Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2020

[butterflykyss]

She was roleplaying. Its hard to take that seriously when she had her mind and perception altered and she was put in a position to act the part that was intended of her. She called for Mastermind to kill Scott and we know she didnt have some hidden desire to be married to Mastermind and for Scott to die



You are reading way too much into that. Jean, Wolverine, Emma and Scott had nothing to do with that issue and we dont know that Hickman had anything to do with the cover. Writers typically dont dictate that and this is likely 99% a Larraz thing. Quite frankly, I dont know why those 4 were even on there. It seemed random and not bc they were supposed to represent the 4 core X-men

in the words of wyngarde:





also I stand corrected jean takes accountability for Jean's action as dark phoenix:




even more reason why jean needs to acknowledge her desires she had at that point towards ororo.

[butterflykyss]

I don't trust Hickman very much with her. He's talked about his favorites in the past and they never feature Ororo (they do feature a very racist fake blonde though) and that's especially evident from how much he's sidelined her. It used to kill me when all these House of X promos were coming out and despite being the X-Men's second most famous leader (really should be the first), she was ignored entirely. Even though Xavier, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, and even the fake blonde would be represented.



It's an utter insult when they chose to include the fake blonde over Storm in this cover as one of the four core X-Men. Then to add insult to injury, Xavier, Magneto, and Moira are there so basically all the X-Men's leadership EXCEPT for Storm. Why has she been sidelined? Does Hickman even have an answer?

I dont necessarily need her to be his fave just write her respectful to her mythos. we havent seen much storm in Hickman's era but that is supposedly going to change after giant size. so we will see.

[Havok83]

in the words of wyngarde:





also I stand corrected jean takes accountability for Jean's action as dark phoenix:




even more reason why jean needs to acknowledge her desires she had at that point towards ororo.

So do you think it was her desire to be romantically linked to Wyngarde and want Scott dead?

[butterflykyss]

So do you think it was her desire to be romantically linked to Wyngarde and want Scott dead?

It's exactly as Wyngarde said, she was confined to the moral cage for her entire life up to that point and wyngarde stripped her from it. just as xavier knew it was wrong to lost for a teenage jean he never acted upon it or told her locking it away deep within his mind. I think the same can be said with her desires to want to fall for a villain or even kill, scott included.

nevertheless, I'm just quoting the facts from canon. jean could simply apologize and recognize as she did in that second panel that the actions she exhibited were her own. is that too hard to do for a woman she calls her best friend?

[whitecrown]

nevertheless, I'm just quoting the facts from canon. jean could simply apologize and recognize as she did in that second panel that the actions she exhibited were her own. is that too hard to do for a woman she calls her best friend?

I don't think this is uncalled for at all. We can't call ourselves real allies if we allow racism like this to go unspoken for and I'll also admit that the very time I first read this issue, this moment made me very uncomfortable. More than anything else, this felt very raw and very real and very much like a betrayal to both Storm and Jean's character. As a Jean fan, I did not appreciate this coming from her and what she did to Storm. So I can only imagine how black people reading this around the world would feel, especially ADOS, so Storm deserves retribution for this moment, regardless of whether Jean was in her right mind or not.

[butterflykyss]

I don't think this is uncalled for at all. We can't call ourselves real allies if we allow racism like this to go unspoken for and I'll also admit that the very time I first read this issue, this moment made me very uncomfortable. More than anything else, this felt very raw and very real and very much like a betrayal to both Storm and Jean's character. As a Jean fan, I did not appreciate this coming from her and what she did to Storm. So I can only imagine how black people reading this around the world would feel, especially ADOS, so Storm deserves retribution for this moment, regardless of whether Jean was in her right mind or not.

beloved you are awesome. you're the first Jean fan that I've come across to not make an excuse for what happened! beautifully said!

[whitecrown]

beloved you are awesome. you're the first Jean fan that I've come across to not make an excuse for what happened! beautifully said!

That's so sweet of you to say. To be honest, the fact that I'm the first Jean fan you've come across to feel this way is incredibly disconcerting to me. Jean's fandom needs to be better than this especially since I've always considered the Jean and Storm fandoms to be allied with each other.

[MechaJeanix]

Actually we have discussed the Jean parts in Dark Phoenix as well as the Frenzy mind control. Both myself and PhoenixStudies have talked about it on this forum (admittedly PhoenixStudies doesn't post anymore and it has been some time). I discussed the problematic Frenzy stuff recently in the Jean thread.

I tend to put blame on the straight white male writers (Claremont and Lodbell) for their bad choices. Claremont gets credit for a diverse cast, using the women generally well, and focusing a lot of his run on Storm. But he also had problematic content (the race swaps, etc). He also had Kitty Pryde use the N-word not once but twice! I still can't believe that happened. He also had that panel where Storm is being checked out by doctors and they imply she's not Black (they say she has European features).

In the X-universe Storm and Jean are close friends but for some reason the fandoms like to fight and it usually comes from discussions about who is more powerful (I'd argue that Storm is but I'd mainly argue it is comparing apples and oranges to compare a psychic character with one who controls the weather). I hate the reductive x-woman vs. x-woman toxicity in the fandom. Why can't we just stop it?

The characters support each other but I do agree the moment in the Dark Phoenix was bad and if written today it would never happen. It was a poor choice from Claremont to show how corrupted Jean was at the time. Leah Williams wrote about the problematic issue on her tumblr a while back, and she would probably like to explore it. But let me remind everyone that she had to apologize on twitter once because she wrote a comic book where an Asian woman became a rat and it never entered her mind at the time that she was playing with negative harmful stereotypes that would hurt/upset fans. The book in question was during her series in Age of X-man.

[LordAllMIghty]

Actually we have discussed the Jean parts in Dark Phoenix as well as the Frenzy mind control. Both myself and PhoenixStudies have talked about it on this forum (admittedly PhoenixStudies doesn't post anymore and it has been some time). I discussed the problematic Frenzy stuff recently in the Jean thread.

I tend to put blame on the straight white male writers (Claremont and Lodbell) for their bad choices. Claremont gets credit for a diverse cast, using the women generally well, and focusing a lot of his run on Storm. But he also had problematic content (the race swaps, etc). He also had Kitty Pryde use the N-word not once but twice! I still can't believe that happened. He also had that panel where Storm is being checked out by doctors and they imply she's not Black (they say she has European features).

In the X-universe Storm and Jean are close friends but for some reason the fandoms like to fight and it usually comes from discussions about who is more powerful (I'd argue that Storm is but I'd mainly argue it is comparing apples and oranges to compare a psychic character with one who controls the weather). I hate the reductive x-woman vs. x-woman toxicity in the fandom. Why can't we just stop it?

The characters support each other but I do agree the moment in the Dark Phoenix was bad and if written today it would never happen. It was a poor choice from Claremont to show how corrupted Jean was at the time. Leah Williams wrote about the problematic issue on her tumblr a while back, and she would probably like to explore it. But let me remind everyone that she had to apologize on twitter once because she wrote a comic book where an Asian woman became a rat and it never entered her mind at the time that she was playing with negative harmful stereotypes that would hurt/upset fans. The book in question was during her series in Age of X-man.

Some of us here love Jean and think she is a amazing character. I think the issue comes up when X-Fans try to convince others why Storm or Jean should be considered the QUEEN of the X-Men.

I give it to Storm because she been on the team longer (comic book issues) and she done more for Xavier's dream. As for Jean, because she was the first X-Woman, I can see how some might say she the QUEEN of the X-Men.

[MechaJeanix]

Some of us here love Jean and think she is a amazing character. I think the issue comes up when X-Fans try to convince others why Storm or Jean should be considered the QUEEN of the X-Men.

I give it to Storm because she been on the team longer (comic book issues) and she done more for Xavier's dream. As for Jean, because she was the first X-Woman, I can see how some might say she the QUEEN of the X-Men.

In my view, Storm is easily the heart and soul of the X-men. Jean and Nightcrawler have been described as such in the books over the last few years or so, but I recently re-read almost the entire Claremont Uncanny run and I feel like the X-men is Storm's story as much as or more than Scott Summers. That might be controversial to some, but Storm is a main-stay and she is a character that should always be in a starring role imo.She should remain a leader.
I love it when Jean and Storm are on the same team. They are great characters and both are strong, confident, and capable (though both can be treated poorly by writers). I wish the fan groups wouldn't divide about who is more powerful (both are) who is more important (both are though Storm is the "main" X-woman), etc. Fans talk about the bias Jean fans have for Emma and vice versa but some of the things I read with Storm vs Jean is just as bad or worse.

[Kingdom X]

Actually we have discussed the Jean parts in Dark Phoenix as well as the Frenzy mind control. Both myself and PhoenixStudies have talked about it on this forum (admittedly PhoenixStudies doesn't post anymore and it has been some time). I discussed the problematic Frenzy stuff recently in the Jean thread.

I tend to put blame on the straight white male writers (Claremont and Lodbell) for their bad choices. Claremont gets credit for a diverse cast, using the women generally well, and focusing a lot of his run on Storm. But he also had problematic content (the race swaps, etc). He also had Kitty Pryde use the N-word not once but twice! I still can't believe that happened. He also had that panel where Storm is being checked out by doctors and they imply she's not Black (they say she has European features).

In the X-universe Storm and Jean are close friends but for some reason the fandoms like to fight and it usually comes from discussions about who is more powerful (I'd argue that Storm is but I'd mainly argue it is comparing apples and oranges to compare a psychic character with one who controls the weather). I hate the reductive x-woman vs. x-woman toxicity in the fandom. Why can't we just stop it?

The characters support each other but I do agree the moment in the Dark Phoenix was bad and if written today it would never happen. It was a poor choice from Claremont to show how corrupted Jean was at the time. Leah Williams wrote about the problematic issue on her tumblr a while back, and she would probably like to explore it. But let me remind everyone that she had to apologize on twitter once because she wrote a comic book where an Asian woman became a rat and it never entered her mind at the time that she was playing with negative harmful stereotypes that would hurt/upset fans. The book in question was during her series in Age of X-man.

Maybe it’s just me but I much prefer a writer that is willing to delve into difficult topics and if they f*ck up, apologize for it.

[Devaishwarya]

It's never been a competition. In story...Jean and Storm and Emma all know their importance to the X-Men as a whole. There is no Queen of the X-Men....or King for that matter...and if you're pushing for that decision among the readership then you've missed the moral of the story entirely.

[whitecrown]

Umm everyone is wrong here. Storm and Jean are both queens of the X-Men and always have been. Jean has been referred to as the heart and soul of the team numerous times, including by Storm but I think a more accurate representation would be to say that Jean is the heart and Storm is the soul. Wolverine would be the body or the spirit.

[Micabe]

It's never been a competition. In story...Jean and Storm and Emma all know their importance to the X-Men as a whole. There is no Queen of the X-Men....or King for that matter...and if you're pushing for that decision among the readership then you've missed the moral of the story entirely.

Umm everyone is wrong here. Storm and Jean are both queens of the X-Men and always have been. Jean has been referred to as the heart and soul of the team numerous times, including by Storm but I think a more accurate representation would be to say that Jean is the heart and Storm is the soul. Wolverine would be the body or the spirit.

There may be no King or Queen of the X-Men but it has been canonically established that Jean is the heart and soul of the team.

[Dipter]

There may be no King or Queen of the X-Men but it has been established that Jean is it the heart and soul of the team.

Who ever said that there can’t be multiple hearts and souls of the team? I love Jean, but it’s not like the x-men lost all hope during the periods of time where she was deceased. The are other mutants who are just as devoted to the dream as she is.