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  1. #6901
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Genuine question here, but what exactly did he do? The pictures just show her throwing lightning bolts at people, which seems to have become the defacto action for writers to show her doing, to the point were it feels to me like that's all she is used for most of the time, besides making big speeches and displaying a larger than life ego/persona.

    I haven't followed the character much in the last decade, so i'm not aware of what has heavily changed with the character since the 2010s.
    Coates canonized her as being a literal goddess. In Black Panther, Ororo was able to use the faith of the Wakandans to dispel unnatural storms generated by Adversary, as well as defeat him in a later issue. It would fully realize what Claremont hinted at years ago in his X-treme Xmen run.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  2. #6902
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Coates canonized her as being a literal goddess. In Black Panther, Ororo was able to use the faith of the Wakandans to dispel unnatural storms generated by Adversary, as well as defeat him in a later issue. It would fully realize what Claremont hinted at years ago in his X-treme Xmen run.
    Also keep in mind Adversary was summoning these storms while in a difference plane of existence. Which means his range with weather alone is far beyond planetary perhaps even it's even universal.

  3. #6903
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLY360 View Post
    Also keep in mind Adversary was summoning these storms while in a difference plane of existence. Which means his range with weather alone is far beyond planetary perhaps even it's even universal.
    yes you are absolutely correct!!! i love all the insight you bring to these showings!!!
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  4. #6904
    Amazing Member BadBadBeans's Avatar
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    Okay, riddle me this T’Challa lovers: has he ever apologized to Ororo for being a complete d$ck to her re: the way he ended their marriage? Apologies for not remembering the issue, but I distinctly remember the scene where T’Challa flat out coldly tells her that he’s had their marriage annulled. He does it right out in the middle of everything. I’ll try to find it. So has he apologized for being a a$$ about her association with the X-Men? That was the big reason he give for the annulment (as I recall): that her time was too split between Wakanda and the X-Men. What drove me absolutely bonkers was after the scene where she becomes/realizes she is a goddess, and she’s alone with T’Challa, she tells him that he’s the most controlling man she’s ever met, like it’s a good thing! What is that about? So tell me T’Challa fans: has hen changed? What’s different about their relationship now?

  5. #6905
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBadBeans View Post
    Okay, riddle me this T’Challa lovers: has he ever apologized to Ororo for being a complete d$ck to her re: the way he ended their marriage? Apologies for not remembering the issue, but I distinctly remember the scene where T’Challa flat out coldly tells her that he’s had their marriage annulled. He does it right out in the middle of everything. I’ll try to find it. So has he apologized for being a a$$ about her association with the X-Men? That was the big reason he give for the annulment (as I recall): that her time was too split between Wakanda and the X-Men. What drove me absolutely bonkers was after the scene where she becomes/realizes she is a goddess, and she’s alone with T’Challa, she tells him that he’s the most controlling man she’s ever met, like it’s a good thing! What is that about? So tell me T’Challa fans: has hen changed? What’s different about their relationship now?
    he did apologize and acknowledged he was wrong when he annulled the marriage:


    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  6. #6906
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    Those of us on the forum know what Coates has done with Storm, even those who don't care for his writing and/or depiction of BP. I think there is a general agreement that he has handled her well, including elevating her to godhood when the X-writers were still late to the table to grant her Omega mutant status. Coates bypassed that and went straight for a godhood that wasn't based on something external, like Thor's hammer, but Ororo's ancestry. That is a powerful distinction because he firmly made her godhood internal, genetic. The "unlocking," if you will, of her godhead then becomes more about her acceptance of who and what she is. Meaning, Coates granted the character agency over her godhood. I love that.

    As far as Vita, I've never read them, so I have no expectations about the writer. I do think, no matter how much they love the character of Storm, they will follow whatever mandate has come down about the character, and that includes her relationship with T'Challa.
    Yes even those BP fans who hate her inclusion in the wakandan mythos acknowledge he wrote her well. Also, yes yes yes to her genetic link to her gift of godhead. As much as some parts of the fandom wanting to make her being a mutant the most important thing about her Coates revealed there are deeper elements that go beyond her x-gene. I also love your point about her agency over her abilities that were innately hers. It wasn't something she needed the asgardian gods to grant, it wasn't something that had to possess her to obtain this ability. No - it was hers and her chose to embrace it or not. So beautiful!!!

    Well i know she wrote shuri issues 6 and 7 I believe so im hoping coming from that world she would have influence on the story that is being told.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  7. #6907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Genuine question here, but what exactly did he do? The pictures just show her throwing lightning bolts at people, which seems to have become the defacto action for writers to show her doing, to the point were it feels to me like that's all she is used for most of the time, besides making big speeches and displaying a larger than life ego/persona.

    I haven't followed the character much in the last decade, so i'm not aware of what has heavily changed with the character since the 2010s.
    She removed Adversaryís curse on Wakanda and got rid of its supernatural storms. In that picture she channels the faith of Wakanda and vaniquishes a major demon.

  8. #6908
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBadBeans View Post
    Okay, riddle me this TíChalla lovers: has he ever apologized to Ororo for being a complete d$ck to her re: the way he ended their marriage? Apologies for not remembering the issue, but I distinctly remember the scene where TíChalla flat out coldly tells her that heís had their marriage annulled. He does it right out in the middle of everything. Iíll try to find it. So has he apologized for being a a$$ about her association with the X-Men? That was the big reason he give for the annulment (as I recall): that her time was too split between Wakanda and the X-Men. What drove me absolutely bonkers was after the scene where she becomes/realizes she is a goddess, and sheís alone with TíChalla, she tells him that heís the most controlling man sheís ever met, like itís a good thing! What is that about? So tell me TíChalla fans: has hen changed? Whatís different about their relationship now?
    She meant it in an endearing way. TíChalla plays his cards close to his chest and itís a quality that she finds attractive and valuable when in the field or dealing with an enemy behind the scenes. Doesnít mean he canít go overboard, but in moderation TíChallaís poker face is something I could see a person in touch with their emotions (like Ororo) liking. He wanted her to realize her own divinity, her getting told all the answers from the get go wouldíve been less fulfilling for Storm. Itís basic storytelling.

    TíChalla apologized for divorcing Ororo and made it clear their divorce was a failing on his part to accept all of her, as the scans butterflykyss show. He even said at one point that he was lonely and wanted to ďcage herĒ in his kingly lifestyle but that he had to accept she was a free being. Storm for her part has recognized that the throne she once bore and the obligations she once grew unsteady with were worth it.

    That Wakanda was something special to a man she loved and was thus something she had to accept and embrace. She reconciled within herself that Wakandans had the potential to change and love and accept her in totality (even when they refused to do so for their king), allowing her to embrace her own heritage and grew as a person. She is a hero and realizes she must be that for ALL people.

    So the relationship has evolved into one more sustainable even if itís unlikely to last. Theyíve accepted each other as they are, not trying to force labels on one another to meet the expectations others have set for them or theyíve set for themselves. I dislike some of the stuff that had to happen to get to that point but I do think Coates ďfixedĒ the relationship and made it more fleshed out. If they had to stay together, I wouldíve liked to see more actual dating stuff like dinners and stuff but itís action comics and TíChalla was in space so there wasnít time for that.
    Last edited by chief12d; 09-26-2020 at 12:40 AM.

  9. #6909
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    She removed Adversary’s curse on Wakanda and got rid of its supernatural storms. In that picture she channels the faith of Wakanda and vaniquishes a major demon.
    Yes to all of this.. I also wanted to add that additional development Coates gave Ororo was deeper ties to her father's heritage as well as black people in general. He has been a godsend for the character.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  10. #6910
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    She meant it in an endearing way. T’Challa plays his cards close to his chest and it’s a quality that she finds attractive and valuable when in the field or dealing with an enemy behind the scenes. Doesn’t mean he can’t go overboard, but in moderation T’Challa’s poker face is something I could see a person in touch with their emotions (like Ororo) liking. He wanted her to realize her own divinity, her getting told all the answers from the get go would’ve been less fulfilling for Storm. It’s basic storytelling.

    T’Challa apologized for divorcing Ororo and made it clear their divorce was a failing on his part to accept all of her, as the scans butterflykyss show. He even said at one point that he was lonely and wanted to “cage her” in his kingly lifestyle but that he had to accept she was a free being. Storm for her part has recognized that the throne she once bore and the obligations she once grew unsteady with were worth it.

    That Wakanda was something special to a man she loved and was thus something she had to accept and embrace. She reconciled within herself that Wakandans had the potential to change and love and accept her in totality (even when they refused to do so for their king), allowing her to embrace her own heritage and grew as a person. She is a hero and realizes she must be that for ALL people.

    So the relationship has evolved into one more sustainable even if it’s unlikely to last. They’ve accepted each other as they are, not trying to force labels on one another to meet the expectations others have set for them or they’ve set for themselves. I dislike some of the stuff that had to happen to get to that point but I do think Coates “fixed” the relationship and made it more fleshed out. If they had to stay together, I would’ve liked to see more actual dating stuff like dinners and stuff but it’s action comics and T’Challa was in space so there wasn’t time for that.
    This was beautifully said and an excellent summation of where they currently stand and how they were able to finally get to a place where they both compliment each other in being their best person. She's never had a man who lives her the way that tchalla does:

    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #6911
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Coates canonized her as being a literal goddess. In Black Panther, Ororo was able to use the faith of the Wakandans to dispel unnatural storms generated by Adversary, as well as defeat him in a later issue. It would fully realize what Claremont hinted at years ago in his X-treme Xmen run.
    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    She removed Adversary’s curse on Wakanda and got rid of its supernatural storms. In that picture she channels the faith of Wakanda and vaniquishes a major demon.
    Thanks for the info.

    I wonder if it could have been presented better than just another "Storm summons a lightning bolt from the sky" scene, that for casual onlookers like me, requires previous context to understand how it's different from the other such scenes over the years.

    So she got yet another power up on top of the allready big pile of power and qualities, which writers have added to her over the years (expert hand to hand fighter, skilled thief, can controll weather on earth, can controll weather in space, can controll weather in mystical dimensions, powerfull bloodline dating back to the first grand civilizations and now godhood and likely more i forgot at the moment)?
    I often get the impression said pile is the reason so few writers seem to know what to do with her anymore. That she has possibly become too large to write compellingly or interesting, so they don't even try anymore and just place her in backrounds as living tesla sphere.
    A great power fantasy admittedly, but perhaps unsuited for interesting plots that don't require a overpowered character to throw lightning at increasingly more powerfull other beings.

    The more powerfull a character is the more they need to be defined by their personal issues and failings, but these seem to have written out of Storm over the years in an inverse to how her powers grew.

    But that's just my outsider perspective. Wouldn't mind being wrong on it.

  12. #6912
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    One question that seems to be building up with kurt (and maybe jean too once the bird comes around) and his questions of how can religion and faith will exist on krakoa, now we have a dark mirror to krakoa and their goddess "Anihilation", who we can predict is a corrupted Genesis, further conecting the two women and the two cultures.

    Now Ororo is a goddess to humans, but what constitutes a god in a civilization of immortal beings with god like powers? I think it will be an interesting question to answer.

    To me, it will come down to her value as a person and a spiritual leader, because it's not just her power that makes her special in a island of super powered beings, but her Spirit and Character, wich can make the mutants of krakoa have faith in her when she speak for their nascent culture, a difrent type of faith than the people of wakanda have in her but valuable none the less.

  13. #6913
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBadBeans View Post
    Okay, riddle me this T’Challa lovers: has he ever apologized to Ororo for being a complete d$ck to her re: the way he ended their marriage? Apologies for not remembering the issue, but I distinctly remember the scene where T’Challa flat out coldly tells her that he’s had their marriage annulled. He does it right out in the middle of everything. I’ll try to find it. So has he apologized for being a a$$ about her association with the X-Men? That was the big reason he give for the annulment (as I recall): that her time was too split between Wakanda and the X-Men. What drove me absolutely bonkers was after the scene where she becomes/realizes she is a goddess, and she’s alone with T’Challa, she tells him that he’s the most controlling man she’s ever met, like it’s a good thing! What is that about? So tell me T’Challa fans: has hen changed? What’s different about their relationship now?
    Why should he apologize for giving her dick?

  14. #6914
    Amazing Member BadBadBeans's Avatar
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    Many thanks for the effort, T’Challa folks. I still don’t ship them, but at least your boy came through making things right, and I give him much credit for that. You guys came through for your boy.

  15. #6915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    One question that seems to be building up with kurt (and maybe jean too once the bird comes around) and his questions of how can religion and faith will exist on krakoa, now we have a dark mirror to krakoa and their goddess "Anihilation", who we can predict is a corrupted Genesis, further conecting the two women and the two cultures.

    Now Ororo is a goddess to humans, but what constitutes a god in a civilization of immortal beings with god like powers? I think it will be an interesting question to answer.
    Keep in mind that most mutants are not far removed from regular humans in terms of their personal power.
    As readers we can roughly say that for every Magneto or Storm, there are more than ten mutants with usefull yet far less impressive powers and and a hundred of mutants with powers that barely make them more powerfull than baseline humans (or even worse than not having powers in some cases).
    Most backround filler mutants have powers like bug eyes, unnatural skin color, purely cosmetic animal features, very minor abilities to controll something, shortend or longer than usual body parts and so on.

    When Magneto refers to mutant as "new gods" he is intentionaly or without thinking about it, purely refering to mutants like himself, the 1% of mutantkind, the lottery winners, while the vast majority of mutants tend to be nothing more than unusual humans.
    It's the reason why the concept of a mutant society feels so on the edge to drop into a caste system at any moment, where the value of a person is defined by the usefullness of their super natural powers, or falling into the trappings of mass genetic modification to bring everyone in line to a certain "usefull" power level (something allready refered to in X-men #6).

    These "bottom tier" mutants could just as easily be swayed to worship the more powerfull mutants like Storm as gods or idols too. So i don't think there is much stopping something like it in Krakoa.

    It actualy makes me wonder how things are or were organized on Arrako or that implied early mutant society Apocalypse and Genesis were supposed to have ruled over?

    What role did the "dead weight" mutants had in it? Given Apocalypse "survival of the fittest" mentality in the past, i wouldn't be surprised if they acted similar to the greek spartans in how they decided on the "value" of newborn mutants.

    Certainly something Storm would not be keen on to introduce to Krakoa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    To me, it will come down to her value as a person and a spiritual leader, because it's not just her power that makes her special in a island of super powered beings, but her Spirit and Character, wich can make the mutants of krakoa have faith in her when she speak for their nascent culture, a difrent type of faith than the people of wakanda have in her but valuable none the less.
    I wonder how many mutants might become inspired by her to reject the revival process after her declaration in Giant Sized Storm? Like feeling they too should value their lives more and reject the notion of "oh well i just come back" that seems to have commonplace allready with some parts of the mutants?

    Also if she is a goddess now. Does that mean she could potentialy empower others with minor version of her own power?

    Like if a mutant has enough faith in her they can redirect lightning, have mist or wind appear around their bodies like a cloak or shield?

    I could imagine Apocalypse or some of the other villanous egomanics of Krakoa might not be pleased with such a development.

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