Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Celestialbodies]

Id shorten that to 2008. The X-books did not revolve around him when Whedon was writing. AXM may have been the flagship but it was notoriously late and it was the only place that Scott appeared on a regular basis. He may have made appearances in the X-books but purely as a cameo or supporting. Like Claremont's Uncanny, New X-men and Austen's X-men for example during that same era did not feature him in any meaningful capacity and Scott was not driving the line. The focus shifted to him in the San Francisco era and that lasted through AvX

Tbf Scott starred as the lead in the flagship title from 2009-2011, Carey used him a lot and a recurring cast throughout his XM: Legacy run with Scott being the figure head of the X-men directly after ditching Xavier. Fraction's UXM was in 2009 and all of mutantdom was invited to the island per Scott's request before Gillen took over with Scott still the lead up until 2011 Schism, even after that for months Scott's shadow stretched across multiple books and stories up until Bendis run. I'm not saying he was the only focus but it's disingenuous to assume Scott wasn't the POV character for the X-men it was his thoughts, actions, and motivations that received the most attention and directed many of the X-related stories.

And that's all without mentioning his appearances throughout each relaunch of AXM after Whedon was off the title.

[MechaJeanix]

Switching gears, when do we think Jean officially surpassed Xavier as a telepath?

I’m thinking New X-Men era but it could have been before.

[Havok83]

Switching gears, when do we think Jean officially surpassed Xavier as a telepath?

I’m thinking New X-Men era but it could have been before.

When he lost his powers due to Onslaught. Thats when she started being proclaimed as the strongest mind on the planet. I think her ascension to evolving into Phoenix by Seagle would have explored this more but that got put on the backburner until Morrison was able to in New X-men as you mentioned

[spirit2011]

It is still social and it is still social control , as I said it is the concept of mutual obligation. If I agree to be monogamous with someone and they agree to those terms and are also monogamous then we have something akin to a social contract. Again it’s called mutual obligation . That doesn’t mean it is right or wrong but it is certainly social rather than ‘natural’.

There are social and cultural norms that impact human sexuality (behaviors, how we express, etc). And these norms, customs, values, and beliefs change over time.

Jean is a telepath so she of all people should see through and beyond human social constructs.

It's not social control, since is not a law.

Believes change throught time, doesn't mean everyone gonna be into that. And I gonna say that poliamor completely lost my sympath

monogamy isn't a human social construct.

[Cruelrain]

Will we ever see Jean using her pink form again?
i really liked that power up, it makes a difference between her and other telepathy/telekinesis users
the ability to drain psychic energy

I was hoping to see it during the X-Men Red run but never happened

It showed her potential without the Phoenix force

[Omega_DCD]

I'd say the first hint was UXM 281 when Jean transferred her psyche into the White Queen's body...Xavier was surprised and intrigued, and said when he unlocked her TP, she quickly became a telepath of intricate complexity, and related that to the Phoenix Force choosing Jean

Later, Onslaught tries to coerce Jean in order to find out how her mind is able to access the Phoenix Force...she's able to resist him twice

But yeah, I agree that NXM era is when it becomes official...expanding her mind, putting Xavier's mind inside her own, losing only a few memories (granted Xavier was booby trapped with several neurological diseases...and Jean was infected with nano sentinels)...was no small feat

[spirit2011]

Will we ever see Jean using her pink form again?
i really liked that power up, it makes a difference between her and other telepathy/telekinesis
the ability to drain psychic energy

I was hoping to see it during the X-Men Red run but never happened

It showed her potential without the Phoenix force

I really don't think the pink power gonna happen again, JDW really deflect the question saying it was a old thing for jean

It's a shame because it i sa good power without Phoenix, so it doesn't bring many problems

[MechaJeanix]

It's not social control, since is not a law.

Believes change throught time, doesn't mean everyone gonna be into that. And I gonna say that poliamor completely lost my sympath

monogamy isn't a human social construct.

Wow, formal social control would include things like codified statutes or laws. Monogamy would be under informal social control which I’ve already detailed. This is basic intro to sociology material so it’s not like a new idea. It is very old ideas from sociology and anthropology, not to mention family studies, etc. not sure why you are attempting to argue this.

My point remains and to bring it home, Jean may or may not be monogamous right now , but as I continue to state we can’t say for sure because it hasn’t been out right confirmed.

[MechaJeanix]

I'd say the first hint was UXM 281 when Jean transferred her psyche into the White Queen's body...Xavier was surprised and intrigued, and said when he unlocked her TP, she quickly became a telepath of intricate complexity, and related that to the Phoenix Force choosing Jean

Later, Onslaught tries to coerce Jean in order to find out how her mind is able to access the Phoenix Force...she's able to resist him twice

But yeah, I agree that NXM era is when it becomes official...expanding her mind, putting Xavier's mind inside her own, losing only a few memories (granted Xavier was booby trapped with several neurological diseases...and Jean was infected with nano sentinels)...was no small feat

Jean definitely had the potential going way back, but I’m thinking after Onslaught she got a power up that continued through the Morrison era. I keep going back to the Morrison line where Beast reminds Scott Jean is a grown up omega level mutant. It seemed clear indication that she was in another class (which confirmed X-men Forever where she was revealed to be one).

[Strong Girl Daken]

Monogamy is a social construct lmao jfc

[Celestialbodies]

Jean definitely had the potential going way back, but I’m thinking after Onslaught she got a power up that continued through the Morrison era. I keep going back to the Morrison line where Beast reminds Scott Jean is a grown up omega level mutant. It seemed clear indication that she was in another class (which confirmed X-men Forever where she was revealed to be one).

I know, I know I'm annoying but this is what I want more from Jean and writers those little nuggets where things that occur with her are referenced in other titles. Morrison for better or worse did his homework on that front where Jean is concerned.

[Omega_DCD]

Jean definitely had the potential going way back, but I’m thinking after Onslaught she got a power up that continued through the Morrison era. I keep going back to the Morrison line where Beast reminds Scott Jean is a grown up omega level mutant. It seemed clear indication that she was in another class (which confirmed X-men Forever where she was revealed to be one).

I'm just glad Jean is finally out of Xavier's shadow...I was in 6th grade and can remember almost every Jean Grey comic card across multiple series saying variations of Jean is only 2nd to Xavier, and may someday surpass even him

I'm almost 40 now and with the Phoenix ties severed, Jean is finally filling out the Omega level status she gained 20 years ago all on her own

[Phoenixx9]

I'd say the first hint was UXM 281 when Jean transferred her psyche into the White Queen's body...Xavier was surprised and intrigued, and said when he unlocked her TP, she quickly became a telepath of intricate complexity, and related that to the Phoenix Force choosing Jean

Later, Onslaught tries to coerce Jean in order to find out how her mind is able to access the Phoenix Force...she's able to resist him twice

But yeah, I agree that NXM era is when it becomes official...expanding her mind, putting Xavier's mind inside her own, losing only a few memories (granted Xavier was booby trapped with several neurological diseases...and Jean was infected with nano sentinels)...was no small feat

A most excellent synopsis of these critical points in Jean's TP psychic development!!

A great reminder for all----those of us who remember those issues and for those who do not know about them. Each proves that Jean is a tremendous Telepath!

[Phoenixx9]

Jean definitely had the potential going way back, but I’m thinking after Onslaught she got a power up that continued through the Morrison era. I keep going back to the Morrison line where Beast reminds Scott Jean is a grown up omega level mutant. It seemed clear indication that she was in another class (which confirmed X-men Forever where she was revealed to be one).

I'm just glad Jean is finally out of Xavier's shadow...I was in 6th grade and can remember almost every Jean Grey comic card across multiple series saying variations of Jean is only 2nd to Xavier, and may someday surpass even him

I'm almost 40 now and with the Phoenix ties severed, Jean is finally filling out the Omega level status she gained ep years ago all on her own

Yes, I remember the statement, more than once, that Jean was second perhaps only to Xavier and would one-day surpass him.

I always said Jean had the potential, but that it just took some time for her powers to fully develop into the Omega-Level status--not because they were not powerful--but because they were so powerful. All of those years allowed Jean to master the power levels at each increase.

[Harpsikord]

In a lot of ways the fact that Xavier limited Jean's powers is sort of indicative on the state of comics as it progressed. A man limited the powers of a woman is sort of like a male writer limiting what he does with a female writer and slowly, over time, it became more and more accepted and even expected that female characters would and could be as badass as male characters and as a result of that Jean was allowed to blossom.