New X-Men Appreciation 2020

[Havok83]

Its an analogy and I understand bladeofdarkness' point. With that said, someone being revealed as gay isnt a massive character change unless they are firmly established. Alot of the younger generation simply arent

[danielsan52]

My main point was that these characters have no life outside the page.
Is your going to have them go through, these massive character changes, at least show, don't just tell.

Why? If it is told, then it is cannon. Not everything needs to happen on-panel.

[bladeofdarkness]

Why? If it it told, then it is cannon. Not everything needs to happen on-panel.

To do it off panel robs these characters of on panel development... And many of them could frankly use the added panel time.

These are characters in a story - tell their story.
Don't just tell us after the fact, and Rob us of that story

[CGAR]

Honestly I thought Cessily was bi. And now she's straight up lesbian. Which is fine but still. Its like when did this happen. A little insight and character development would be appreciated. Also the way Brian Woods started their relationship was just not the business.

I miss Cessily hanging with her brothers Julian and Santo. But now Santo is gone.

[Anduinel]

Honestly I thought Cessily was bi. And now she's straight up lesbian. Which is fine but still. Its like when did this happen. A little insight and character development would be appreciated. Also the way Brian Woods started their relationship was just not the business.

I miss Cessily hanging with her brothers Julian and Santo. But now Santo is gone.

Or Eyeboy doesn't know Mercury's entire romantic history and assumed "kissing a girl" = "lesbian".

[Kingdom X]

Honestly I thought Cessily was bi. And now she's straight up lesbian. Which is fine but still. Its like when did this happen. A little insight and character development would be appreciated. Also the way Brian Woods started their relationship was just not the business.

I miss Cessily hanging with her brothers Julian and Santo. But now Santo is gone.

People mischaracterize bi people all the time so I wouldn't read into it too much

[CGAR]

Nah I'm fine with it. We haven't gotten much from Cessily in a VERY long time. Leah would be great at writing a story beat for her.

[Outburstz]

Don't worry Surge one day you will be a leader again

[Ambaryerno]

Keep in mind this kind of **** is never expected for straight/cis characters. Maybe if you’re straight, be quiet. Just shhhh for me.

You’re still just proving my point. “Sit down, shut up, and accept it. And if you don’t then <X>.”

NO fan has the right to tell another they have to quietly accept a change to a character and aren’t allowed to object because reasons. Outing Bobby and Cessily was hamfisted and clumsy, and just plain badly written. There was no setup or payoff. It was dictated and that was that.

[Kingdom X]

You’re still just proving my point. “Sit down, shut up, and accept it. And if you don’t then <X>.”

NO fan has the right to tell another they have to quietly accept a change to a character and aren’t allowed to object because reasons. Outing Bobby and Cessily was hamfisted and clumsy, and just plain badly written. There was no setup or payoff. It was dictated and that was that.

How are the Bobby and Cessily situations the same? Bobby was literally outed by a straight character, while it seems like Cessily just got into a relationship off screen. We don't even know how she identifies yet.

I agree that both could have used more exploration, but while Boddy's situation was badly written and kind of offensive Cessily's seems more underwritten than anything.

[Hi-Fi]

You’re still just proving my point. “Sit down, shut up, and accept it. And if you don’t then <X>.”

NO fan has the right to tell another they have to quietly accept a change to a character and aren’t allowed to object because reasons. Outing Bobby and Cessily was hamfisted and clumsy, and just plain badly written. There was no setup or payoff. It was dictated and that was that.

That's your opinion. Most of us would argue that there was more than enough setup for Bobby to come out as gay. You mentioned how long it took for Elliott Page to identify himself as a trans man, but Bobby's decades of stories as "straight" make his coming out as something dictated and hamfisted? Decide what you mean. Also, dictated by who other than the writers? You think editorial forced writers to make a C-list character like Cessily bi? lol

[Ambaryerno]

That's your opinion. Most of us would argue that there was more than enough setup for Bobby to come out as gay. You mentioned how long it took for Elliott Page to identify himself as a trans man, but Bobby's decades of stories as "straight" make his coming out as something dictated and hamfisted? Decide what you mean. Also, dictated by who other than the writers? You think editorial forced writers to make a C-list character like Cessily bi? lol

You say there was "more than enough setup" for Bobby? All right, then show me WHERE this development occurred. The reality is it doesn't ACTUALLY exist. We didn't get to see the introspection where Bobby questions his identity. The most I've ever seen presented as "evidence" is out-of-context panels that SOME people read that way (like that damn panel of Jubilee about to drink Laura's blood, taken from a story focused on themes of self harm, and self-destructive and suicidal behavior but doesn't it just look SEXY!!!). Others were panels that rely HEAVILY on values dissonance and societal changes since they were originally written to squeeze the square peg into the round hole (fashion and language CHANGES. There are many things that were masculine even HALF a century ago that would be considered effeminate today). His outing was literally the punchline to a 50-odd year old fandom joke.

And dictated as in Told, not Shown. We were TOLD Bobby was gay. We were TOLD that Cessily is bi. These weren't things that came naturally out of the writing. They were declared to be and so they were.

[Will Evans]

My main point was that these characters have no life outside the page.
Is your going to have them go through, these massive character changes, at least show, don't just tell.

I didn’t need to see Stinger marry Omertà and give birth on panel.

Some things are just going to occur off panel with characters that aren’t in a set book.


Hell, some of us on this forum already thought Cessily was queer. I know I did.

My personal experience: I figured Bobby was on the Kinsey scale in that 90s issue where he and Jean went shopping . (The X-babies issue where Dazzler was revealed to no longer be pregnant.) we got introspective from Bobby in those issues.

[Kingdom X]

You say there was "more than enough setup" for Bobby? All right, then show me WHERE this development occurred. The reality is it doesn't ACTUALLY exist. We didn't get to see the introspection where Bobby questions his identity. The most I've ever seen presented as "evidence" is out-of-context panels that SOME people read that way (like that damn panel of Jubilee about to drink Laura's blood, taken from a story focused on themes of self harm, and self-destructive and suicidal behavior but doesn't it just look SEXY!!!). Others were panels that rely HEAVILY on values dissonance and societal changes since they were originally written to squeeze the square peg into the round hole (fashion and language CHANGES. There are many things that were masculine even HALF a century ago that would be considered effeminate today). His outing was literally the punchline to a 50-odd year old fandom joke.

And dictated as in Told, not Shown. We were TOLD Bobby was gay. We were TOLD that Cessily is bi. These weren't things that came naturally out of the writing. They were declared to be and so they were.

I 100% get where you’re coming from with Bobby. He’d been around for a long time, had several serious relationships, and was a mainstay in a lot books (including those written by Bendis) where we didn’t get any introspection hinting that he’s gay.

All that being said many modern comics are severely lacking when it comes to actually exploring how characters are feeling. Hell, I still don’t really know about how Betsy feels about being Caucasian again. For characters who aren’t mainstays and aren’t consistently being showcased we’re going to get TOLD about their life updates. I guess I just really don’t see the big deal of two background characters getting together ESPECIALLY if it doesn’t contradict previous stories. I’d be interested to know if people would be making this big a deal about off screen developments if she started dating one of her male teammates.

[Ambaryerno]

I absolutely would be annoyed about it if Cessily popped up randomly dating, say, Indra without anything showing them having an interest in one another in the past.

And I agree: There's a MAJOR problem with the lack of character development and sense of how characters feel in contemporary comics. Unless you're Wolverine, Cable, Gambit, X-23, or the handful of others who can maintain a solo book long enough to explore the character's internal development. IMO it owes a LOT to how everything these days is all about setting up the next big crossover event. It's gotten so bad that the current event almost only exists for setting up the NEXT event in an endless cycle. And I'd also argue that another major contribution is the Big Two's rigid adherence to Status Quo and maintaining the sliding time scale.