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  1. #121
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I've never thought of the fire as real fire, but just extreme TK, like the molecule manipulation.

    Because why would she (or the psychic cosmic entity) have fire powers?
    According to the Official Phoenix handbook, she is embued with cosmic fire. Why? Bc its the Phoenix Force and thats always been a representation of its energy. All the Phoenix hosts have access to cosmic fire to amplify their abilities



    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Well, Phoenix is a firebird... On the original run there was no fire at all, but after it there has been a lot of fiery effects and I feel like it's just silly if it's not actually fire but just Jean/the Phoenix wanting to look cool.
    Nah there was fire in the original run. Cockrum didnt draw it but Byrne added it and its been fairly consistent since then
    Last edited by Havok83; 01-05-2020 at 07:39 AM.

  2. #122
    Spectacular Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    All posts about Jean as Phoenix made me think about Sequoia Swennes’ wonderful story ”Risen”. An alternate take on Jean returning after having sacrificed herself on the moon. When I read it back in the 90s I always felt like ”Risen” would have been a better way to bring back Jean.

    http://redshades.tripod.com/archive/sequoia_risen1.htm

    It is in 19 parts and not completed. But what is there is very good, I think.

    While I was looking for ”Risen” I found a short story I wrote way back in the late 90s, around the time when Steve Seagle wrote Uncanny X-Men and Jean started wearing the Phoenix costume again. I had completely forgotten this story.
    It was my way of trying to make sense of Jean’s transformation from powerhouse in X-Factor to ”wallflower” in the X-Men Gold-team. It is a discussion between Xavier and Moira. I wrote it more than 20 years ago and English is not my first language. The language is very much ”fan fiction-English” - a bit overwritten and some ”big words” that are not used correctly and I use ellipsis (three dots) a lot! But some parts are ... decent.

    http://www.alara.net/opeople/xbooks/morningcoffee.txt
    Last edited by johnnysv75; 01-06-2020 at 11:46 AM.

  3. #123
    Mighty Member Peanutsinspace's Avatar
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    Interesting, thank you for sharing!

  4. #124
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I guess I never really saw the Phoenix as literal flame or even cosmic flame but psychic flame (or psychic energy that appeared like flame). Rachel and Jean often used the cosmic flame of the Phoenix to move things as if it were telekinesis. I recall one writer in Excalibur having Rachel sometimes state she would use her telekinesis to jumpstart the phoenix force (whatever that means). The Phoenix can be confusing.

  5. #125

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    I love the idea of the Phoenix being the last remnant of the fire from the big bang.

  6. #126
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    According to the Official Phoenix handbook, she is embued with cosmic fire. Why? Bc its the Phoenix Force and thats always been a representation of its energy. All the Phoenix hosts have access to cosmic fire to amplify their abilities





    Nah there was fire in the original run. Cockrum didnt draw it but Byrne added it and its been fairly consistent since then
    Yes, the cosmic fire has always been shown with the Phoenix Jean.

    The problem with those powers grids is that if I knew nothing of comics or Phoenix, I would not know that Jean as Phoenix was the most powerful psychic entity ever shown. Even for Jean, it just states that she is a powerful psychic, not an uber-powerful telepath and it does not mention that she is within the top 5 or 10 most powerful, etc. The wording is not exact enough. Telekinesis is worded as if it were possibly Omega Level, but we now know that is not the case.

    Even the grids themselves are often incorrect. For example, Jean might have a durability of "2", but with her Telekinetic Force Bubble, it should be a "6". As Phoenix, it should be off the chart, not just a "7". In addition, all of Jean's Phoenix Powers should be OFF THE CHART, not just a "7". They could list them as "7", but add an "*" with wording stating "OFF THE CHART" or they would be an "11" with a numerical system, etc.

  7. #127
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    All I'll say about "official handbooks" is that Jean's intelligence is actually a 3.67846, not a 3. 3 is way too low.

    The Phoenix Force being actual fire is dumb.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  8. #128
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I was never a fan of the official handbook bios because of the things others have already said. They weren't always exactly accurate. For Jean, I prefer the bio on Uncanny X-men.net. It is not perfect but it is pretty good. Several (maybe more than several) a few knowledgable posters here edited the Jean bio on Wikipedia and it was great - factual and cited a lot from the comics but over time so many others have edited it and changed so much (usually taking out a lot of her phoenix moments - which are in most of the other online bios like Uncanny X-men.net and others). I guess with retcons and Teen Jean, Jean Grey's history is a bit complex.

    In the wiki a lot of the Morrison era became severely truncated too which sucked. Biographies of soap opera characters can be hard because there are so much content and you have to decide what to focus on if you want to keep it from being too long.

  9. #129
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    I think Phoenix being cosmic/psychic fire makes sense. It calls itself the mother of stars. Also can Jean herself without the Phoenix rearrange matter with tk? like turning a tree into gold, a burned asteroid into a futuristic black bird jet etc

  10. #130
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    I think Phoenix being cosmic/psychic fire makes sense. It calls itself the mother of stars. Also can Jean herself without the Phoenix rearrange matter with tk? like turning a tree into gold, a burned asteroid into a futuristic black bird jet etc
    I do not believe Jean has shown that type of ability without the Phoenix. In the start of Morrison's run she was able to move around oxygen molecules and cause an explosion. This was before she starting showing any signs of flame. In X-men Red Jean moved a nano-sentinel device out of Storm's brain with her tk. So Jean has shown some forms of molecular level tk but nothing on the level that you are describing.

  11. #131
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I do not believe Jean has shown that type of ability without the Phoenix. In the start of Morrison's run she was able to move around oxygen molecules and cause an explosion. This was before she starting showing any signs of flame. In X-men Red Jean moved a nano-sentinel device out of Storm's brain with her tk. So Jean has shown some forms of molecular level tk but nothing on the level that you are describing.
    I think she could separate water molecules in Lego Marvel of all places

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I do not believe Jean has shown that type of ability without the Phoenix. In the start of Morrison's run she was able to move around oxygen molecules and cause an explosion. This was before she starting showing any signs of flame. In X-men Red Jean moved a nano-sentinel device out of Storm's brain with her tk. So Jean has shown some forms of molecular level tk but nothing on the level that you are describing.
    Teen Jean rebuilt her body from scratch. So adult Jean would know how to do this as well since she regained all the knowledge her teenage self had.

  13. #133
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Teen Jean rebuilt her body from scratch. So adult Jean would know how to do this as well since she regained all the knowledge her teenage self had.
    Good point. I blame temporary memory loss. Remind me how Jean rebuilding her body went down? Pink form or some other way?

  14. #134
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    I think Phoenix being cosmic/psychic fire makes sense. It calls itself the mother of stars. Also can Jean herself without the Phoenix rearrange matter with tk? like turning a tree into gold, a burned asteroid into a futuristic black bird jet etc
    LOL...in the original run, she as Phoenix literally ate a star to refuel her power so yeah the cosmic fire makes sense

    Jean in Claremonyt's Revolution run used Cable's TK to rearrange the molecules of their outfits to change into costumes so yeah I would say its a skill she has
    Last edited by Havok83; 01-06-2020 at 09:07 PM.

  15. #135
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    Considering Jean is able to absorb the knowledge of others and she also has perfect memory, she could easily become a master of almost anything (martial arts, medicine, computer science, physics, etc.). Of course, that would already make a super powerful character even more over-powered, so I can see why they've only brought up this application of her telepathy a handful of times and why they rated her Intelligence as only average.

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