t want to live on the moon? And why is Krakoa doing it? Is it doing it alone or with help?

Pertinent to this thread, what happens if Jean doesn’t want to be Marvel Girl any more? If she wants to be Phoenix?

Cyclops before he died was hardly a family man. As others pointed out he was considered a terrorist. He was too used to being a leader to simply follow orders. It’s never been addressed but I think he and others were mentally ready or had memories edited.

That might be why Jean is in the Marvel Girl mini. As for what happens when Jean decides she wants to be Phoenix again? She finds out the deal about Moira.

With their helmets on Magneto and Xavier have defenses against Jean’s telepathic probes. But as Phoenix she could sense issues wrong time itself

Hickman definitely thought this true. Like no precogs on Krakoa. Of course Destiny told Mystique to find a way to bring her back or burn Krakoa to the ground. So at some point it looks like Destiny will come back. I’d say ditto the Phoenix.

[phoenixzero23]

I don’t want Jean too compromised by our mutant CIA.
It might be considered dull, it might be considered boring, by some, but Jean’s innate goodness and kindness is a big part of why I like her.
.

I agree, there are enough corrupted, or edgy characters or even good characters that have been ruined in order to make them more "complex". Jean doesn't need that.
Some times being kind, heroic and good is enough.
Pure heroes have their own appeal.

[spirit2011]

Cyclops was a mutant terrorist in canon. The only ones that supported him was his team in Uncanny but everyone else in the MU looked at and treated him like a terrorist. He was a fugitive evading Avengers and SHIELD arrest for the bulk of Bendis' run. The main X-men at the Jean Grey school did not acknowledge him as an X-man and treated him accordingly as they did with Magneto when he was a mutant terrorist

But this was after AvX. Scott was still not the villain they painted him, mostly of things blamed on him were Emma doing it.

It’s just a guess, there’s so clearly something amiss, it’s just so hard to pin down exactly what. Because there are so many possibilities.
And I think Scott would be horrified to think he’s responsible for doing that to her.

Krakoa is fascinating. I love that the mutant community is being freed from decades of death and destruction, but it’s so clearly a poison chalice, we just don’t know who’s the culprit. Or if it’s even deliberate.
If it’s Charles or Moira or one of the villains, that one thing, but Krakoa itself? It’s morals are much murkier, it’s an island, a sentient island, but it’s not a person, it has no experience of culture, society or humanity.

I think Scott would feel bad, but on Morrison's run he was definately jealous of Jean. Scott was really insecure about not measuring up to Jean, and was really afraid of Jean suing the phoenix power. There is a lot to explore about this.

Krakoa is all full of misteries, characters are acting different...

[Icekid]

I really hope not. One of the most attractive and character defining things about Jean Grey to me is that she's one of the few superheroes that can still actually be called a hero. There are so many heroes - especially in the X-Men - who are willing to do the whole end justifies the means thing, who are willing to go to extreme measures to accomplish their goals even if that sacrifices who they are as individuals. Yes, Jean recently killed the plant sentinels in X-Force, but they weren't explicitly human and Jean is the type of character that would avoid killing someone or something above all else and only did so in the past when put under extreme duress. The fact that she isn't so quick to kill and has a code makes Jean human in a way that few other heroes are, and twisting her to suddenly have this dark side would sully that for me.

I like the fact that Jean would go above and beyond and out of her way not to harm someone or something but to help or save someone with more of an effort than most heroes would offer. I loved seeing Jean help that baby in X-Men Red not because it was a matter of life or death, not because it was some supervillain being a supervillain, but because it was the right thing to do. I loved seeing Jean deal with Cassandra in a way that showed more nuance than brute forcing it, which for a character like Jean would be easy to do. It's part of what makes Jean, Jean. She can be okay with - or neutral on - other important characters like Charles and Scott doing shady things but she's just not that way as a person and I think there needs to be more characters like her, Ben Grimm, Peter Parker, a well-written Steve Rogers, etc in comics.

This may come off as confusing but I agree with all of your points and your examples are all reasons why I love Jean! It’s not necessarily that I want something similar to what I mentioned to happen, but I can’t help but feel that it will happen eventually, and maybe soon. They're setting up some sort of conflict and Jean will be a major player. I just can’t help but feel she was purposefully depowered via resurrection protocols or something before the Orchis conflict in HoX.

They’re very deliberate in how she’s being presented post-Phoenix Resurrection and while she had a triumphant return to set things right in X-Men Red (which they need to give the girl some credit since a mutant nation was first presented as an idea of hers). None of us want to see some sort of departure from her heroic characterization but looking at everyone else around her one time or another, she’s overdue for a shakeup to keep things interesting on the business side.

[Havok83]

But this was after AvX. Scott was still not the villain they painted him, mostly of things blamed on him were Emma doing it.


I think Scott would feel bad, but on Morrison's run he was definately jealous of Jean. Scott was really insecure about not measuring up to Jean, and was really afraid of Jean suing the phoenix power. There is a lot to explore about this.

Krakoa is all full of misteries, characters are acting different...

well duh. The post AvX era when Bendis was writing was about him being labeled a terrorist. Emma was not blamed for that. She took the fall for IvX when Scott was dead but he bore the blame and hate during his mutant revolution

[spirit2011]

This may come off as confusing but I agree with all of your points and your examples are all reasons why I love Jean! It’s not necessarily that I want something similar to what I mentioned to happen, but I can’t help but feel that it will happen eventually, and maybe soon. They're setting up some sort of conflict and Jean will be a major player. I just can’t help but feel she was purposefully depowered via resurrection protocols or something before the Orchis conflict in HoX.

They’re very deliberate in how she’s being presented post-Phoenix Resurrection and while she had a triumphant return to set things right in X-Men Red (which they need to give the girl some credit since a mutant nation was first presented as an idea of hers). None of us want to see some sort of departure from her heroic characterization but looking at everyone else around her one time or another, she’s overdue for a shakeup to keep things interesting on the business side.

Seeing how Hickman burned many characters on his avengers run, it can't be ruled out that Jean could go darker.
Hickman loves cinism and darker stories.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

It's not that Jean needs to go dark, but as a hero that has to take on murderers and monsters, I think situations where she has to make a tough decision, do the tough thing so someone else doesn't have to, are part of her job description. As long as it doesn't become over-the-top or prolonged. Things like her action dealing with the plant monster people in X-Force are good character moments to have, especially for characters that aren't constantly in those situations. Jean is right where she ought to be with X-Force for this reason and others.

[MechaJeanix]

I'm wary of Jean going too dark as well. I like that Jean is doing challenging things in X-force. The whole mutant CIA is complex because they are doing questionable things out of the idea of protecting their mutant nation. I see Jean has someone who cares deeply for others and she is compassionate but push comes to shove she can make hard choices. She will do what must be done. Jean has awesome powers but her greatest power is probably her compassion and empathy (as a character trait and as mutant power).

I definitely want to see more of Hickman's Jean and we should see that since she's on two covers coming up. I think she might involved in the Brood story (though I bet she doesn't have a main role). We know that Hickman has set up the vacation trip for the Summers family so we might see that coming up. I do want to see more of Jean in X-force. She has her best showings there, but she doesn't always get a lot of panel time.

I do hope Hickman has big plans for Jean and maybe that is why she seems off right now. She may be on the back burner at the moment. I do think all of the omega mutants will eventually be important but we don't know how long we will have to wait on that story. Sometimes I worry it might be at the end of their ten year plan, but only time will tell.

I do hope Jean is featured in the Giant Sized X-men Storm issue.

[Harpsikord]

X-Force has a huge roster, but with everything going on mentally with Colossus - the centerpiece of the upcoming arc - and what Percy said about Jean being's Hank's foil, I expect to see a lot more of her going forward there.

[MechaJeanix]

I love Beast and Jean as friends. So I kind of hate to see them at odds with each other. At least it is something different. We've seen Beast and Scott at odds many times over the years.

[phoenixzero23]

Happy women's day for the first X-woman!

also a nice pic

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9eaW86F1vB/
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