New X-Men Appreciation 2020

[nandes]

You say there was "more than enough setup" for Bobby? All right, then show me WHERE this development occurred. The reality is it doesn't ACTUALLY exist. We didn't get to see the introspection where Bobby questions his identity. The most I've ever seen presented as "evidence" is out-of-context panels that SOME people read that way (like that damn panel of Jubilee about to drink Laura's blood, taken from a story focused on themes of self harm, and self-destructive and suicidal behavior but doesn't it just look SEXY!!!). Others were panels that rely HEAVILY on values dissonance and societal changes since they were originally written to squeeze the square peg into the round hole (fashion and language CHANGES. There are many things that were masculine even HALF a century ago that would be considered effeminate today). His outing was literally the punchline to a 50-odd year old fandom joke.

And dictated as in Told, not Shown. We were TOLD Bobby was gay. We were TOLD that Cessily is bi. These weren't things that came naturally out of the writing. They were declared to be and so they were.

Marjorie Liu wrote an entire arc about Bobby choosing to destroy the world because he hated himself. And his personal arc on Liu's run ended on a scene with Northstar with subtext so clear that it isn't even subtext




Saying there wasn't enough build up also doesn't acknowledge the fact that writers have/or at least had to get editorial approval to portray characters' sexualities as anything other than straight - a thing that was even banned when a lot of the panels you said were taken out of context were released. Bendis was the first writer to write a (poorly framed, yes) story about Bobby being gay, but he wasn't the first writer to want to tell a story about Bobby being gay/not straight. There is an important difference there

[mugiwara]

I absolutely would be annoyed about it if Cessily popped up randomly dating, say, Indra without anything showing them having an interest in one another in the past.

That's the problem with characetrs who don't have their own series.
Either changes are happening off panel and it's a bit WTF.
Or changes don't happen at all, and it's like the characters are frozen in the same state until they get some crumbs of spotlight during the funerals of one of them.

[Kingdom X]

Marjorie Liu wrote an entire arc about Bobby choosing to destroy the world because he hated himself. And his arc ended on a scene with Northstar with subtext so clear that it isn't even subtext




Saying there wasn't enough build up also doesn't acknowledge the fact that writers have/or at least had to get editorial approval to portray characters' sexualities as anything other than straight - a thing that was even banned when a lot of the panels you said were taken out of context were released. Bendis was the first writer to write a (poorly framed, yes) story about Bobby being gay, but he wasn't the first writer to want to tell a story about Bobby being gay/not straight. There is an important differences there

That's the first time I've read that scene and it's actually so beautiful. Also someone needs to get the 05 some therapy cause I swear they've all gone bad at this point.

[skyvolt2000]

Saying there wasn't enough build up also doesn't acknowledge the fact that writers have/or at least had to get editorial approval to portray characters' sexualities as anything other than straight - a thing that was even banned when a lot of the panels you said were taken out of context were released. Bendis was the first writer to write a (poorly framed, yes) story about Bobby being gay, but he wasn't the first writer to want to tell a story about Bobby being gay/not straight. There is an important difference there

Correct. Even tv shows had to deal with it.

Static Shock-Gears/Richie was gay. McDuffie confirmed it. He said they were not allowed to talk about it or really show it.

Star Wars Last Skywalker-did we not hear about a gay couple being edited out?

[Hulkout42]

Honestly I thought Cessily was bi. And now she's straight up lesbian. Which is fine but still. Its like when did this happen. A little insight and character development would be appreciated. Also the way Brian Woods started their relationship was just not the business.

I miss Cessily hanging with her brothers Julian and Santo. But now Santo is gone.

What are the odds that when the inevitable 11th reset happens and suddenly the Rockslide we knew comes back? Or is this just wishful thinking on my part?

[Hulkout42]

I absolutely would be annoyed about it if Cessily popped up randomly dating, say, Indra without anything showing them having an interest in one another in the past.

And I agree: There's a MAJOR problem with the lack of character development and sense of how characters feel in contemporary comics. Unless you're Wolverine, Cable, Gambit, X-23, or the handful of others who can maintain a solo book long enough to explore the character's internal development. IMO it owes a LOT to how everything these days is all about setting up the next big crossover event. It's gotten so bad that the current event almost only exists for setting up the NEXT event in an endless cycle. And I'd also argue that another major contribution is the Big Two's rigid adherence to Status Quo and maintaining the sliding time scale.

The big two are just scrapping the bottom of the barrel and it has been that way for some time.

[Hulkout42]

That's the first time I've read that scene and it's actually so beautiful. Also someone needs to get the 05 some therapy cause I swear they've all gone bad at this point.

Too late for Hank i'm afraid, he has embraced his inner Dark Beast. Not that anyone cares anymore about him given the hatred expressed towards him.

I concede that Bobby has something to work with but was poorly exceuted i just don't feel the same was done with Prodigy and Mercury.

I mean for example i am sure we would all accept if there is a scene where Jay Guthrie and Sooraya Quadir reunite and profess there love for one another because how long did we see those two make a connection that was tragically ended. And then how would anyone here feel if suddenly Julian pops up in a scene sharing a moment with Josh? Would the acceptable response be to just accept it or question it? I am of the latter because i cannot just sit there and see it happen and not go "Where did this come from!?".

[MYCMTSC]

Marjorie Liu wrote an entire arc about Bobby choosing to destroy the world because he hated himself. And his personal arc on Liu's run ended on a scene with Northstar with subtext so clear that it isn't even subtext




Saying there wasn't enough build up also doesn't acknowledge the fact that writers have/or at least had to get editorial approval to portray characters' sexualities as anything other than straight - a thing that was even banned when a lot of the panels you said were taken out of context were released. Bendis was the first writer to write a (poorly framed, yes) story about Bobby being gay, but he wasn't the first writer to want to tell a story about Bobby being gay/not straight. There is an important difference there

Can we just plaster your post as the background of this forum?

Well said.

[Will Evans]

Too late for Hank i'm afraid, he has embraced his inner Dark Beast. Not that anyone cares anymore about him given the hatred expressed towards him.

I concede that Bobby has something to work with but was poorly exceuted i just don't feel the same was done with Prodigy and Mercury.

I mean for example i am sure we would all accept if there is a scene where Jay Guthrie and Sooraya Quadir reunite and profess there love for one another because how long did we see those two make a connection that was tragically ended. And then how would anyone here feel if suddenly Julian pops up in a scene sharing a moment with Josh? Would the acceptable response be to just accept it or question it? I am of the latter because i cannot just sit there and see it happen and not go "Where did this come from!?".

It worked for Karma

[The Big G]

SO Hellion has new Kroakoan prosthetics via Forge.

So I'm thinking are they like A) Luke's hand in Return of the Jedi or B) like the Terminator's living tissue over a metal endoskeleton?

[Fokken]

Nicely said, Nandes. You speak truth to power. There are SEVERAL authors/creatives who've gone on record stating the intention with their writing -- albeit nuanced because EDITORIAL MANDATE -- to lead the reader to conclusions that only a powerhouse like Bendis (I say he's a powerhouse not because I'm a fanboy but because the guy gets his pick of all the best art teams, any characters he wants, and basically tells editorial what he's doing and does it because his name rakes in money-- so, fan or not, the guy has power) can come along and pull the ripcord that creatives like Scott Lobdell, Marjorie Liu, Chuck Austen, wove the rope for.

On a more NXM related topic, does anyone else wonder if Emma plans to use that swanky new island Citadel that Magneto built her over in Giant Size as a new Academy??

[Kingdom X]

Nicely said, Nandes. You speak truth to power. There are SEVERAL authors/creatives who've gone on record stating the intention with their writing -- albeit nuanced because EDITORIAL MANDATE -- to lead the reader to conclusions that only a powerhouse like Bendis (I say he's a powerhouse not because I'm a fanboy but because the guy gets his pick of all the best art teams, any characters he wants, and basically tells editorial what he's doing and does it because his name rakes in money-- so, fan or not, the guy has power) can come along and pull the ripcord that creatives like Scott Lobdell, Marjorie Liu, Chuck Austen, wove the rope for.

On a more NXM related topic, does anyone else wonder if Emma plans to use that swanky new island Citadel that Magneto built her over in Giant Size as a new Academy??

Thank you! I swear someone was SHOCKED when I said that Marvel was resistant to openly showcasing queer characters in the 2000s.

I didn't even think about that as a use for the Citadel, but I will take back every bad thing I said about that issue if that's the case.

[Fokken]

Thank you! I swear someone was SHOCKED when I said that Marvel was resistant to openly showcasing queer characters in the 2000s.

I didn't even think about that as a use for the Citadel, but I will take back every bad thing I said about that issue if that's the case.

I think people frequently forget just how far that gay rights movement has actually come and how representation was near nonexistent and/or only in extremely tame/nuanced depictions until very recently.

RE the Citadel: I mean, is Emma Frost the kind of woman to commission such a structure for the exclusive purpose of being EXTRA AF ?? Yes. But... perhaps she's got additional functional intentions too. Fingers crossed! I'd love to have Emma establish an Academy that functions similarly to that of the House of M New X-Men title, dividing mutant talents and fostering them as ambassadors, communicators, defenders, etc.

[Havok83]

I hope not. The academy concept is played out and its whats stifled any growth or progression with these characters. They've been students for 20 years! That shouldnt be a status quo that Marvel keeps resetting. I really dont think we need to see a bunch of new kids in school either. Its really time for something different

[Ambaryerno]

I hope not. The academy concept is played out and its whats stifled any growth or progression with these characters. They've been students for 20 years! That shouldnt be a status quo that Marvel keeps resetting. I really dont think we need to see a bunch of new kids in school either. Its really time for something different

That's never going to happen. Marvel has made it clear they never intend the NXM to truly graduate. They've already been blurring the lines between the NXM and subsequent X-Kids (Fans: We want the New X-Men! Editorial: Ok, here's Eye-Boy and Goldballs. What do you mean they're not New X-Men? They're X-Men, and they're New!). Now they've used Krakoa to take away everything that defined them as a distinct generation. Whether people like it or not, the traumas that disproportionately affected them after M-Day also made them unique from every decade's generation before and since. They were the kids who lost BIG time. They watched 99% of their friends lose their powers, and many of them get subsequently murdered. They were the group defined by their disillusionment with Xavier and the elder X-Men, and NEVER held back in calling them out for it ("There's nothing more you can teach us, Prof. We already know how to die").

But along comes Krakoa and all the dead and depowered kids are back in the fold! No more trauma! (except when they can use it for cheap shock value RE: Rockslide) Now they've been relegated to a Generic Student Body with the Aaron and Bendis brats, and that's how Marvel is going to keep them.