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  1. #8401
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    This is comics, recontextualizing the nature of a character's powers happens quite often. Immortal Hulk is doing it right now (to critical acclaim), Coates was doing it when he explored Storm's godhead, etc. Franklin's powers being retconned is hardly earth shattering and functionally no different than Storm and her boyfriend having a falling out. The motivations (the primary writer wanting to tell their story without the influence of another writer) are the same.
    storm falling out with TChalla was far worse and mean spirited. Also it wasn't needed at all

  2. #8402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    The X-office isn't done with the greater MU by a longshot. We've got a war looming on the horizon.
    Hickman isn't god and writers will write what they want to write. Do I think an editorially-enforced conflict is coming soon because writers aren't creative and rabid fans want to see their favorite characters ravage the wider MU? Absolutely, I don't overestimate what the end game of Hickman's story is.

    But I think enough room will be left for writers to shift their own narratives accordingly so they don't have to be enslaved to what Hickman and the X-office does. If my hunch is right that Redjack is taking over the next BP relaunch we won't be seeing much X-Men in his series or vice versa until the last moment, I don't think those seeds are gonna get explored to the extent some fans (and characters) need them to be. I think the same will be true for most major characters and their respective books.
    Last edited by chief12d; 11-18-2020 at 02:32 PM.

  3. #8403

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Hickman isn't god and writers will write what they want to write. Do I think an editorially-enforced conflict is coming soon because writers aren't creative and rabid fans want to see their favorite characters ravage the wider MU? Absolutely, I don't overestimate what the end game of Hickman's story is.

    But I think enough room will be left for writers to shift their own narratives accordingly so they don't have to be enslaved to what Hickman and the X-office does. If my hunch is right that Redjack is taking over the next BP relaunch we won't be seeing much X-Men in his series or vice versa until the last moment, I don't think those seeds are gonna get explored to the extent some fans (and characters) want them to be. I think the same will be true for most major characters and their respective books.
    I must be the only one that don't care about my fave in the main mu then. LOL. I want storm to be in the x-books i'm simple. If i want to read cap i get cap if i want to read avengers i get that and the occasional crossover is nice but i don't need Storm on FF or Avengers if i can get X-traodinary or X-treme. Those movies i think got to people head and they all MU MU. But thats just how i see it.
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  4. #8404
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Which as i've said many time i totally don't begrudge a writer for wanting to tell his story but i know what my jumping off point is. Also Banner and the multiple personality thing has been alluded too for as long as i can remember also him being a latent mutant who the gamma bomb awakened but never truly confirmed. In his case again it's a little different than specifically doing something we have seen before with Franklyn losing his powers and now trying to make it different and thats coming off a storyline in the same year where they just did a storyline where reed altered his dna to hide that very thing. Also coates explored storm's godhood which was also always hinted at he did not take anything away from her nor did Storm breaking up with Tchalla take anything away from her other than a man at the moment. What actually happened doesn't make sense to me but i can agree it is what it is. Storm on the other hand it make sense to me after waiting on Tchalla and Wakanda time after time when they asked that it would bother her that they asked her to wait on them and she chose not to. But i try to think in context.
    Adding a mystical, horror component to gamma radiation, the exploration of the One Below All, and other such adjustments to the Hulk mythos are the kind of recontextualizing I'm talking about. It's expanding on and retrofitting established concepts to tell new stories and make retcons to improve a character as the writer sees fit. Same goes for Storm and Coates. There were elements of mysticism to her character before Coates, but the idea of the Hadari Yao, a godhead that gave her access to special weather manipulation, and more were all additive reinterpretations of Storm's lore according to the Black Panther books.

    That's not any different than what Slott did with Franklin. We thought his powers were one thing, now they're not. We thought his powers were from this source, sike, they come from somewhere else. These things are a part of what comics have been about since they're inception, they're as natural to the medium as the number of times characters break up and hook back up. FF today was a poorly written issue but it didn't do anything in terms of retconning and recontextualizing that hasn't been happening since comics started getting written.

  5. #8405
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I must be the only one that don't care about my fave in the main mu then. LOL. I want storm to be in the x-books i'm simple. If i want to read cap i get cap if i want to read avengers i get that and the occasional crossover is nice but i don't need Storm on FF or Avengers if i can get X-traodinary or X-treme. Those movies i think got to people head and they all MU MU. But thats just how i see it.
    I don't either but it's a good thing my post wasn't addressing my own thoughts specifically lol. I've been clear about my preference for the X-Office to stay in their own corner and play with their own toys, I'm just saying that doesn't seem to be something Hickman is particularly interested in doing, though we'll see what becomes of his story. People seem to think Hickman is Kevin Feige and can just adjust the MU as he sees fit to tell his story and I'm saying that's not the case, every writer has at least some degree of control over their own books and the narrative of Krakoa may not be as expansive as they think. But I agree I'm happy to see Storm back with the X-Men and hopefully being put on the track towards greatness without her boyfriend's mythos (outside the sword she stole from his kingdom lol).

  6. #8406

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Adding a mystical, horror component to gamma radiation, the exploration of the One Below All, and other such adjustments to the Hulk mythos are the kind of recontextualizing I'm talking about. It's expanding on and retrofitting established concepts to tell new stories and make retcons to improve a character as the writer sees fit. Same goes for Storm and Coates. There were elements of mysticism to her character before Coates, but the idea of the Hadari Yao, a godhead that gave her access to special weather manipulation, and more were all additive reinterpretations of Storm's lore according to the Black Panther books.

    That's not any different than what Slott did with Franklin. We thought his powers were one thing, now they're not. We thought his powers were from this source, sike, they come from somewhere else. These things are a part of what comics have been about since they're inception, they're as natural to the medium as the number of times characters break up and hook back up. FF today was a poorly written issue but it didn't do anything in terms of retconning and recontextualizing that hasn't been happening since comics started getting written.
    I can see your point. I think at the end of the day though this will hurt the FF under Slott run if not a red herring. Storm story did not hurt BP, it may with fans but not sales, and the wakanda thing didn't hurt Marauders, it may have stoked passionate fans but i do think this loss of connection to the X-men will come back to bite the FF and Slott's run but i could be wrong and only time will tell. Wanda and Pietro are still trying to recover even though it's more than just that x-gene loss.
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  7. #8407
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I honestly don't remember but i know for me i'm just burnt out on the narrative that Storm had nothing without tchalla and just want to focus on storm. Thats not to take away from her past but i want to see my girl stand on her own again. People love to say she had nothing and wasn't being used but i enjoyed X-treme xmen which was running and something was on the horizon before it was pulled. I didn't like the premise of Extraodrinary X-men but i enjoyed the hell out of the issues and Storm leading and she was doing fine and then she was pulled again and all of a sudden stepped down for kitty. And yes that may be on the x-office but all i know is as a Storm fan what i like and it's not having to go get BP, others do. I want Storm to have prominence again on her own because for whatever reason anytime she is paired with tchalla she pays and again that may be on the x-office but as an x-fan first and a storm fan it just ain't worth it for me. I am honestly loving Storm lately and i don't bemoan anyone what they like, just not for me.
    I understand your sentiment of her needing to stand on her own but I dint see how being with tchalla does to impede that. I think ororos biggest problem to achieving the prominence her fans want is due to the xoffices. what I see happen is the xwriters use her in uninspired ways, another office (bp) uses her in ways that elevates her beyond the status quo and then the xoffices respond akin to a child being upset another kids is playing with a toy they put aside in their toy box. the onus lies with the xoffices. they don't want to give her a solo, they have had her take a backseat to kitty, cyclops, Wolverine, Jean, Xavier, magneto and others. her being with BP and using him as an excuse to me is a cop-out and redirects the focus on where it should be which is the xoffices.

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    storm falling out with TChalla was far worse and mean spirited. Also it wasn't needed at all
    exactly. Coates and hudlin both have a deep love for the characters so xwriters going out of their way to troll their work wasn't necessary.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  8. #8408
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    Come on Death, if you want Storm, you gonna have to do better than that.

    This woman has faced down the real "Death" to save the soul of T'Challa and all you have to bring o the fight is a scary face.
    Some of us wait, some of us act.

  9. #8409
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Hickman isn't god and writers will write what they want to write. Do I think an editorially-enforced conflict is coming soon because writers aren't creative and rabid fans want to see their favorite characters ravage the wider MU? Absolutely, I don't overestimate what the end game of Hickman's story is.

    But I think enough room will be left for writers to shift their own narratives accordingly so they don't have to be enslaved to what Hickman and the X-office does. If my hunch is right that Redjack is taking over the next BP relaunch we won't be seeing much X-Men in his series or vice versa until the last moment, I don't think those seeds are gonna get explored to the extent some fans (and characters) need them to be. I think the same will be true for most major characters and their respective books.
    It doesn't have to be Hickman, it can be any writer.

    Characters in Marvel used to interact frequently(70's, 80's mid-90's) without bias prior to the drama that we see now. I have now problems with heroes appearing in other titles, especially if they exist in a shared universe. In fact I want that.

    It adds layers to the characters and can be beneficial when done right. But that seems to be the problem. Marvel seems only to care about hero vs hero drama and will milk it to the bone.

    I have plenty of comics where heroes have interacted. There's usually some sort of misunderstanding at first and then the heroes work it out and team up to take out the bad guys. They walk away with a better understanding and respect for each other.

    Now it's just "my side is right and your side is wrong so we need to fight to prove our point". It spills over to the fanbases and now everybody is entrenched in their war camps ready to pounce.

  10. #8410
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    Come on Death, if you want Storm, you gonna have to do better than that.

    This woman has faced down the real "Death" to save the soul of T'Challa and all you have to bring o the fight is a scary face.
    It's going to take more than a death stare to scare Death.

    He's not going down without a fright!

  11. #8411
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    Come on Death, if you want Storm, you gonna have to do better than that.

    This woman has faced down the real "Death" to save the soul of T'Challa and all you have to bring o the fight is a scary face.
    absolutely fact boo!
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  12. #8412
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    absolutely fact boo!
    Was it actually the Cosmic Abstract that's always around Thanos or?

  13. #8413
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLY360 View Post
    Was it actually the Cosmic Abstract that's always around Thanos or?
    no not that one. it is the one that is more popularly depicted with the sickle.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  14. #8414
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    no not that one. it is the one that is more popularly depicted with the sickle.
    I always assumed that was Mistress Death.
    Some of us wait, some of us act.

  15. #8415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    It doesn't have to be Hickman, it can be any writer.

    Characters in Marvel used to interact frequently(70's, 80's mid-90's) without bias prior to the drama that we see now. I have now problems with heroes appearing in other titles, especially if they exist in a shared universe. In fact I want that.

    It adds layers to the characters and can be beneficial when done right. But that seems to be the problem. Marvel seems only to care about hero vs hero drama and will milk it to the bone.

    I have plenty of comics where heroes have interacted. There's usually some sort of misunderstanding at first and then the heroes work it out and team up to take out the bad guys. They walk away with a better understanding and respect for each other.

    Now it's just "my side is right and your side is wrong so we need to fight to prove our point". It spills over to the fanbases and now everybody is entrenched in their war camps ready to pounce.
    Fans also became more tribalist. I hope it will end as writers use heroes more like colleagues then adversaries

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