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  1. #781
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    They don't always list all the VA's in the press release. I remember there were some major voices in Death/Reign and Hush that they didn't mention in the press release (like Martian Manhunter's voice).

  2. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post




    This is whats missing in the DCAMU.

  3. #783
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianS View Post
    That is not how I read it. He was there, and everything happened as per GL 46, except that - psychologically - the impact came later as per ET.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Yeah, they never retconned away Hal's part in Reign of the Supermen. He wasn't there when Coast City was destroyed, he showed up afterwards to open up a can of whup-ass on Mongul. What was retconned was Gerard Jones's original depiction of Hal's state of mind in the aftermath, in which Hal teams up with Ollie and some nonsense about alien rays explaining away Hard Travelling Heroes, and robot duplicates in the Ferris family that everyone rightfully ignored.
    Hal was there. He spent GL #46 fighting Mongul while Eradicator and Matrix Supergirl were fighting Cyborg Superman. Hal got away from Mongul for a bit to try to get to Cyborg Superman before he could do any damage when Matrix Supergirl started fighting Mongul but was too late by then and immediately went back to get his hands on Mongul. Then you see/hear Hal's original reaction to the destruction of Coast City right before Mongul starts gloating about Coast City's destruction...

    Hal's inner monologue and psychological reaction to the destruction - "My past is dead, but I'm still alive and I owe the dead for that..."

    Hal's outer dialogue towards Mongul - "Your day is over crud... For you and whoever the creep is you're taking orders from..."

    Hal's inner monologue to himself regarding the injuries he sustained from fighting Mongul throughout the issue - "Up damn it! Don't feel the pain... bring it up!"

    Mongul's response to Hal by taunting him about Coast City's destruction - "...Indeed? Your power... it requires will little man... I shattered that will..."

    Hal's response to Mongul's Coast City destruction taunt - "Mongul... you shattered my arm... you shattered my knee (during their fighting throughout the issue)… (then a big Green BOOM of light with Hal then appearing in a full mech bodyarmor construct) ...But my WILL is something that you can never touch…"

    Hal - "This is for my friends (as Hal's family had all moved away from Coast City a long time ago)…"

    SMACK!!! Down goes Mongul and by the end of the issue Hal moves on with his life and teams up with Ollie next issue (no going insane or trying to recreate Coast City with his power ring).



    Then before the first issue of Gerard Jones' Emerald Twilight is about to be sent off to the printers, Denny O'Neil cancels that, kicks Jones off of the book, plots his own version of Emerald Twilight and hires Ron Marz to quickly flesh out his plot and the O'Neil/Marz version of Emerald Twilight is what we ended up with (instead of drifter Hal moving on with his life as usual like originally intended they have Hal act like he's seeing the destruction for the very first time, picking up a dead girl's doll and then starting to go insane by trying to re-create Coast City with his power ring, getting mad with the majority of the Guardians for telling him the rings aren't capable of doing anything like that and even if the rings could do that the Guardians wouldn't allow him to anyway (and I say majority because John should have been there with the rest of them and the excuse they came up with for him not being there made absolutely no sense especially when you read the first arc of the series) decides to take out his frustration on his own friends and recruits to collect their rings even though he didn't even end up doing anything of significance with those rings anyway, killed Sinestro even though Sinestro had already been dead for a very long time, purposely murders one of the best friends he ever had and destroys the Central Power Battery so he could horde all of that energy for himself (all of which was selfish and not only against everything he ever believed in because Hal believes in free will but also went against one of the main criteria for being a GL which is complete honesty and honest people aren't selfish enough to attack and turn their backs on the people they convince and recruit themselves to be GL's just like him)

    Emerald Twilight was ill conceived (it's not the story it was originally supposed to be and even Marz himself has stated in interviews that it was a rush job that he wished he had more than the allotted 3 issues so he could have addressed everything from the previous issues from Jones' run on the GL books and previous continuity properly)
    Last edited by docmidnite; 03-30-2020 at 06:50 PM.

  4. #784
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmidnite View Post
    Hal was there. He spent GL #46 fighting Mongul while Eradicator and Matrix Supergirl were fighting Cyborg Superman. Hal got away from Mongul for a bit to try to get to Cyborg Superman before he could do any damage when Matrix Supergirl started fighting Mongul but was too late by then and immediately went back to get his hands on Mongul. Then you see/hear Hal's original reaction to the destruction of Coast City right before Mongul starts gloating about Coast City's destruction...

    Hal's inner monologue and psychological reaction to the destruction - "My past is dead, but I'm still alive and I owe the dead for that..."

    Hal's outer dialogue towards Mongul - "Your day is over crud... For you and whoever the creep is you're taking orders from..."

    Hal's inner monologue to himself regarding the injuries he sustained from fighting Mongul throughout the issue - "Up damn it! Don't feel the pain... bring it up!"

    Mongul's response to Hal by taunting him about Coast City's destruction - "...Indeed? Your power... it requires will little man... I shattered that will..."

    Hal's response to Mongul's Coast City destruction taunt - "Mongul... you shattered my arm... you shattered my knee (during their fighting throughout the issue)… (then a big Green BOOM of light with Hal then appearing in a full mech bodyarmor construct) ...But my WILL is something that you can never touch…"

    Hal - "This is for my friends (as Hal's family had all moved away from Coast City a long time ago)…"

    SMACK!!! Down goes Mongul and by the end of the issue Hal moves on with his life and teams up with Ollie next issue (no going insane or trying to recreate Coast City with his power ring).



    Then before the first issue of Gerard Jones' Emerald Twilight is about to be sent off to the printers, Denny O'Neil cancels that, kicks Jones off of the book, plots his own version of Emerald Twilight and hires Ron Marz to quickly flesh out his plot and the O'Neil/Marz version of Emerald Twilight is what we ended up with (instead of drifter Hal moving on with his life as usual like originally intended they have Hal act like he's seeing the destruction for the very first time, picking up a dead girl's doll and then starting to go insane by trying to re-create Coast City with his power ring, getting mad with the majority of the Guardians for telling him the rings aren't capable of doing anything like that and even if the rings could do that the Guardians wouldn't allow him to anyway (and I say majority because John should have been there with the rest of them and the excuse they came up with for him not being there made absolutely no sense especially when you read the first arc of the series) decides to take out his frustration on his own friends and recruits to collect their rings even though he didn't even end up doing anything of significance with those rings anyway, killed Sinestro even though Sinestro had already been dead for a very long time, purposely murders one of the best friends he ever had and destroys the Central Power Battery so he could horde all of that energy for himself (all of which was selfish and not only against everything he ever believed in because Hal believes in free will but also went against one of the main criteria for being a GL which is complete honesty and honest people aren't selfish enough to attack and turn their backs on the people they convince and recruit themselves to be GL's just like him)

    Emerald Twilight was ill conceived (it's not the story it was originally supposed to be and even Marz himself has stated in interviews that it was a rush job that he wished he had more than the allotted 3 issues so he could have addressed everything from the previous issues from Jones' run on the GL books and previous continuity properly)
    Personally, I think you are reading it too literally.

    I think that Hal was all hands on deck on issue 46, his mind already working past the destruction of Coast City, and focused on the very present threat of Mongul. Body and mind, he was set and determined to overcome the most immediate conflict.

    Flash forward a few weeks/days/hours later, when he actually feels the emotional toll, and returns to Coast City, seeing it destroyed "for the first time", leading to ET. This is also consistent with how PTSD works.

  6. #786
    Spectacular Member MaxStirner_91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianS View Post
    I think that Hal was all hands on deck on issue 46, his mind already working past the destruction of Coast City, and focused on the very present threat of Mongul. Body and mind, he was set and determined to overcome the most immediate conflict.
    While I'd agree that Hal rapidly moving on from Coast City's destruction in #47 was strange, I don't think it's true that his mind was working past the destruction of Coast City. In the beginning of #46, he doesn't want Mongul because he's the immediate threat but precisely because of what he's done to Coast City. At one point, before finding Mongul, Hal says, "I could tear you apart. No rings. Just my hands--" and his inner monologue when he's facing Mongul reads, "Millions of dead. I hear them screaming. Avenge me."

    Those are absolutely not the thoughts of someone who's calmly and rationally assessing threats but clearly someone who's overcome by emotions. And I think him battling it out with Mongul is a way of Hal processing what had happened. Letting all the anger out.

    What also doesn't make sense about #48 is that why the hell is Hal suddenly mourning Coast City all alone in the midst of the rubble? Where are the heroes? Where is Carol? Where's Ollie? If they just left him to himself under those circumstances, it speaks very poorly of them.
    Last edited by MaxStirner_91; 03-31-2020 at 01:11 AM.

  7. #787
    Extraordinary Member liwanag's Avatar
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    i should have probably posted this in green arrow's thread...

  8. #788
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    ...
    What also doesn't make sense about #48 is that why the hell is Hal suddenly mourning Coast City all alone in the midst of the rubble? Where are the heroes? Where is Carol? Where's Ollie? If they just left him to himself under those circumstances, it speaks very poorly of them.
    Carol was likely mourning as well - Hal wasn't the only one who suffered loss so he should have been there for her as well. All in all, this was just bad editorial decisions leading to writers trying to justify the abrupt change in direction that was dictated to them.

  9. #789
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post






    i should have probably posted this in green arrow's thread...
    Honestly, how many times has Dinah punched Ollie?

  10. #790
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Honestly, how many times has Dinah punched Ollie?
    She's a lot worse than Hank Pym when it comes to domestic abuse.

  11. #791
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    Something that helps me when I read Emerald Twilight is to start at GL 46 then to 47 and next go to Superman #83 which really shows Hal's anger and why he is building towards losing it

    Superman_Vol_2_83.jpg

    Then go onto GL 48-50

  12. #792
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Carol was likely mourning as well - Hal wasn't the only one who suffered loss so he should have been there for her as well. All in all, this was just bad editorial decisions leading to writers trying to justify the abrupt change in direction that was dictated to them.
    Exactly. More work for hire editorial edict. Here is Hal and Carol at the edge of what is left of Coast City. Nothing but a crater and rubble, relieved that they're both okay, but mourning together over Coast City and ready to move on before Carol is reminded that there's something else she needs Hal's help with...


  13. #793
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops1983 View Post
    Something that helps me when I read Emerald Twilight is to start at GL 46 then to 47 and next go to Superman #83 which really shows Hal's anger and why he is building towards losing it

    Superman_Vol_2_83.jpg

    Then go onto GL 48-50
    Thing is that was written after O'Neil's editorial edict came down and the new direction for Emerald Twilight was put in effect which is why they had Hal acting like that. Just like the added dialogue they put in the collected Return of Superman omnibus (which is something editorial almost always does when collecting a major storyline after they decide to change directions from the original printed floppies... look at the collected Infinite Crisis omnibus and how different it is from the original floppies... same with the collected Final Crisis edition and how different it is from the original floppies)
    Last edited by docmidnite; 03-31-2020 at 03:14 PM.

  14. #794
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmidnite View Post
    Thing is that was written after O'Neil's editorial edict came down and the new direction for Emerald Twilight was put in effect which is why they had Hal acting like that. Just like the added dialogue they put in the collected Return of Superman omnibus (which something editorial almost always does when collecting major storyline after they decide to change directions from the original printed floppies... look at the collected Infinite Crisis omnibus and how different it is from the original floppies... same with the collected Final Crisis edition and how different it is from the original floppies)
    Is there anywhere that has a list of the changes, and information from the solicits and more about what the original plans were?

  15. #795
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Is there anywhere that has a list of the changes, and information from the solicits and more about what the original plans were?
    There have been tons of interviews with Jones including an interview with Jones from right here on CBR. The original version of Emerald Twilight (IIRC) was going to have another set of the Guardians "returning" from Zamaron claiming to be the original Guardians that left and claiming that the Guardians who came back at the beginning of volume 3/The Road Back arc were imposters causing confusion in the ranks of the GLC and some lanterns choosing sides leading to a cosmic civil war with Hal stuck in the middle trying to figure things out as they went along.

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