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  1. #7771
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The92Ghost View Post
    This wasn't a business trip, first. Second, he lost his memories. Third, Storm loves him enough to tell him that she understands him. I don't see the issue. I would really like to see how all of you would react or handle such a thing in real life. If the love of your life lost their memories and he or she is still getting their memories back slowly. Would you really blame them for what they did during their memory loss?

    As far for the concubine part, I don't agree that Storm did something wrong because if someone loves someone else you cannot erase those emotions with simple words. I've been there, went through all that and I do understand Storm on that front. I would have probably reacted the same way. What she did, she did it with good intentions to give T'Challa time to resolve his love and make his choice. She didn't give him to another woman. She gave him time to remember and make his choice, to make the choice of who he really loves. She didn't want to pressure him, he already had enough on his mind. Plus at the end, we can see that he choose Storm because his love for Ororo is stronger.
    He didn't get a choice, Nakia died. And he had his full memories back before he made it home. We're not blaming him for what he did without his memories. We are saying that Storm offered him to another women when she can't be there and as "jwatson" would say, she did it because she saw his a a weak man. Which is full on what Coates has been pushing about men since his first issue.

    If Storm thought there was something Tchalla needed to work out emotionally, she would have told him that she was going to return to Krakoa and he should come to her when his mind is made. But then Coates would have been lost on how to move the plot and giveWakanda Prime a chance to win without her there. lol
    Last edited by Cville; 10-12-2020 at 08:43 AM.

  2. #7772
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And Storm is in a different place right now. My biggest issue with Tchalla/Storm, he gets all the man splaining from readers and Storm is the interloper in his books that should just take what she gets.

    The more the conversation goes on the more Vita did the right thing.
    Hehehe ok bruh really, "man-splaining"? Also judging by this particular comment you made it seems your hidden angst should be towards either the fans or marvel editorial, no ones using or saying storm is an "interloper" nor saying she should take what she gets when in appearance in Black Panthers books. We're not going to do this bias bullshizzle and by the logic you used that same can apply for storm in the X books in terms of "taking what she gets", you're comparing apples to oranges man and I'm sure that you know that these writers have no real power in certain story directions because judging by what Marvell2100 basically said if it was up to Liss then Storm would be right there with Tchalla in the action but it didn't happen and in terms of Vita doing "the right thing" is subjective because nothing about that story made any logical sense other than to have storm steal an "ancient artifact" just so she can participate in an event with the other Xmen that won't have any real consequences on the MU and is just basically Apocalypse dealing with his toxic ex and other family that want him dead. Most BP fans want nothing to do wit storm and see her as this "interloper" because those tools in the x camp have some grudge against characters outside that team especially BP and its getting damn well annoying, like geez man you keep bringing up that Liss run as some vengeful talking point when CVille and Marvell2100 pretty much agreed that Storm should've gone with TChalla during that event. It's really not that big of a deal.

  3. #7773
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekk80s View Post
    Hehehe ok bruh really, "man-splaining"? Also judging by this particular comment you made it seems your hidden angst should be towards either the fans or marvel editorial, no ones using or saying storm is an "interloper" nor saying she should take what she gets when in appearance in Black Panthers books. We're not going to do this bias bullshizzle and by the logic you used that same can apply for storm in the X books in terms of "taking what she gets", you're comparing apples to oranges man and I'm sure that you know that these writers have no real power in certain story directions because judging by what Marvell2100 basically said if it was up to Liss then Storm would be right there with Tchalla in the action but it didn't happen and in terms of Vita doing "the right thing" is subjective because nothing about that story made any logical sense other than to have storm steal an "ancient artifact" just so she can participate in an event with the other Xmen that won't have any real consequences on the MU and is just basically Apocalypse dealing with his toxic ex and other family that want him dead. Most BP fans want nothing to do wit storm and see her as this "interloper" because those tools in the x camp have some grudge against characters outside that team especially BP and its getting damn well annoying, like geez man you keep bringing up that Liss run as some vengeful talking point when CVille and Marvell2100 pretty much agreed that Storm should've gone with TChalla during that event. It's really not that big of a deal.
    The thing is Storm and the character's fans should take what they can get lol. She's a side character in the BP books, a tool to support the main hero the same way Mera is for Aquaman or Dorma was for Namor back when he had a solo. This is how it is for every single love interest in solo comics, they're agency and development is secondary to the man or woman whose name is on the title. Doesn't mean a character like Mera or War Machine don't get long-term development and plenty of moments to shine, but it's still an Aquaman/Captain Marvel book and they're the ones getting all the juicy stuff.

    The only way Storm's status changes is if the Black Panther solo is changed to Black Panther and Storm or just World of Wakanda, where they'd operate as relative equals like Black Bolt and Medusa. And obviously BP fans don't want that because we want a strong solo book where he gets most of the attention and Marvel doesn't want that because they want to have an original black male hero in a solo book, not a permanent ensemble or team-up. Which is why Storm fans will never truly be satisfied with her place next to T'Challa because she will never, nor does she deserve, equal billing in his book. This is reason #1000 why these two don't work together, Storm should be the dominant one in whatever relationship she's in, her credentials justify her being the A-lister and the man she's with being secondary. That can't happen if she's with T'Challa.

  4. #7774
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    Honestly let's be real here and get this out the way, in terms of the relationship between Ororro and TChalla and as a fan of both characters said relationship is not the real problem here. Some storm fans make it seem like the BP team was holding her character back which in fact is the complete opposite because the BP team did they're job on they're end elevating Ro as much as they could and nothing was stopping the X camp from using storm in Xmen related plots marriage or not. I can understand as a BP fan why the others are fed up with the relationship though not because of Ororro herself but the fact it's clear the X camp had no respect for they're relationship and I've mentioned this before that's why I say that Storm fans should keep they're expectations low in terms of these empty promises for developing her character by the same jobbers that writing the stories. The real question is, What was stopping the X camp from using Ro in big Xmen plots even after the annulment what was the excuse? Simple, they had no excuse because it's clear they have no direction for her even after Claremont and i understand the book is called "Xmen" no shih but that shouldn't keep these clowns from making these characters matter in plot points, Storm fan or not you cannot justify the bullcrap in any sense that the X writers try to pull because people see through the bullcrap now. Storm is the most recognizable and popular female character that marvel has but if that's the case then what's the writers excuse, Ororro is being held back aight but definitely not by Black panther.
    Last edited by Mekk80s; 10-12-2020 at 10:13 AM.

  5. #7775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekk80s View Post
    Honestly let's be real here and get this out the way, in terms of the relationship between Ororro and TChalla and as a fan of both characters said relationship is not the real problem here. Some storm fans make it seem like the BP team was holding her character back which in fact is the complete opposite because the BP team did they're job on they're end elevating Ro as much as they could and nothing was stopping the X camp from using storm in Xmen related plots marriage or not. I can understand as a BP fan why the others are fed up with the relationship though not because of Ororro herself but the fact it's clear the X camp had no respect for they're relationship and I've mentioned this before that's why I say that Storm fans should keep they're expectations low in terms of these empty promises for developing her character by the same jobbers that writing the stories. The real question is, What was stopping the X camp from using Ro in big Xmen plots even after the annulment what was the excuse? Simple, they had no excuse because it's clear they have no direction for her even after Claremont and i understand the book is called "Xmen" no shih but that shouldn't keep these clowns from making these characters matter in plot points, Storm fan or not you cannot justify the bullcrap in any sense that the X writers try to pull because people see through the bullcrap now. Storm is the most recognizable and popular female character that marvel has but if that's the case then what's the writers excuse, Ororro is being held back aight but definitely not by Black panther.
    And all this implies storm fans felt she needed to be elevated well I wasn't. I was happy with the storm stories I was reading and just got off a great run of xtreme when storm was ripped from the xbooks and given to bp as his wife. I know I wasn't clamoring for it and storm took a big hit after that and if the bp books were trying to claim here and elevate her they would have given her a book. Instead they took her from main character to dutiful wife that had to fall back when her husband wanted to feel like a man. Your right it's cool. It's not that serious. I'm just glad it's over.

    I had no interest in bl before the wedding and could care less so none of that did anything to me as a fan of storm and the x-men.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  6. #7776
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLY360 View Post
    Attachment 101353

    When is Black Panther #23 coming out?
    This cover looks AMAZING!

  7. #7777
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And all this implies storm fans felt she needed to be elevated well I wasn't. I was happy with the storm stories I was reading and just got off a great run of xtreme when storm was ripped from the xbooks and given to bp as his wife. I know I wasn't clamoring for it and storm took a big hit after that and if the bp books were trying to claim here and elevate her they would have given her a book. Instead they took her from main character to dutiful wife that had to fall back when her husband wanted to feel like a man. Your right it's cool. It's not that serious. I'm just glad it's over.

    I had no interest in bl before the wedding and could care less so none of that did anything to me as a fan of storm and the x-men.
    You're only proving my point even more man, Storm didn't get "snatched" out the xmen books. You keep bringing up the wife thing but that shouldn't have stopped the writers in the x camp from using her character because at the end of the day she's an X character and Hudlin wasn't keeping storm away from the X team in any regard, I don't care if you weren't a BP fan before the marriage that's irrelevant because even then storm was still involved with BP even before that event and as an x men fan you should hold these writers in charge accountable to make her character of importance that's why i mention "post Claremont" Storm and BP didn't get married till 06 and by that time Claremont had stepped down as active writer for the team. Using the marriage as an excuse to why storm wasn't being developed in the Xmen series is not going to work bub. I will agree the execution on Hudlins behalf wasn't great by any terms but let's not start this narrative that him being approved to marry the two was the reason for your gripes, like i said Storm is still an X character and who her suiter is/was shouldn't stop the character from being major. I don't play the blame game but at the same time i call a spade when i see a spade.
    Last edited by Mekk80s; 10-12-2020 at 11:06 AM.

  8. #7778

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    Hudlin definitely snatched her up, don't get it twisted. Claremont would have never let her go without orders from the top. I mean, have you read that annual where she leaves the team? He did not want that story.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  9. #7779
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Hudlin definitely snatched her up, don't get it twisted. Claremont would have never let her go without orders from the top. I mean, have you read that annual where she leaves the team? He did not want that story.
    He said, he requested her and they approved. If they didn't, he would have picked a different person. Maybe Claremont didn't fight to keep her.

  10. #7780

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    He said, he requested her and they approved. If they didn't, he would have picked a different person. Maybe Claremont didn't fight to keep her.
    Hudlin promised a BP cartoon on BET. Quesada accepted (even though the motion comic ended up not being approved for American broadcast). This went over Claremont's head.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  11. #7781
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Hudlin promised a BP cartoon on BET. Quesada accepted (even though the motion comic ended up not being approved for American broadcast). This went over Claremont's head.
    I would say the blame is on Marvel upper management then. As so many people have mentioned, Storm being involved with BP really did not need to change her presence in the X-Books. The only stories that should have been blocked were other romantic plots, but I don't think she was being paired with anyone in the X-books anyway.

  12. #7782
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    Hudlin didn't keep Storm from being used by Claremont. Hudlin didn't keep Storm from being used by Fraction. The xoffices simply didn't want to show her in a leadership capacity as that would have gone against the vision of the books then which was showing Cyclops as the sole leader of mutantkind. This is evident by Wolverine inclusion in multiple books across the different franchises. Its easy to use hudlin as a scapegoat but the blame should be directed at the xoffices and the leadership there.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #7783

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    Claremont literally had her negotiate a global mandate for her team with the UN Security Council. She was leading the f out of her team.

    Quesada clearly ripped her from Claremont's grasp as a bargaining chip to increase BP's IP while simultaneously throwing the X-Men into the garbage disposal with his "no more mutants" mandate after Morrison screwed the pooch in his run and Fox's movie rights made things difficult just as the MCU was in its initial development.

    You have to see the business shifts behind the 'creative decisions'. Quesada was behind the Marvel Knights line of the late 90's, where BP was rehabilitated and modernized in the Priest run (which also revisited the romance that had not been mentioned in-continuity since the originating team up story, though Alex Ross's Earth X did remind readers about the pairing in 1999). He had a personal interest in seeing BP expand his pop cultural impact. If the executive of BET promises a cartoon on his network in exchange for creative license, of course he'll let him have Storm.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  14. #7784
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Claremont literally had her negotiate a global mandate for her team with the UN Security Council. She was leading the f out of her team.

    Quesada clearly ripped her from Claremont's grasp as a bargaining chip to increase BP's IP while simultaneously throwing the X-Men into the garbage disposal with his "no more mutants" mandate after Morrison screwed the pooch in his run and Fox's movie rights made things difficult just as the MCU was in its initial development.

    You have to see the business shifts behind the 'creative decisions'. Quesada was behind the Marvel Knights line of the late 90's, where BP was rehabilitated and modernized in the Priest run (which also revisited the romance that had not been mentioned in-continuity since the originating team up story, though Alex Ross's Earth X did remind readers about the pairing in 1999). He had a personal interest in seeing BP expand his pop cultural impact. If the executive of BET promises a cartoon on his network in exchange for creative license, of course he'll let him have Storm.
    Thank you for the details. Yet people still act like bp saved storm from something and elevated her stays. Please she was already running the team. If not for storm he would not have gotten a third of the promotion he got at the time. I know I never would have checked out his books. Storm didn't gain anything it was a pure boost to bp and people can blame the xbooks all they want all I know is it went xtreme, new status quo for her then boom retold backstory and if her backstory can be retold in bp then it's fair game for wakandas to be changed in a book she appears in x or not. Then she was in ff and everywhere but the x-men on bps look at my wife tour.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  15. #7785

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    I think both narratives are true. Storm WAS ripped from the X-men, and she floundered in BP. However even had she not been stolen, Storm was doomed in the XMen anyway. Claremont was the only one who cared about the character and would have fought for her place at the table. No other writer or editor at the time cared about the character circa 2005. Its obvious cause when she was brought back into the Xmen fold circa the Extremist arc in UXM, she was still just kinda there. Played no major role in AvX, Schism, Messiah Compkex, etc. It boggles the mind how superfluous she was.

    Claremont would never have let her be such a non entity. The X-line and BP-line have failed Storm for the past 15 years( Although to be fair, Coates did well with the character and seemed to try to do her justice). This DOX era is the first time it feels like the X-line is trying to give a shit about the character(and even then, that only seemed so when XoS started). I am still shocked that it appears that she might be playing a big role in XoS.

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