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  1. #4111
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franckd View Post
    It would be interesting to have Chris Claremont opinion about that. Did he really intended to write Jean as a closeted racist, or if it was all Mastermind.
    As I said, saying that Ororo and Jean are fakes friends because of the DPS is... reductive. A fake friend wouldn't sacrifice his/her life for the other.
    There's really no need to explain it. Because...
    1: It's decades ago. Storm, Jean have clearly moved way past that fictional moment.
    2: It does aptly show Mastermind's reprehensible nature and power and influence. He corrupted Jean's mind and memories to the point where her truest friends were less than nothing to her. As a Black woman living in the era, "less than" meant slave.
    3: It's a testimonial to the strength of their friendship...that Storm does not hold that moment against her.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 06-24-2020 at 05:59 AM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  2. #4112
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Folks, leave other forum members or disparaging talk about other fans out of your posts. Stay focused on the characters and comics.
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  3. #4113
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    There's really no need to explain it. Because...
    1: It's decades ago. Storm, Jean have clearly moved way past that fictional moment, unfortunately the same cannot be said of some readers.
    2: It does aptly show Mastermind's reprehensible nature and power and influence. He corrupted Jean's mind and memories to the point where her truest friends were less than nothing to her. As a Blac woman living in the era, "less than" meant slave.
    Especially has it's canon that Ororo feels Jean like her sister. As one of her best friends if not best friend. It was something I really loved during the CC era : two strong women, being so close, no rivalry. I actually was a big fan of both characters. Then, with some others writers taking other, It was not quite the same. That's why it was such a nice touch, when Jonathan Hickman acknowledged this inferno moment...




  4. #4114
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Exactatiously.

    Bad shyt happens to the X-Men...all the time...that causes them to turn on each other. DP, Archangel, Onslaught, Wolverine stabbed Rachel through her heart...just to name a few.
    Yet still, they are a family and continue to be so to one another. In the grand scheme of X-Lore and especially now with Krakoa, that panel is not at all important.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  5. #4115
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Exactatiously.

    Bad shyt happens to the X-Men...all the time...that causes them to turn on each other. DP, Archangel, Onslaught, Wolverine stabbed Rachel through her heart...just to name a few.
    Yet still, they are a family and continue to be so to one another. In the grand scheme of X-Lore and especially now with Krakoa, that panel is not at all important.
    Exactly. And what matters at the end of the day, is what Ororo feels. And so far, she never ever brought up that she might or might no see Jean as a closeted racist : the subject never was brought and Ororo never hated Jean, never hold a grudge against her. And never blamed her for her Black Queen or Dark Phoenix days.

  6. #4116
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otipep_90 View Post
    As an X-Men fan and a Jean Grey fan, it has always been important to me to see such as strong friendship between Storm and Jean. This is something that at the time was ground breaking and broke down certain perceptions that young readers may have had in 1970s USA. Jean also was roommates with Misty Night during that same time period and was a progressive young white woman.

    I agree that it has been a missed opportunity by writers and editors alike to not have Jean and Storm discussed the horrific Mind Rape and physical Rape Jean suffered at the hands of Mastermind, being that they are like sisters, but then again Jean had committed suicide and remained dead for years in the aftermath of the Dark Phoenix Saga. I like to imagine that Storm would have forgiven Jean, considering Jean was systematically coerced and seduced by Mastermind for over a year in Marvel time before she finally succumbed to his manipulations, and despite this they have rein friends over the years through all of JeanÂ’s death. It is unfortunate that Jean has been dead so often and so long that certain plot points have been overlooked by editorial.

    Even with the retcons that infers the Jean that was Phoenix was not the really Jean (who was at the bottom of Jamaica Bay) I donÂ’t see why especially at this time with BLM that any fan would label Jean as a racist when she has been clearly always an ally. These are not real people, they are fictional characters, but petty and divisive acts within fandom by real people only divide us more.

    There is a enough racism and sexism in comics, even if not overtly intended, that we should be beyond this. Sorry to crash your Thread.

    I'm sure Ororo would have forgiven Jean for harboring such ideas but to say she had a black roommate doesnt dissolve her from those thoughts about Ororo, just as saving the lives of people many times over didnt dissolve her of destroying the D'bari home planet.


    I dont ever expect it to be addressed as these topics can be a bit too heavy for writers to address in today's world but it would be nice to see such heavy topics addressed. I mean we did see Xavier's attraction for a teenage Jean addressed during the onslaught saga;



    As Ororo's friend, I think just as she has addressed other wrongs the Phoenix did it would make sense for her to address this very personal and direct hatred she had towards her.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  7. #4117
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    At any rate some beautiful Storm art:

    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  8. #4118
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I'm sure Ororo would have forgiven Jean for harboring such ideas but to say she had a black roommate doesnt dissolve her from those thoughts about Ororo, just as saving the lives of people many times over didnt dissolve her of destroying the D'bari home planet.


    I dont ever expect it to be addressed as these topics can be a bit too heavy for writers to address in today's world but it would be nice to see such heavy topics addressed. I mean we did see Xavier's attraction for a teenage Jean addressed during the onslaught saga;

    As Ororo's friend, I think just as she has addressed other wrongs the Phoenix did it would make sense for her to address this very personal and direct hatred she had towards her.
    I also think it's important to note that Storm was not (and rarely has been) written by black writers. Few writers would be able to grasp the unique trauma that comes from racist incidents, especially those that come from loved ones. Again, I'm not in the "Jean is an evil racist boat," but I'm more interested in how Storm internalized those events as a member of multiple oppressed groups.

  9. #4119
    Astonishing Member BlkGldBlu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    At any rate some beautiful Storm art:


    Utterly gorgeous. New wall art. I love the fabric.
    She really look like an African diety.
    And that SKIN!!! Uugghhhh......drool

  10. #4120
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    At any rate some beautiful Storm art:

    Storm in full goddess mode.
    Some of us wait, some of us act.

  11. #4121
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I also think it's important to note that Storm was not (and rarely has been) written by black writers. Few writers would be able to grasp the unique trauma that comes from racist incidents, especially those that come from loved ones. Again, I'm not in the "Jean is an evil racist boat," but I'm more interested in how Storm internalized those events as a member of multiple oppressed groups.
    Yes absolutely! As much I love Claremont and what he did for Ororo there were some problematic writings as it related to her race. This is one of the reasons why its important for diversity in terms of the creative process. We can see evidence of this with Coates. He has written, although not extensively, on the intersectionality of race and being a mutant:






    I crave for more stories like this. it's hard to imagine ororo would only fight for mutant related issues while completely being silent on those issues that impact black persons. Coates has done a great job changing this narrative but I think much more is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlkGldBlu View Post
    Utterly gorgeous. New wall art. I love the fabric.
    She really look like an African diety.
    And that SKIN!!! Uugghhhh......drool
    Its sooooo gorgeous!!! I would love for her to wear something like this in the comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    Storm in full goddess mode.
    Absolutely!!!! Hadari Yao in the house!!!
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  12. #4122
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Yes absolutely! As much I love Claremont and what he did for Ororo there were some problematic writings as it related to her race. This is one of the reasons why its important for diversity in terms of the creative process. We can see evidence of this with Coates. He has written, although not extensively, on the intersectionality of race and being a mutant:

    I crave for more stories like this. it's hard to imagine ororo would only fight for mutant related issues while completely being silent on those issues that impact black persons. Coates has done a great job changing this narrative but I think much more is needed.

    Its sooooo gorgeous!!! I would love for her to wear something like this in the comics!

    Absolutely!!!! Hadari Yao in the house!!!
    I love these stories too. Very relatable to a lot of the readership but I also think should be educational to other parts who ma never truly grasp the depth the impact those moments have the lives of people of color. I want a good balance of stories like this for Storm where she can have relevant real world issue discussions/take action, in addition to stories where she and mutants get back to making Krakoa the second coming of Wakanda if you will, and Marvel finding a nitch role of significance for her.

  13. #4123
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    I love these stories too. Very relatable to a lot of the readership but I also think should be educational to other parts who ma never truly grasp the depth the impact those moments have the lives of people of color. I want a good balance of stories like this for Storm where she can have relevant real world issue discussions/take action, in addition to stories where she and mutants get back to making Krakoa the second coming of Wakanda if you will, and Marvel finding a nitch role of significance for her.
    Absolutely! That is what I truly think has been lacking which is balance. We have so many stories of her fighting for mutant rights and aspects of her life impacted by being a mutant but she's not solely a mutant. It doesnt have solely revolve around the injustices black people experienced from the past but seeing a bridge between these worlds would certainly be refreshing imo.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  14. #4124
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    A very good read. I can get behind her being Storm:

    https://winteriscoming.net/2020/06/2...ki-solo-movie/

    Yetide Badaki knows her Storm.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  15. #4125
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    The statues that Storm and her friends faced in that Into the Storm mini bear an eerie resemblance to Apocalypse’s first horsemen that they’ve been hyping up. I can’t find the image now, but I remember that one of them had a headpiece almost exactly like the one we’ve seen as the head of a horseman. And another had a symbol for balance, which relates to the dog-headed Horseman that looks like Anubis (who weighed the souls of dead Egyptians in the afterlife).

    Another had a hood over his head and a heavily pronounced chin, which seems similar to another horseman. I don’t think there’s anyone quite like the fire-headed dude but I feel like as a whole the two groups have basic design similarities. I doubt they’re the original horsemen, maybe the artists just wanted to use those designs?

    That whole mini was saturated with Apocalypse-related material that feels weirdly prophetic in light of his new influence on Krakoa. And the way Storm was fit into that mythology is interesting considering she’s supposed to play a role in X of Swords. It’d be interesting to see if Hickman plays into any of that. Storm’s connection to Egypt whether it be by ancestry or life experiences gives her a lot of opportunities to tie into the new ground he’s been breaking with the history of mutants/mutant magic.

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