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  1. #406
    Fantastic Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Similar powersets? All Cable has is his TP and TK whereas M has a host of other mutant abilities. Cable rarely uses his TP and TK bc of his TO virus and when he does its very low level. His main form of combat are his guns and people dont say he's OP bc he simply isnt
    Cable was literally born with tk and tp like his mother. Cable definitely uses his tk and tp especially kid cable with his last usage in xos creation and cable #4. In uncanny avengers red skull with Xavier's stolen brain said he was an omega level mutant. His cybernetics enhancement give him super strength, durability, enhanced vision multi-spectrum vision, teleportation and the ability to tinker around with technology. The full strenght of his tp and tk varies from title to title but the point remains he still has those powers along with a host of other ones and no one complains about Cable being too overpowered. While with Monet her tp and tk also varied from book to book (but since x-men vol. its been established that she's a strong user) but people constantly complain that she's too overpowered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Thor is not a telepath, Quire is very powerful but not bullet-proof as we have so acutely seen of late, Cuckoos are not telekinetic and Hellion is not a telepath. Hope doesn't have powers if she doesn't have other mutants nearby.
    I'm not sure I get your 'white vs non-white' argument. Where Storm and Karma fit within that thinking?
    I'm going to assume in good faith that you're not purposefully missing the point.

    What does it matter that Thor isn't a telepath and why are you now bringing it up? The point about Monet's power were never about her possessing telepathy and telekinesis, it's about the amount of different powers she has. It she had some sort of energy manipulation power along with teleportation people would still say she's overpowered. And anyways you're the one who brought up Thor.

    All the other characters limitation you mentioned are semantics along with wether they have tk or tp. I never said everyone of those characters possess both tk and tp, simply that tk and tp are powers that all these characters have.

    You're confusing Hope with Rogue, Hope doesn't need to be near a mutant to access their powers, she has access to all mutant powers. Plus she was a phoenix host, and demonstrated several times tk and tp abilities on her own.

    Storm was the first female character of colour to have multiple powers that aren't physical or animal based and at time it feels like she's the only one allowed to be that powerful when there's a host of powerful white characters running around with multiple powers. Karma is just a telepath and empath and again, she's rarely been used for years with her last concrete appearance in Liu's amazing x-men run.
    Last edited by frostedemma; 09-28-2020 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #407
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    Cable was literally born with tk and tp like his mother. Cable definitely uses his tk and tp especially kid cable with his last usage in xos creation and cable #4. In uncanny avengers red skull with Xavier's stolen brain said he was an omega level mutant. His cybernetics enhancement give him super strength, durability, enhanced vision multi-spectrum vision, teleportation and the ability to tinker around with technology. The full strenght of his tp and tk varies from title to title but the point remains he still has those powers along with a host of other ones and no one complains about Cable being too overpowered. While with Monet her tp and tk also varied from book to book (but since x-men vol. its been established that she's a strong user) but people constantly complain that she's too overpowered.
    I know what his powers are but like I said he doesnt use them often bc he has had a limitation placed on him in the form of the TO virus. When he does use them, its low level. His TP is used for communication and his TK to simply move things. The full strength of it doesnt vary that much bc he never has access to its full strength. That happened once for a brief time in the old Cable and Deadpool series and story specific. Cable's main form of attack has always been his guns and never his mutant powers

  3. #408
    Fantastic Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I know what his powers are but like I said he doesnt use them often bc he has had a limitation placed on him in the form of the TO virus. When he does use them, its low level. His TP is used for communication and his TK to simply move things. The full strength of it doesnt vary that much bc he never has access to its full strength. That happened once for a brief time in the old Cable and Deadpool series and story specific. Cable's main form of attack has always been his guns and never his mutant powers
    Uncanny avengers was a resent as 2017 when got all his psionic powers back with red skull telling him he's an omega level mutant. In messiah war, avengers: x-sanction, in cable & deadpool mini from 2016 he showed tk and tp in full strenght and he wasn't call overpowered then. All this nitpicking is detracting from the point me and others were trying to establish that male characters get to have multiple powers and be uber powerful with no accusation of being overpowered or a mary sue thrown their way, something female characters, especially non-white one, are constantly being accused of.

  4. #409
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    Uncanny avengers was a resent as 2017 when got all his psionic powers back with red skull telling him he's an omega level mutant. In messiah war, avengers: x-sanction, in cable & deadpool mini from 2016 he showed tk and tp in full strenght and he wasn't call overpowered then. All this nitpicking is detracting from the point me and others were trying to establish that male characters get to have multiple powers and be uber powerful with no accusation of being overpowered or a mary sue thrown their way, something female characters, especially non-white one, are constantly being accused of.
    Red skull referred to Cable as an omega level mutant bc he was one, but he wasnt exhibiting omega level feats bc of his limitations. And no he didnt have access to his full TP/TK in those other stories. In X-Sanction he was becoming (and eventually lost control) of his powers and was complete consumed by the TO virus. He didnt even use TP and the TK was a constant struggle, which he again lost. He didnt use his powers in Messiah War. What you will find though is tons of gun action. A Cable used his TK to throw some rocks at Deadpool in that mini and scan his mind which is the low level stuff I mentioned he tends to do.

  5. #410
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    The point about Monet's power were never about her possessing telepathy and telekinesis, it's about the amount of different powers she has. It she had some sort of energy manipulation power along with teleportation people would still say she's overpowered.
    Absolutely, because she would be. My point about Thor was that since he already has lots of different powers, why should be he given (or she, not sure if Thor is female atm, not up to date with the Avengers world?) stuff like telepathy or adamantium claws? They would be completely superfluous to the character and make him LESS, not more interesting. M's gimmick is that she has lots of different strengths. As Jubilee (IIRC) said, her power is perfection. She is good at lots of things and this is a cool twist compared to typical mutant abilities which are usually based on doing one thing. However even with a concept like this you have to stop somewhere eventually, lest the character becomes too cluttered for her own good. I find it in extremely poor taste to suggest that this criticism of character concept is racism or chauvinism. It's just my view of storytelling. I'm explaining why people might see Monet overpowered and why it may have an effect on her popularity. If you don't agree, fine, but don't go around swinging branding irons you can't handle.

    Lets take Superman. A perfect white male hero. When John Byrne took over writing Superman in the 1980's, what did he do? He cut down Superman's abilities. He made him significantly LESS powerful. Did the characters popularity plummet? Nope, totally contrary.

    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    All the other characters limitation you mentioned are semantics along with wether they have tk or tp.
    No they are not. Xavier or Magneto, for all their powers, have significant weaknesses and limitations a storyteller has to work around if he wants them to prevail in a fight. It's these limitations which make characters more compelling. Nobody would be interested about Xavier if he was super-strong, bulletproof and could fly on top of his telepathy.

    I'll conclude by mentioning a character I really hate, a very poster-boy of a character being overpowered for no good reason - Sentry. Original concept of the character was kinda fun, but then it became just stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    You're confusing Hope with Rogue, Hope doesn't need to be near a mutant to access their powers, she has access to all mutant powers.
    Has it changed recently? UNIT defeated Hope simply by teleporting all the other mutants away from her.

  6. #411
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Has it changed recently? UNIT defeated Hope simply by teleporting all the other mutants away from her.
    No it hasnt. Hope's powers work in proximity and she only retains them for a short amount of time after she is away from said mutant. She cant just conjure up any power she wants

  7. #412
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    Well this recent X-men Monday sparked more controversy than anything else. I love it. This thread is hella active. Tbh I think before the end of Hickman's run Monet is gonna get quite the popularity boost.

  8. #413
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Collectively together Monet powers make her "overpowered" I don't have a problem with that general thinking, in a story where you need Monet to lose it difficult for you to find a way for her realistically lose. From a creators perspective I get why you would think like that her powers make very hard to damage or hurt her and very specific power level to defeat her. She then becomes a character like Thor,Dr Strange,Hulk, that you have take off board and they miss out on being in the story.

    The problem is Telepath, Super strength and invulnerability that is a overpower set and that isn't going anywhere, The fix to problem I would split up the powers in two different sets, I would put Telepathy,Telekinetic, flying in "M mode" Give her invulnerability, Super strength, Enhance senses in "Penance Mode". She keeps all the powers and any time you need to remove her from the story it would be she is M mode where she can be hurt. Now I am perfectly fine with nothing changing about Monet we have ridiculously powerful characters in comics and she could be one. They have written Superman, Wonder Woman, Thor and many others in comics with some issues but they have largely worked out, it is fine to have couple of characters who stand out in that way.

  9. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Collectively together Monet powers make her "overpowered" I don't have a problem with that general thinking, in a story where you need Monet to lose it difficult for you to find a way for her realistically lose. From a creators perspective I get why you would think like that her powers make very hard to damage or hurt her and very specific power level to defeat her. She then becomes a character like Thor,Dr Strange,Hulk, that you have take off board and they miss out on being in the story.

    The problem is Telepath, Super strength and invulnerability that is a overpower set and that isn't going anywhere, The fix to problem I would split up the powers in two different sets, I would put Telepathy,Telekinetic, flying in "M mode" Give her invulnerability, Super strength, Enhance senses in "Penance Mode". She keeps all the powers and any time you need to remove her from the story it would be she is M mode where she can be hurt. Now I am perfectly fine with nothing changing about Monet we have ridiculously powerful characters in comics and she could be one. They have written Superman, Wonder Woman, Thor and many others in comics with some issues but they have largely worked out, it is fine to have couple of characters who stand out in that way.
    Thor, Dr. Strange, Hulk are not only majorly popular in comics and cartoons, they are hugely popular in films where one gets to see them use their powers with massive special effects.

    But hey only women are overpoweee because until the movies comics were aimed at make audiences abd oldee can boys hated powerful women. Why even post in her thread if you donít like her? She had multiple powers from her creation. Itís the entire idea of her character.

    Most mutants are in the same side and you ignore mutants with more powers than her. Apocalypse has shape shifting, super strength to the point of head locking the Hulk, energy blasts, telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation, and sorcery along with his techno powers. Heís an ongoing character too.

    Saturnyne, while she is the antagonist, is a woman who can snap her fingers and do anything. While she is at times an antagonist she is not the standard villain and is an ongoing character.

    Yet Monetís too powerful. Itís amazing when people cannot see their own biases.

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    Well Monet was created before characters like Quentin Quire, the Stepford cuckoos, Nate Grey, Julian Keller and Hope Summers were introduced and tp and tk powers became rampant in the x-men, so I don't see why Monet has to suffer because of it. I'm glad she has both physical and psionic powers because more often than not non-white characters always get physical based powers like super strength and invulnerability while non white characters with psionic based or unique powers are more rare, they're just slightly more common in the x-men. Dani Moonstar is the only other female x-character to have both physical and psionic based powers and she too gets under powered.

    Thor already has super strenght, invulnerability and etc as well as his lighting, weather powers and mjolnir.



    Exactly. Cable and Monet have similar powerset and both have loads of powers but no one ever complains about Cable being too overpowered and "having too many powers" for their taste.
    I completely agree with you.

    Look at Rogue. She has super strength, flight, durability plus her mutant absorption powers let her takes the powers of others, temporarily or even permanently. Few people can stop Rogue from taking their powers. Rogue defeated Captain Marvel in their last fight and stole her powers again, this time temporarily. Yet Monet’s too powerful.

  11. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Magik seldom uses powerful sorcery on Earth. In Inferno she actually seemed pretty helpless on Earth, despite her Darkchilde form. She has been taught some generic sorcery by Strange since she came back, but personally I think this aspect should be kept at relatively low level, precisely due to same reason Claremont originally restricted her powers. Magik has plenty of spotlight in the X-world as it is.

    Magik in the New Mutants has a soul sword that worked only in magical creatures. The current Magik has a slukswkrr that cuts through anything.

    The New Nutants were kids and not superheroes. Magik is an adult now, of course as an adult sheíd be way more powerful.


    Thor is not a telepath, Quire is very powerful but not bullet-proof as we have so acutely seen of late, Cuckoos are not telekinetic and Hellion is not a telepath. Hope doesn't have powers if she doesn't have other mutants nearby.
    I'm not sure I get your 'white vs non-white' argument. Where Storm and Karma fit within that thinking?
    We have seen Magik use her magic to fight Siena Blaze, something she never could have done in the New Mutants days. Her powers work just fine on earth.

    Oh, and when she went Darkchilde she tore the gem right of on Juggernaut. Did not even need to use the soul sword.

    As for the racisl aspect he mentioned, there are way more powerful characters on Krakoa and there seems to be a huge bias against female or female characters of color.

  12. #417
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Thor, Dr. Strange, Hulk are not only majorly popular in comics and cartoons, they are hugely popular in films where one gets to see them use their powers with massive special effects.

    But hey only women are overpoweee because until the movies comics were aimed at make audiences abd oldee can boys hated powerful women. Why even post in her thread if you donít like her? She had multiple powers from her creation. Itís the entire idea of her character.

    Most mutants are in the same side and you ignore mutants with more powers than her. Apocalypse has shape shifting, super strength to the point of head locking the Hulk, energy blasts, telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation, and sorcery along with his techno powers. Heís an ongoing character too.

    Saturnyne, while she is the antagonist, is a woman who can snap her fingers and do anything. While she is at times an antagonist she is not the standard villain and is an ongoing character.

    Yet Monetís too powerful. Itís amazing when people cannot see their own biases.
    I get to quote myself
    Now I am perfectly fine with nothing changing about Monet we have ridiculously powerful characters in comics and she could be one. They have written Superman, Wonder Woman, Thor and many others in comics with some issues but they have largely worked out, it is fine to have couple of characters who stand out in that way.
    Apparently you didn't see this,How about you read entire post before responding silly to a comment

  13. #418
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    Betsy Braddock, telepath, telekinetic, psychic weapons. Just her mutant powers. She’s an extremely skilled fighter who can use her tk to enhance her strength. She was already able to fly. Now the amulet gives her added durability and strength plus the ability to travel to Otherworld mystically.

    Monet is overpowered. Lol.

    When Magik as Darkchilde ripped the crimson ruby out of Juggernaut on earth. She beat him without a sweat. Lol

    This a a fantasy world full of powerful people who have multiple powers or powers they can used uses in different ways. Full of people who can come back from the dead and not just Mutants.

    There’s no credible way to say Monet is overpowered in the context of the X-Men or Marvel.

  14. #419
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    I technically could do without the Penance form but it doesnít make her overpowered. Frankly she doesnít heís it her other powers and I donít really see what benefits it gives it.

    But I donít hate it either.

  15. #420
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    I technically could do without the Penance form but it doesnít make her overpowered. Frankly she doesnít heís it her other powers and I donít really see what benefits it gives it.

    But I donít hate it either.
    It gives her much needed variety in her costume colour palette4
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