Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2020

[Zaresh]

Do tell...

Also, I don't want to derail the Jason thread but you've mentioned being a fan of Moon Knight a few times previously and I'm kind of curious to see what he's about, I was wondering if there was any particular run you'd recommend?

Besides Red Hood? I think he could write a good Justice League International-like book with second line heroes that allow for ensemble cast stories without putting certain ones over the others. Something less bright and soft... I think he could write a nice run for Hellblazer, even if a run more down to earth than the ones with high magic plots people expect. Huh, what about The Question? Heh, or Huntress?

About Moon Knight.

spoilers:

It depends on what you like: old and pulpy or modern and crazy. MK has very few bad runs, he's one of those C listers that are lucky enough to get good but short runs now and then. What's he like? He's like The Shadow, but in the Marvel Universe. Some dirty mercenary almost dies / actually dies in Egypt saving some people from his current boss and associate, who's an actually big piece of ****. He cames back and decides to fight pieces of **** by being a vigilante, like some watcher spirit of vengeance that he may actually be, to pay for his faults. And, he also hunts monsters and deals with the supernatural. Sometimes he plays de detective too. He creates three identities for this purpose that later on the story evolves into actual different personalities that live within himself: Marc Spector, the mercenary, is the actual character; a man that carries his weighted baggage, he's generally speaking good and has some virtues, but also some very problematic flaws. Steven Grant is a businessman, the handsome and charming one, the nicer one. And Jake Lockley is the street smarts one, the one who deals with the folks and gathers info and allies. He has a developed cast of supporting characters that often suffer from his career either as a vigilante or as a mercenary. He also has a nice rogue gallery that tends to die or suffer ill fates after their story arcs. Like the Shadow, he has a love interest that is in and out his live and struggles with him (but loves him). And then there's Khonshu, that may be an actual good, may be Marc's schizophrenic mind, or may be something else. But see, even if Marc doesn't have powers or is powered by a god, it is sooo weird that he survives so many impossible situations, and has imposible stamina sometimes, and has such good luck (or bad) sometimes... Heh. If you want to take a taste, I always suggest the short run that Ellis wrote back in 1014 (Vol 5): it's six issues long, introduces the character to new readers alright, and you can also taste a bit of everything MK is about nowadays. From issue 7 up to the end of that volume, there're two more writers that I didn't like that much, but were ok. Well, I actually liked Wood's issues plenty, and it was the first time Greg Smallwood worked on MK and he was the main penciller in Lemire's run and oooh, that was some pretty art to look at, during Lemire's run (Vol. 6, the run in 2016). As I say, Lemire's run is also pretty good, but it's a big, big retcon of Moon Knight's whole story that is not the best way you could start reading about the character and is more enjoyable if you've read older comics. Volume 3 (2005) is very grimdark, but it's also a very enjoyable and you get to see why and how Marc screwed his life so much that he ends up kind of isolated in the following volumes. And then the original Moench run is very good if you like the writing style: old school, but good old school. Beyond that, I've read Bendis run that was, er, Bendis run: he did what he wanted and that means disregarding several traits and background facts about the main characters. It was fun, but it wasn't good. At least it introduced Steven as some film producer, which lets be honest, it's a neat and fun thing to do because he's a jewish vigilante doing hollywood movies about his vigilante life and everyone knows it's his. I also read the first two story arcs of Max Bemis run and it was ok, I liked them, but couldn't get into the third one for some reason.

end of spoilers

And I think that's all I can say about MK in a thread that's not about MK.

[RedBird]

Besides Red Hood? I think he could write a good Justice League International-like book with second line heroes that allow for ensemble cast stories without putting certain ones over the others. Something less bright and soft... I think he could write a nice run for Hellblazer, even if a run more down to earth than the ones with high magic plots people expect. Huh, what about The Question? Heh, or Huntress?

Thank you so much for the introduction and recommendations for Moon Knight
Funny enough it was through Rosenbergs Punisher series that I first noticed the character, so I don't know how accurate Rosenbergs version of Moon Knight is but it sure was entertaining. I'll definitely start out with the 2014 series, I've heard quite a lot of good things about that one.

And oh yeah, I can definitely see a Hellblazer series by Rosenberg.

[cc008]

Speaking of Rosenberg, he would absolutely crush a Red Hood title.

[RedBird]

Oh gosh darn.

Looks like Rosenberg is on the Grifter title. Feels like he has written for every character similar to Red Hood except for Red Hood himself.

[Zaresh]

Oh gosh darn.

Looks like Rosenberg is on the Grifter title. Feels like he has written for every character similar to Red Hood except for Red Hood himself.

I saw it a few minutes ago in twitter (when twitter came back). God deary mine, it's coming close, yet still too far. Let it come even closer. Pretty please.

I ask batting my eyelashes.

[RedBird]

God deary mine, it's coming close, yet still too far.

Exactly. It being just out reach, makes it oh so much more painful XD

Its like a monkeys paw, I even said on the previous page that a future DC book might not be out of the question for Rosenberg.
I was right, but at what cost XD If only I had been more specific.

[Rise]

I watched DITF. It was pretty good and the ultimate Jason movie. Didn't expect to see so many different endings and possibilities for Jason.

The best thing about it that it did a great job capturing what made Jason and Bruce's relationship tragic because they were treated as a father and son, not as a mentor and his failed student (which makes the fact that the comics completely shy away from mentioning the "s" word compared to the movie really shameful). Bruce's line about how the crime ally took his parents and how it has given him a son was easily my favourite.

Besides the excellent way they handled Bruce and Jason, they also did a good job with Tim and his inclusion was pretty clever.

[Zaresh]

I watched DITF. It was pretty good and the ultimate Jason movie. Didn't expect to see so many different endings and possibilities for Jason.

The best thing about it that it did a great job capturing what made Jason and Bruce's relationship tragic because they were treated as a father and son, not as a mentor and his failed student (which makes the fact that the comics completely shy away from mentioning the "s" word compared to the movie really shameful). Bruce's line about how the crime ally took his parents and how it has given him a son was easily my favourite.

Besides the excellent way they handled Bruce and Jason, they also did a good job with Tim and his inclusion was pretty clever.

Looks like I'm purchasing that BD as soon as I can.

[RedBird]

I watched DITF. It was pretty good and the ultimate Jason movie. Didn't expect to see so many different endings and possibilities for Jason.

The best thing about it that it did a great job capturing what made Jason and Bruce's relationship tragic because they were treated as a father and son, not as a mentor and his failed student (which makes the fact that the comics completely shy away from mentioning the "s" word compared to the movie really shameful). Bruce's line about how the crime ally took his parents and how it has given him a son was easily my favourite.

Besides the excellent way they handled Bruce and Jason, they also did a good job with Tim and his inclusion was pretty clever.

Yeah agreed, the fact that this film completely embraced the Father and Son relationship between Bruce and Jason, definitely made it a highlight of the experience. I genuinely lost count of how many times Bruce calls Jason his son, or refers to himself as a father in this film.

Modern comics really are pitiful by comparison, and their insistence on shying away from the father and son relationship doesn't even make sense since it only ends up destroying a lot of the Pathos that is the very essence of the tragedy in DITF, UTRH, and even in the characters of Bruce and Jason.

All the paths broke my heart in different ways, but spoilers:

in the path where Bruce dies, and he utters the words 'I love you son' to Jason. Alternate take or not, that one really got me. You rarely ever hear Bruce saying 'I love you' like that, especially to Jason nowadays.

end of spoilers

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I had forgotten about DITF.

Personally, I found it thoroughly mediocre. There's five major paths but ultimately only one doesn't end up being a rehash of UTRH with a different costume, the writing is also all over the place with some decisions ignoring the internal logic presented in the original UTRH story (since is the baseline for the whole thing) just to create shocking moments or drama, while other options outright throw away any character development Jason goes through that specific pathline for the aforementioned reasons. Brandon Vietti also seems to enjoy punishing Jason (and the viewers for association) any time he picks the "good" choices while the "evil" ones lead to the better outcomes. All branches have their high and lows but the Hush one is certainly the worst of the bunch, being entirely lineal and the writing coming off like a self indulgent fanfiction that goes hard into "Jason is an angsty badass that can't be stopped" and makes every other character look like complete morons.

The animation is also pretty poor with a bunch of scenes that are just slideshows while an off-frame voice narrates what's happening. Also as I mentioned before, like 60% of the total runtime is just rehashed scenes from UTRH with the only big differences being what costume Jason is wearing and the addition of some explicit (and at times, gratuitous) gore. The voice acting is pretty good, even if that is mostly to DiMaggio doing an astounding job as The Joker since Bruce Greenwood has very few lines and while Martella does a decent job as a teenager Jason, he's horribly miscast as Red Hood, and having him redub an entire scene from UtRH just highlights how poor of a replacement he is for Ackles.

As others have mentioned, the absolute best part of the film is how hard it leans on Bruce seeing Jason as his son, that unsurprisingly, takes the front seat during the UtRH recap.

Ultimately the film was slightly better than what I expected but my expectations were low to begin with, so isn't that big of a feat, still a nice addition to the collection of any Jason fan but UtRH continues to reign as both the definitive animated appearance of Jason and the best modern DC animated film.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I just finished reading the Adventure Continues.

Well that was an incredibly underwhelming retelling of UTRH, especially because it never did even a token attempt at trying to handwave Jason's existence in the BTAS universe. Pretty disappointing compared to how clever was the integration of JPV and AzBats.

[Sergard]

Giannis Milonogiannis

"see you in January"




Joshua Williamson

"I also did a RED HOOD story for Future State that was drawn by @musashinoelegy
and colored by Jordie Bellaire. I don't think I can show off the art yet but they made something really beautiful and rad."

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...37461223419904

Ohhhh boy, the costume is even worse than I thought.

[Sergard]

Shawn Martinbrough

"Demetrius Korlee, Jr. in #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins /Stefano Gaudiano, Colors by Paul Mounts w/lettering by Troy Peteri. Covers A & B by @Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."

[Sergard]

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...37461223419904

Ohhhh boy, the costume is even worse than I thought.

I don't really see much of Jason's costume. The bike is cool though.

Is Jason chasing Vigilante?