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  1. #7531
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I spent Wednesday outside in nature, but I see there has been a lot of discussion based on the latest Marauders issue. I have not read the several pages in the threads yet, but here are some of my thoughts on the story:

    Overall I enjoyed the story. Vita crafted a powerful story, even if you could see Hickman's architecture, the emotions were more nuanced than he can render, so good for them. I think the tension was slightly contrived though, and making Storm the last to join the circle under a ticking clock would have made her look less hasty. I also would have preferred a more delicate touch against the Wakandans. As has often been the case in this DoX era, the brutal violence was gratuitous. Storm already developed a gentle atmospheric ko technique. Especially if time is of the essence, just drop everyone and take it. Why waste time getting in brutish fisticuffs?

    Attachment 101260

    That said, by restraining her power use early on, the confrontation with Shuri was made all the more impactful when Storm finally decided to let her have a taste of lightning, so I understand the narrative function of that choice.

    As for the main subject at hand; I think it's very funny that I pointed out from the preview that it was strange Ororo hadn't talked to T'Challa about the sword first before going to Wakanda... and that ends up being the final plot twist of the issue!



    But it is true! T'Challa has CONSTANTLY put Ororo after his other priorities. Whether that was ditching her to chase after Klaw when they were kids, risking her life for vibranium against Doom, running off to play Daredevil, annulling their marriage over politics, sleeping with her before the Incursion but not telling her about it, running off to play space explorer and coming back with a girlfriend and a space war for Storm to take down, he ALWAYS leaves her on hold. This woman fought Death itself for him, was willing to exchange her life for his. The fact that Ororo reached out to him for help and he didn't bother to respond for so long must have felt really horrible for her. She must have felt abandoned and dejected.

    I think she was just tired of waiting for him. She had an omniverse to save.

    I would have tweaked the story a bit here or there, but I liked it. Go ahead Vita!

    After reading this post I’m realizing that one of my main problems with this issue is that it wants to have its cake and eat it too. You can’t have Storm talking about how much she loves T’Challa, his family, and the people of Wakanda and then at the end be like “but you ain’t shit T’Challa.”

    If this whole issue had been framed as Storm having enough of putting her neck out for Wakanda and T’Challa and not receiving equal treatment, I still wouldn’t have been the BIGGEST fan but I would respect the clarity.

  2. #7532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    After reading this post I’m realizing that one of my main problems with this issue is that it wants to have its cake and eat it too. You can’t have Storm talking about how much she loves T’Challa, his family, and the people of Wakanda and then at the end be like “but you ain’t shit T’Challa.”

    If this whole issue had been framed as Storm having enough of putting her neck out for Wakanda and T’Challa and not receiving equal treatment, I still wouldn’t have been the BIGGEST fan but I would respect the clarity.


    agreed!!! honestly I dont think tchalla was at fault here. he returned earlier than a few days, in fact Ororo had not been there for even 24 hours. she went into that situation looking to steal from her family outside the xmen. I think what makes it all sloppy to me is that she had this urgency to get the sword but ultimately tchalla returns to see her off and she arrives as the rendezvous point only to end up waiting anyway. This as such highlights and amplifies many irredeemable qualities/traits displayed by her within the issue such as impatience, dishonesty, disloyalty, and impulsiveness.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  3. #7533
    Incredible Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    After reading this post Iím realizing that one of my main problems with this issue is that it wants to have its cake and eat it too. You canít have Storm talking about how much she loves TíChalla, his family, and the people of Wakanda and then at the end be like ďbut you ainít shit TíChalla.Ē

    If this whole issue had been framed as Storm having enough of putting her neck out for Wakanda and TíChalla and not receiving equal treatment, I still wouldnít have been the BIGGEST fan but I would respect the clarity.

    Exactly. I wrote in another post that Ayala wanted to have it both ways. IMO, you can't have a T'Challa who is willing to give Ororo a blade that, it's absence, based on what they wrote Shuri saying, would cause major issues in Wakanda, but also the same kind of man who would ignore repeated calls and appeals by the woman he loves, where she requests his assistance. Sorry, that just doesn't wash. Every time writers want to begin to slide away from the relationship, they pull out the same card with T'Challa--He places everything and everyone above Ororo.

    Come on. Give the character some credit some damn time when it comes to this woman. Let him be there for her. Let him be her rock. Him being her hero takes nothing away from her being a "strong woman." Sheesh. But no, we get the Strong black woman don't need a black man or any man trope.

  4. #7534
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    Exactly. I wrote in another post that Ayala wanted to have it both ways. IMO, you can't have a T'Challa who is willing to give Ororo a blade that, it's absence, based on what they wrote Shuri saying, would cause major issues in Wakanda, but also the same kind of man who would ignore repeated calls and appeals by the woman he loves, where she requests his assistance. Sorry, that just doesn't wash. Every time writers want to begin to slide away from the relationship, they pull out the same card with T'Challa--He places everything and everyone above Ororo.

    Come on. Give the character some credit some damn time when it comes to this woman. Let him be there for her. Let him be her rock. Him being her hero takes nothing away from her being a "strong woman." Sheesh. But no, we get the Strong black woman don't need a black man or any man trope.
    Well if we're being hypothetical and this is the end of Storm and T'Challa's romance as we know it, if Storm was back on the market who'd be the top choices for you guys? No point pining for a character Storm's home franchise won't let her be with. So who's the next best bet for Storm? Forge? Bishop? Death lol?

  5. #7535

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    She had no way of knowing when he would return. He did not communicate with her. I would have preferred her just barely getting the sword in time, so her urgency was more justified, but she was weighing the omniverse in the balance against stuffy traditions and empty ritual. She took the 'better safe than sorry' approach. If it really took T'Challa several days to return, that would have been too late.

    Skybreaker didn't even exist until Hickman created it, so I don't know why BP fans are so upset. Even if Storm 'took Krakoa's side'(which she didn't, she's essentially fighting for the whole world and all other realities), how many times has T'Challa thrown her under the bus for Wakanda? Shoe's on the other foot now that she is also governing her own nation.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  6. #7536
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    She had no way of knowing when he would return. He did not communicate with her. I would have preferred her just barely getting the sword in time, so her urgency was more justified, but she was weighing the omniverse in the balance against stuffy traditions and empty ritual. She took the 'better safe than sorry' approach. If it really took T'Challa several days to return, that would have been too late.

    Skybreaker didn't even exist until Hickman created it, so I don't know why BP fans are so upset. Even if Storm 'took Krakoa's side'(which she didn't, she's essentially fighting for the whole world and all other realities), how many times has T'Challa thrown her under the bus for Wakanda? Shoe's on the other foot now that she is also governing her own nation.
    BP fans aren't upset, they feel vindicated that the toxic romance Marvel has built up for their premier black character has been cut off so he can get his own love interest. The issue some have with the issue lies in the creation of what is effectively a plot device to fuel dysfunction in Wakanda in a later storyline. With this completely arbitrary sword now gone, we're now left wondering how will Wakanda react and to what extent will this impact the status quo of T'Challa going forward.

    Especially since he's basically in limbo as a character with a freeze on his solo. This issue frankly didn't go far enough because it kept open the door to more interaction between to Storm and T'Challa which for some reason people aren't realizing despite the fact its a problem for both characters. That and the X-office's usual poor understanding of BP lore, with there being a misspelling of the previous BPs name and a whole retconning of the founding king of Wakanda.

  7. #7537

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    I don't know why Hickman felt the need to change Wakanda's history. I assumed this was going to be connected to Bashenga, but Marvel already messed with their history with all that stupid 'million bc' crap anyways, so big whoop. That said, I doubt this will be a major storyline for Wakanda moving forward.

    Of course all of this could have been avoided if Hickman had Storm use the Sword of Bones from her own ancestor, and inventor of the tarot, Ashake. Major missed opportunity, boo to all the writers and editors for missing this obvious, on-theme wrinkle of continuity.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  8. #7538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    And...just because you are entitled to give a negative comment does not mean you have to be a rude, disrespectful SeeYouNextTuesday towards the creator.

    While I may personalise the work and feel deeply and strongly about it, the writers and the artists aren't creating for me and only me. And what I may hate others will love and vice versa.
    So attacking the creators for my disappointment (and let's be honest, that's exactly what it is...personal disappointment) is beyond ludicrous.
    I think people misunderstand why creatives use Twitter; because it's not to receive feedback. It's the the same reason the readers use Twitter. It's their free time. It's a hobby.

    Constructive criticism is negative feedback, and negative feedback can sour your mood. I'm sure Vita carves out some time to ponder critiques of their works, but their time on Twitter is not that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Well, I learned something today.

    That is really confusing grammar wise.

    What is the reasoning behind using a plural word? Might as well learn some more lol
    "They" actually has a history of being used as a singular pronoun, and is now recognized again as functioning as both a singular and plural pronoun.

    English lacks any other real solid, established options for gender-neutral pronouns.

  9. #7539
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I don't know why Hickman felt the need to change Wakanda's history. I assumed this was going to be connected to Bashenga, but Marvel already messed with their history with all that stupid 'million bc' crap anyways, so big whoop. That said, I doubt this will be a major storyline for Wakanda moving forward.

    Of course all of this could have been avoided if Hickman had Storm use the Sword of Bones from her own ancestor, and inventor of the tarot, Ashake. Major missed opportunity, boo to all the writers and editors for missing this obvious, on-theme wrinkle of continuity.
    The 1 million BC panther still has a off ramp. They haven't said it Wakanda yet. As far aw we know it's just the Panther tribe.

  10. #7540
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I don't know why Hickman felt the need to change Wakanda's history. I assumed this was going to be connected to Bashenga, but Marvel already messed with their history with all that stupid 'million bc' crap anyways, so big whoop. That said, I doubt this will be a major storyline for Wakanda moving forward.

    Of course all of this could have been avoided if Hickman had Storm use the Sword of Bones from her own ancestor, and inventor of the tarot, Ashake. Major missed opportunity, boo to all the writers and editors for missing this obvious, on-theme wrinkle of continuity.
    And BP fans have been bitching about Aaron's retcons as well so we're just being consistent lol. Though it's been established that this was a time before Wakanda existed and that the worship of Bast as a local deity pre-dates whoever the first king of Wakanda was so it's not as egregious as completely retconning Bashenga out of existence. So Vita and Hickman get more criticism in that regard.

    And while it's easy to say there is no impact that remains to be seen, because we're seeing tensions rise and a big Storm-centric story soon and it's hard to believe T'Challa and Wakanda won't play a big role. The X-Office doesn't know what to do with her if it doesn't somehow involve her ex which is both pathetic and funny but an issue for both characters to overcome. We don't know where this story goes but it's understandably got BP fans excited for a new beginning hopefully w/o Storm and anxious about a potential conflict once again centered around propping her up.

    But I agree this all would've been better if Marvel had fired Coates before the shutdown and forced the next BP to cap off his run with Storm and T'Challa breaking up. That way by the time XoS starts Storm can get a blade focused on building up her small mythos.
    Last edited by chief12d; 10-08-2020 at 11:28 AM.

  11. #7541
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I don't know why Hickman felt the need to change Wakanda's history. I assumed this was going to be connected to Bashenga, but Marvel already messed with their history with all that stupid 'million bc' crap anyways, so big whoop. That said, I doubt this will be a major storyline for Wakanda moving forward.

    Of course all of this could have been avoided if Hickman had Storm use the Sword of Bones from her own ancestor, and inventor of the tarot, Ashake. Major missed opportunity, boo to all the writers and editors for missing this obvious, on-theme wrinkle of continuity.
    See, this has been my thought. Why all these new swords for this crossover when, as they are well aware, there's a plethora of existing magical swords to use.

  12. #7542
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Well if we're being hypothetical and this is the end of Storm and T'Challa's romance as we know it, if Storm was back on the market who'd be the top choices for you guys? No point pining for a character Storm's home franchise won't let her be with. So who's the next best bet for Storm? Forge? Bishop? Death lol?
    rocket raccoon. make it happen jdw:


    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #7543
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    BP fans aren't upset, they feel vindicated that the toxic romance Marvel has built up for their premier black character has been cut off so he can get his own love interest. The issue some have with the issue lies in the creation of what is effectively a plot device to fuel dysfunction in Wakanda in a later storyline. With this completely arbitrary sword now gone, we're now left wondering how will Wakanda react and to what extent will this impact the status quo of T'Challa going forward.

    Especially since he's basically in limbo as a character with a freeze on his solo. This issue frankly didn't go far enough because it kept open the door to more interaction between to Storm and T'Challa which for some reason people aren't realizing despite the fact its a problem for both characters. That and the X-office's usual poor understanding of BP lore, with there being a misspelling of the previous BPs name and a whole retconning of the founding king of Wakanda.
    Yup, I know I'm not upset. I'm happy and I hope this is the end of it.

    BP fans saw this coming and didn't want Coates to restart this to begin with.

  14. #7544
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I think people misunderstand why creatives use Twitter; because it's not to receive feedback. It's the the same reason the readers use Twitter. It's their free time. It's a hobby.

    Constructive criticism is negative feedback, and negative feedback can sour your mood. I'm sure Vita carves out some time to ponder critiques of their works, but their time on Twitter is not that time.
    Exactatiously
    More often than not it's just to promote their work/projects and have a few laughs...good, light, fun stuff. Not to be inundated with a barrage of unsolicited feedback and "advice".
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  15. #7545
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    Exactly. I wrote in another post that Ayala wanted to have it both ways. IMO, you can't have a T'Challa who is willing to give Ororo a blade that, it's absence, based on what they wrote Shuri saying, would cause major issues in Wakanda, but also the same kind of man who would ignore repeated calls and appeals by the woman he loves, where she requests his assistance. Sorry, that just doesn't wash. Every time writers want to begin to slide away from the relationship, they pull out the same card with T'Challa--He places everything and everyone above Ororo.

    Come on. Give the character some credit some damn time when it comes to this woman. Let him be there for her. Let him be her rock. Him being her hero takes nothing away from her being a "strong woman." Sheesh. But no, we get the Strong black woman don't need a black man or any man trope.
    GP, they just proved that the sword they said that was so important to Wakanda wasn't that important. He gave the sword like okay. But it still wasn't enough because they had to add in all of the unnecessary Real Housewives drama.

    I've gone on record at least hundreds of times saying how I don't like Coates BP. But comparing how Coates wrote the relationship compared to what happened in Marauders, it's like they were back to their AvX days.


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