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  1. #2446
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    The last time I know was in New 52 where Harley's earliest appearance alongside Joker, Batman and Robin was dated 5 years ago, the same year Joker and Dick Grayson Robin debuted.

    Yeah that doesn't make sense unless he went to Arkham as a child since Arkham, at least in the game, also has a treatment facility for civilians. The only time Jason went to Arkham in canon was during Dick's time as Batman and no matter which continuity that's way after she became Harley and won't be able to publicly practice.
    In Rhato rebirth issue #4, Jason mentions 'Dr Quinzel' and having therapy sessions in Arkham, though in the suicide squad arc he seems wary of Harley.
    It's an easily ignored reference, and as you mentioned she would have been unable to practise by the time Jason ends up in Arkham.

    Though this could also be interpreted as Jason only speaking of Harley in a formal way as Doctor Quinzel since the context of the scene is that he is taking professional advice she offered him once, in a moment where he needs to apply it.
    And if that's the case then the reference from rhato could still work if it's interpreted as Jasons interaction with Harley being less of a patient and doctor scenario and more so with the two of them as patients in Arkham, attending group therapy sessions where Harley, no doubt, did most of the talking.

  2. #2447
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    There were passing mentions here and there that in the N52 reimagined events of the Under the Red Hood, Bruce locked Jason in Arkham for a brief period of time before he escaped and left Gotham, leading to the events of RHATO #1.
    Oh that reminds me, I've been meaning to ask, In the New 52 version of UTRH, did Batman aim for the neck or wrist? or does that never revisited?

  3. #2448
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Oh that reminds me, I've been meaning to ask, In the New 52 version of UTRH, did Batman aim for the neck or wrist? or does that never revisited?
    I think that's something we don't know. The whole Under The Hood time is quite vague. It happened, sort of the same way, it's implied. But not described to details, as far as I know.
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  4. #2449
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.

  5. #2450
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.
    In the comics, at least, they had their plates full with what was happening in Blüdhaven, and was had been going for Dick that year and the year before, as far as I recall. I guess it would've broken the mood they were setting for Dick there, if he were to Gotham and help Bruce for too long.
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  6. #2451
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.
    I'm glad Dick is not a big part of the UtRH story. He's a horrible character.
    Battle for the Cowl and Morrison's Batman & Robin run were bad enough.

  7. #2452
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.
    I think Dick and Jason not having a proper meeting and confrontation, after UTRH is perhaps a bit of a missed opportunity, though the same could be said of Barbara and Jason not having a confrontation after UTRH, she is after all, referenced in the very climax of the story during Jasons monologue for why Joker should be put down. With that said though, I certainly don't see how a lack of interaction or in this case a 'proper meeting' between Dick and Jason during UTRH could in any way be seen as a flaw in the story, let alone the 'biggest' flaw. I find it to be quite the opposite actually.

    Jasons time as robin was largely spent with only Bruce (and Alfred), his story of revenge was focused on Gotham, Batman and the Joker, and the pathos of the story hinges on his relationship with Bruce, it wouldn't even really make sense to insert any other batfamily members too heavily into the story or feature a 'proper' confrontation between them and Jason, since aside from Alfred none of them had close relations with Jason to begin with and therefore would not have served the story or the specific pathos it's building upon. For all of the grandiose elements and events that occur in UTRH, it ultimately all comes down to a very intimate clash and drama between a father and son, trying to shove any other characters into that interplay would have most likely only hurt the story or distracted from it.

    In the case of UTRH, the fact that it largely ignores the Batfamily members and/or keeps their roles small, is definitely a positive, as it allows for more focus on the main themes of the story and the characters that ACTUALLY matter here, Bruce and Jason.
    Last edited by RedBird; 10-24-2020 at 09:31 AM.

  8. #2453
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    @Dark: Are any Three Jokers #3 spoilers out yet?

  9. #2454
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    There doesn't even seem to be a preview out for it yet.

  10. #2455
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Shawn Martinbrough

    "I can check these two items off my bucket list. Introducing Dana Harlowe & King Kati rolls to the DCU in #REDHOOD #51. Art by @Tony8Akins & Stefano Gaudiano. Colors by @paulmounts. Covers by Danmora_c & @KaelNgu. Written by me & published by @DCComics. In stores Nov."

    Last edited by Sergard; 10-24-2020 at 10:49 AM.

  11. #2456
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    From the little we saw, there was no sadistic choice since Dick actually helped Bruce this time and maybe he was even the one to beat Jason. Honestly, Dick missing a proper meeting with Jason during UtRH is one of the story's biggest flaws.
    Whoa. So that one flashback was the only one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    In the comics, at least, they had their plates full with what was happening in Blüdhaven, and was had been going for Dick that year and the year before, as far as I recall. I guess it would've broken the mood they were setting for Dick there, if he were to Gotham and help Bruce for too long.
    His leg hasn't healed so he took a leave from Bludhaven. Tim and Cass went there in his stead. After the first part of UTRH Dick went undercover as a mob enforcer, nicknamed Crutch because of his leg, with the purpose of arranging events so the mob stay away from Bludhaven. He succeeded. He also met Deathstroke and trained Rose while pretending to have rejected Batman. Dick successfully get Rose on his side and go against her father, so Slade decided as revenge to drop Chemo on Bludhaven, and that happened during the second part of UTRH right. At this point he's out of town with the Titans when the OMAC became active. Tim also joined the Teen Titans to fight OMAC. So they all safe.

  12. #2457
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBird View Post
    I think Dick and Jason not having a proper meeting and confrontation, after UTRH is perhaps a bit of a missed opportunity, though the same could be said of Barbara and Jason not having a confrontation after UTRH, she is after all, referenced in the very climax of the story during Jasons monologue for why Joker should be put down. With that said though, I certainly don't see how a lack of interaction or in this case a 'proper meeting' between Dick and Jason during UTRH could in any way be seen as a flaw in the story, let alone the 'biggest' flaw. I find it to be quite the opposite actually.

    Jasons time as robin was largely spent with only Bruce (and Alfred), his story of revenge was focused on Gotham, Batman and the Joker, and the pathos of the story hinges on his relationship with Bruce, it wouldn't even really make sense to insert any other batfamily members too heavily into the story or feature a 'proper' confrontation between them and Jason, since aside from Alfred none of them had close relations with Jason to begin with and therefore would not have served the story or the specific pathos it's building upon. For all of the grandiose elements and events that occur in UTRH, it ultimately all comes down to a very intimate clash and drama between a father and son, trying to shove any other characters into that interplay would have most likely only hurt the story or distracted from it.

    In the case of UTRH, the fact that it largely ignores the Batfamily members and/or keeps their roles small, is definitely a positive, as it allows for more focus on the main themes of the story and the characters that ACTUALLY matter here, Bruce and Jason.
    You said it best. Dick has no place in UTRH and shouldn't be given more since he has nothing to do with it.

    I would also say that Jason suddenly obsessing with the batfamily after UTRH made zero sense
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  13. #2458
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    You said it best. Dick has no place in UTRH and shouldn't be given more since he has nothing to do with it.

    I would also say that Jason suddenly obsessing with the batfamily after UTRH made zero sense
    Tim I could see conflicted feelings on. The first being replaced by him, the other would be anger at having another kid put in harm's way so recklessly. But even then, that wouldn't require a violent confrontation, let alone what happened pre-Flashpoint.

  14. #2459
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBird View Post
    I think Dick and Jason not having a proper meeting and confrontation, after UTRH is perhaps a bit of a missed opportunity, though the same could be said of Barbara and Jason not having a confrontation after UTRH, she is after all, referenced in the very climax of the story during Jasons monologue for why Joker should be put down. With that said though, I certainly don't see how a lack of interaction or in this case a 'proper meeting' between Dick and Jason during UTRH could in any way be seen as a flaw in the story, let alone the 'biggest' flaw. I find it to be quite the opposite actually.

    Jasons time as robin was largely spent with only Bruce (and Alfred), his story of revenge was focused on Gotham, Batman and the Joker, and the pathos of the story hinges on his relationship with Bruce, it wouldn't even really make sense to insert any other batfamily members too heavily into the story or feature a 'proper' confrontation between them and Jason, since aside from Alfred none of them had close relations with Jason to begin with and therefore would not have served the story or the specific pathos it's building upon. For all of the grandiose elements and events that occur in UTRH, it ultimately all comes down to a very intimate clash and drama between a father and son, trying to shove any other characters into that interplay would have most likely only hurt the story or distracted from it.

    In the case of UTRH, the fact that it largely ignores the Batfamily members and/or keeps their roles small, is definitely a positive, as it allows for more focus on the main themes of the story and the characters that ACTUALLY matter here, Bruce and Jason.
    Well, that too. It would've lost the focus from the actual story that was being told, yep.
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  15. #2460
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    You said it best. Dick has no place in UTRH and shouldn't be given more since he has nothing to do with it.

    I would also say that Jason suddenly obsessing with the batfamily after UTRH made zero sense
    Agreed.

    The random obsession was quite a degradation and misunderstanding of his character that ignored both the nuances of Jasons plight and his deeply personal relationship with Bruce.

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