Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2020

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

What are the differences?
I only noticed that the pose of the woman looks different but maybe there was a last minute edit for that part in Red Hood/Arsenal #2.

That's the difference. If is an older take of the page I posted, why share a pic of it after 4 years and in the middle of teases for future issues? It doesn't make sense.

[Sergard]

That's the difference. If is an older take of the page I posted, why share a pic of it after 4 years and in the middle of teases for future issues? It doesn't make sense.

Because it has Jason and Roy in it?
There aren't a lot of alternatives. Theoretically, Pantalena could also re-create that panel in one of the next issues but why should he re-create everything? For example, that woman is completely irrelevant for the current story arc.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Because it has Jason and Roy in it?
There aren't a lot of alternatives. Theoretically, Pantalena could also re-create that panel in one of the next issues but why should he re-create everything? For example, that woman is completely irrelevant for the current story arc.

We're having time travel next, is not that far out there to assume we're getting meta and we'll see the current Outlaws travel in time and falling into old stories. Anyone read Homestuck? Think of what happened to John when he got retcon powers.

Anyways, DCeased as whole was a solid story but as a Jason one was pretty disappointing. He doesn't anything of note beyond getting knocked out. At least he survived.

[Blue22]

Jason may not have done much but I couldn't resist smiling when Jim called him Batman's son

[sifighter]

spoilers:

Genuinely I’m glad Jason made it out of this series alive, it means that we may soon see a good reunion between him and Damian when he returns to earth in the sequel

end of spoilers

[Zaresh]

Jason may not have done much but I couldn't resist smiling when Jim called him Batman's son

Is it me, or does Jim feel responsible for Jason as some kind of surrogate father?

I have yet to read this issue. I'm glad to hear about Jason's fate, but I have to agree with Dark_T: he had not much of a relevance for the last issues except the first and in the second for a little bit moment. Cass had more emotional relevance, and she didn't have a lot either. Rose was almost in Jason levels of relevance, if not worse. The young-ish characters were the weakest link in the plot, not much more than excuses for the old, parental age characters' drama and struggles.

But I still have to read the last issue.

Edited again: already read it. It was a good last issue. Enjoyable read for the whole story, around 6.5 out of 10 for me.

[Aahz]

Anyways, DCeased as whole was a solid story but as a Jason one was pretty disappointing. He doesn't anything of note beyond getting knocked out. At least he survived.

Which is wired with how prominent he was on the covers.

But it was kind of similar with Taylors Injustice 2 Series, he brought Jason in as the Fake-Batman early in the series and then never really did anything with him.

[Jackalope89]

You guys did forget a few things, if kind of minor;

Jason buried Bruce, Dick, and Tim.
Was actually in the family portrait.
Rescued the puppy.
Teamed up with Cass (finally).
Strapped Joker's body to the Batmobile like a hood ornament.

[sifighter]

You guys did forget a few things, if kind of minor;

Jason buried Bruce, Dick, and Tim.
Was actually in the family portrait.
Rescued the puppy.
Teamed up with Cass (finally).
Strapped Joker's body to the Batmobile like a hood ornament.

He also protected and trained at least 30-40 orphans and helped get them to safety along with the rest of the survivors. I mean he did drive the batmobile through a horde of anti-life to safety until Wonder Woman stomped him...literally.

[Zaresh]

You guys did forget a few things, if kind of minor;

Jason buried Bruce, Dick, and Tim.
Was actually in the family portrait.
Rescued the puppy.
Teamed up with Cass (finally).
Strapped Joker's body to the Batmobile like a hood ornament.

All of this happens in half an issue. And has almost no impact after it happens.

He is an excuse for (cool) things to happen, but emotionally has little impact in the story (I mean, most of the time, you could use any other character and the story would still work as it was), The most important part of his actions, emotionally speaking, are his parts in the first issue up until they reach the orphanage, his blink and you miss relationship scenes with Rose, and when he sees Billy and stops for a second to realize of how sad the whole circumstances are.

Cass, Jim and Slade are the ones that carry the weight of the story, followed by Shiva. The rest are just there doing things sometimes. I've the feeling that Taylor struggles a little with ensemble casts so doesn't surprise for me. But with all tose characters, it's a tough job making them all eve in such a short book.

[Sergard]

Is it me, or does Jim feel responsible for Jason as some kind of surrogate father?

Probably a little bit. Jim has lost Barbara. He's not going to let the kid of a close friend (= Batman) die too. It's a little heartbreaking when he refers to Rose as "your girl" because he's probably thinking of his own girl at that moment. "We've lost enough kids" probably also doesn't just refer to the orphans that were killed by Mirror Master in the bus but also to Barbara.

I have yet to read this issue. I'm glad to hear about Jason's fate, but I have to agree with Dark_T: he had not much of a relevance for the last issues except the first and in the second for a little bit moment. Cass had more emotional relevance, and she didn't have a lot either. Rose was almost in Jason levels of relevance, if not worse. The young-ish characters were the weakest link in the plot, not much more than excuses for the old, parental age characters' drama and struggles.

But I still have to read the last issue.

Edited again: already read it. It was a good last issue. Enjoyable read for the whole story, around 6.5 out of 10 for me.

I actually thought that DCeased: Unkillables was well-balanced, giving attention to everyone - especially to those who died in the end, at least some small but strong emotional moments.
I think it's fine that the survivors didn't have any big moments in the last issue - we'll see them again later on. Unkillables #3 was about cherishing the fallen comrades who gave there life to save the others.

Generally, I enjoyed the character cast. The group - although normally full of moral diversity - harmonized pretty well. Villains, anti-heroes, a hero, a cop and a bunch of kids vs a zombie apocalypse are a surprisingly great team.

I also low-key enjoy it that both Unkillables and RHatO have Jason being (partly) responsible for a bunch of kids.

[Zaresh]

I don't know @Sergard, but I don't think we will see much of Jim, Jason, Cass or Rose in future stories. Taylor has plenty of characters he can use and likes more for whatever follows unkillables. My bet is that we will see Damian, Jon, Mary Marvel (superhero kids), Harley, Ivy and Constantine (adults) as the leads for it, and the others either background characters or meat to be killed. I may be wrong, but it's what I'm expecting.

As I said before somewhere in this thread, his writing doesn't get me very engaged in the read, and his drama and calls for emotional feelings don't trigger much of an effect for me (I've been feeling the same since Injustice). And art was on a style that I don't like. But it was an ok read, so I'm glad that it was published. And it's good if you guys liked it more (more series are going to be published within this universe, I guess untill next year spring or so: it's crazy popular, it seems).

[sifighter]

I don't know @Sergard, but I don't think we will see much of Jim, Jason, Cass or Rose in future stories. Taylor has plenty of characters he can use and likes more for whatever follows unkillables. My bet is that we will see Damian, Jon, Mary Marvel (superhero kids), Harley, Ivy and Constantine (adults) as the leads for it, and the others either background characters or meat to be killed. I may be wrong, but it's what I'm expecting.

As I said before somewhere in this thread, his writing doesn't get me very engaged in the read, and his drama and calls for emotional feelings don't trigger much of an effect for me. And art was on a style that I don't like. But it was an ok read, so I'm glad that it was published. And happy, if you guys liked it more.

I don't quite agree. I just can't see why Taylor would pick to skip over Jason in Dead Planet when it would be literally written as Damian/Batman reuniting with his last "brother" or family member outside Alfred. Yes Gordon and Cassandra will be there, but I would expect a much closer connection with Jason, and I would say the same for Jason who had to bury Tim, Dick, and Bruce. I would expect a "last two sons of Batman" moment.

I do expect Mary Marvel to play a much bigger role though. That is gonna be some much needed fire power against zombie Wonder Woman and I'm suspecting golden sun Undead Superman. I mean come on, its Superman literally eating the sun. If he doesn't come back powered up Taylor will have genuinely surprised me, so we will need Cassie/Wonder Woman, Mary Marvel, Jon, and Doctor Fate for this.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

At this point is obvious that Taylor is more interested in writing female characters than male ones. DCeased was mostly told through Lois POV and Unkillables was Mary's story. so I don't expect the trend to be any different in Dead Planet.

[Zaresh]

I don't quite agree. I just can't see why Taylor would pick to skip over Jason in Dead Planet when it would be literally written as Damian/Batman reuniting with his last "brother" or family member outside Alfred. Yes Gordon and Cassandra will be there, but I would expect a much closer connection with Jason, and I would say the same for Jason who had to bury Tim, Dick, and Bruce. I would expect a "last two sons of Batman" moment.

I do expect Mary Marvel to play a much bigger role though. That is gonna be some much needed fire power against zombie Wonder Woman and I'm suspecting golden sun Undead Superman. I mean come on, its Superman literally eating the sun. If he doesn't come back powered up Taylor will have genuinely surprised me, so we will need Cassie/Wonder Woman, Mary Marvel, Jon, and Doctor Fate for this.

At this point is obvious that Taylor is more interested in writing female characters than male ones. DCeased was mostly told through Lois POV and Unkillables was Mary's story. so I don't expect the trend to be any different in Dead Planet.

Grrr, I've lost al least 200 words of post while I was writing this.

_{Sorry if my writing isn't the finest: I'm tired now, it's pretty late and I tend to struggle with English when I'm tired.}

To the point then.
I don't think it's a matter of being more interested in female characters, as much as it's that he doesn't know what to do with Jason (or Tim, or maybe even Dick and Babs from the Bats). He clearly enjoys writing Damian, even when he makes him going through some serious drama: he cares for the character and feels like he's having fun writing him. Has written many other male characters before, like Clark or Bruce or Oliver, and has done things with them. And here, he did a pretty readable Slade, who had an arc with motivations and realizations, for as short as this story was. He has his faves, and characters he has ideas for, and that's all.

But I don't think he has any big ideas for Jason. I actually though he had killed him during DCeased, offscreen, without mentioning it, until he wrote that tweet about having an idea for Jason and a sequel after the really positive response over that really, really cool variant cover for DCeased.

The reason why I think he won't write any kind of relevant interaction between Damian and Jason in Dead Planet is because he could have done that twice now, and he didn't. He had it easy in Injustice, and it amount to nothing. He could have used Jason as some kind of aid for Damian in DCeased, using Jason being distant, sort of on his own, from the Bats as some kind of excuse, and again, Taylor chose to use other characters for that task. So I can see Damian having his memento for the family moment with Cass over Jason.

I think that there is a limit to the number of characters that you can use in a relatively short series if you want then to have any kind of reasonable dramatic arc, melodrama, or plot importance (well, maybe not for that last one). We know Damian, Cassie and Jon are going to be tree of those main characters, and I'm counting on him using Mary and Harley too. With Harley, you're going to have Ivy. That makes six main characters for a limited series. That's a lot, if you also add a few villains to the mix. Maybe add someone from the new inbetween digital comic. The rest are going to either be support characters with one or two scenes or be cannon fodder for the new threat (this is an action series, so there's going to be some threat). I can see him using Constantine, but maybe he uses Fate. Mmm, and there's Zatanna too. So many characters from the magic side... It's going to mean something.

Mmmm... I read someone (can't remember who or where) comment that it could be cool if Taylor writes a story about the "hero team" coming back to Earth to find that the survivors are honouring a group of villains as their heroes. I think that's something that Taylor could try, to be honest. It's interesting and original, and could be a fun read.