Monet St. Croix / Penance Appreciation 2020

[frostedemma]

What exactly was out of character about Monet in X-Factor?

She was underpowered and reduced dollarstore version of Rogue powerwise for one and had a completely different personality. She was just downright mean and was the embodiment of all the bad writing tropes of female characters of the 90's and early to mid 2000's. Sure Monet could be sarcastic and always had quips that could come off as patronising and/or rude if you don't know her but she was never cruel. She'd never needlessly flaunt her powers in front depowered mutants and rub it people's face that she still has hers like she did to Rictor and the depowered crowd in mutant town, and having experienced grief and the loss of a parent she sure as well would never tell someone they're talking too long to accept their parent death or mentioned that she had a better relationship with their dead father than they ever had like she did with Terry. What really should have brought the two closer and cemented their relationship was Sean death and not them getting cheated on by Jaime.

Monet's superiority complex never felt classist (at least to me) and she never was a raging elitist until x-factor. She never was arrogant, sure she loads of bravado and a dash of self righteousness that came from her being genius and superpowered, teenage self importance and some of it was a front she put up to hide her emotions and insecurities her past with emplate left her. But she was never conceited and borderline eugenicist.

That with the bad writing PAD used where everyone was one dimensional and rude with hints of human emotions here and there except for Jamie and later adult Layla (who got to actually be full rounded characters) just makes her stint on X-factor disliked by a lot of her fans.

Like Monet feeling safe and allowing herself to be vulnerable around Jamie because she trusted him isn't a bad thing, that she has a relationship with someone she can open up with and makes her feel like herself again after her trauma is good actually. But how she was reduced to an accidental clone hook up with Jamie continuing to sleep with her after because he didn't want to face the consequences of his dupes actions and the whole thing dismissed as a one night stand after was terrible and cringe to read.

[RamaBird]

PAD's XFACTOR sounds like Guggenheim's X-Men Gold in a way. Meaning there's one amazing pet character while all others get treated as jokes.

[frostedemma]

PAD's XFACTOR sounds like Guggenheim's X-Men Gold in a way. Meaning there's one amazing pet character while all others get treated as jokes.

Yeah it's like that except at least in X-factor was an actual team book with the writer having a clear favourite whereas Guggenheim's gold was a Kitty solo.

[Agent Z]

What really should have brought the two closer and cemented their relationship was Sean death and not them getting cheated on by Jaime.

Fair enough.

Monet's superiority complex never felt classist (at least to me) and she never was a raging elitist until x-factor. She never was arrogant, sure she loads of bravado and a dash of self righteousness that came from her being genius and superpowered, teenage self importance and some of it was a front she put up to hide her emotions and insecurities her past with emplate left her.

Given how the other characters reacted to her in Gen X, especially Jubilee, I'm sure she was always supposed to be seen as somewhat arrogant.

That with the bad writing PAD used where everyone was one dimensional and rude with hints of human emotions here and there except for Jamie and later adult Layla (who got to actually be full rounded characters)

Even if you claim that Monet wasn't well rounded (I'd disagree), you can't say Rictor, Rahne, Terry and Shatterstar weren't well rounded.

[frostedemma]

Fair enough.



Given how the other characters reacted to her in Gen X, especially Jubilee, I'm sure she was always supposed to be seen as somewhat arrogant.





Even if you claim that Monet wasn't well rounded (I'd disagree), you can't say Rictor, Rahne, Terry and Shatterstar weren't well rounded.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to hard disagree with that last claim. Rictor was reduced to being rude and extremely bitter from losing his powers (which is understandable) but never evolved passed that even after coming out and getting his powers back, Rahne was a homophobic evangelical who tried to trap Rictor because "gays to hell". Terry was written with the same rudeness and arrogance as Monet but with an irish accent and substance abuse problem. Longstar and Shatterstar had interchangeable personalities with the only difference being Star was a pop culture fanatic and loved to duel.

And to Jubilee Monet was arrogant but of course Jubs pov was not unbiased and she held a grudge against Monet for the longest time.

[Will Evans]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to hard disagree with that last claim. Rictor was reduced to being rude and extremely bitter from losing his powers (which is understandable) but never evolved passed that even after coming out and getting his powers back, Rahne was a homophobic evangelical who tried to trap Rictor because "gays to hell". Terry was written with the same rudeness and arrogance as Monet but with an irish accent and substance abuse problem. Longstar and Shatterstar had interchangeable personalities with the only difference being Star was a pop culture fanatic and loved to duel.

Um, I’ve read each of those characters appearances throughout the 90s. And with the exception of Shatterstar being into pop culture, (new but notable for the early aughts), that’s keeping within character for each of them.

None of these guys are supposed to be Mary Sues. All of them are flawed in some way.

[Sutekh]

I read Monet in Generation X showing up with her trucks and trucks and trucks worth of clothes and stuff and her frosty dismissive remarks towards the others (like Jubilee) and very much got the idea that she was 'classist.' I don't think that's a bad thing. It made her interesting, and one of the standouts, for me.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to hard disagree with that last claim. Rictor was reduced to being rude and extremely bitter from losing his powers (which is understandable) but never evolved passed that even after coming out and getting his powers back,

And this, gosh, I was struck by, after so many issues of 'Madrox, PI' where he kind of falls into a case and stumbles through it, we see Rictor, practically on day one, when Siryn gets targetted by a whacko, track them down with solid investigative work and solve the day. Like, ten minutes on the job, he's *already better at it* than the 'star character.' I was impressed with the character development and growth he got, even without his powers.

It's like we read completely different books. (A problem I get all the time. I read online about how X sucks (the New Mutants movie, for instance) for reasons thus and such, and then I finally sit down to watch it, and... it's not that bad...)

[BroHomo]

Sunbathing isn't just for white people contrary to what some think.

https://www.*************/beauty/art...omen-of-colour

https://medium.com/an-injustice/brow...o-40e034923de4

Zuuuuh! I love sunbathing but it was a response to the whitewashing Of Monet and instead of just correcting the mistake they made her darker as a result of the Tanning and not just her natural skin tone

"Monet's skin tone, and what it should be, set off a flurry of researching into her history. And boy, it was confusing and rife with contradictions. Bottom line, although Monet has very dark skin, we're not entirely sure she's African-anything. Nevertheless, we're likely darkening her skin a bit."

Sooo arrogant obtuse stubborn etc

This is fast becoming one of those internet buzzwords people like to use without understanding what it means. Unless you're saying Monet was raped by Jamie and Darwin, she did not have any less agency than Betsy.

Uhhh Zut? In every single romantic tryst we've seen this gorgeous young 'confident' Lady have zero to miniscule say in the direction they would go or even if they'd continue. I meeean this chick is on the cover of Vanity Fair yet Madrox shot the club up Darwin gave her a pity lay and Sabretooth...ugh. Helen Keller could read how different The Dynamics were between Betsy+ Fantomexs and Monets hookups.

And you're just shifting the goal posts since you said no other X-Man had been on a team with two people they'd had sex with.

How many issues were the 3 of them on the same team?

(Note: Monet was only around the last 45 issues of Generation X. The first thirty issues she was Penance.)

ehhhh I think of it like The Twins were soooooo good at being M that excluding the trances that stemmed from Claudia being in control it was as if the real Monet had been tgere

[frostedemma]

Um, I’ve read each of those characters appearances throughout the 90s. And with the exception of Shatterstar being into pop culture, (new but notable for the early aughts), that’s keeping within character for each of them.

None of these guys are supposed to be Mary Sues. All of them are flawed in some way.

Lol where did I say characters can't have flaws? The problem was the entire personalities and characterisation of Monet, Terry and Rictor revolved around them being rude and mean and they never evolved past it during the entire run of X-factor. We'd get glimpses of them opening up and addressing their issues but it would never get any follow up and by the next issue they were back to being crass to everyone with a pulse. Seriously Terry was borderline, if not outright, bully (albeit annoying) a 12 years old. Asking for character growth and for them to be full rounded is hardly falling into mary sue territory...

[frostedemma]

How many issues were the 3 of them on the same team?

Betsy, Angel, Fantomex and Cluster were all in the same team during the same run while Betsy had a relationship and/or had her romantic interests explored with the 3 of them...

I read Monet in Generation X showing up with her trucks and trucks and trucks worth of clothes and stuff and her frosty dismissive remarks towards the others (like Jubilee) and very much got the idea that she was 'classist.' I don't think that's a bad thing. It made her interesting, and one of the standouts, for me.

Bro classism is very much a bad thing... It's class discrimination and prejudice against or in favor of people belonging to a particular social class. Monet owning loads of clothes and bringing them all with her to school doesn't mean or imply she's classist, just that she owns loads of stuff and needs Marie Kondo to help her declutter.

Monet was the new student who came from a completely different country with a different language and culture and on the first day of school Jubilee starts insulting her out of nowhere while Paige is laughing along on the sideline... If anyone is prissy it's them not Monet. Monet not being a doormat and replying with quips of her own doesn't make her classist, it just means she doesn't take ****.

[Thievery]

He says their love was torturous. It's ambiguous if they actually hooked up, but the way Monet acted at times, it seemed they may have been sleeping together casually until feelings developed on both ends. Again, I only say that given how "overt" Monet could be at certain time.

But Bunn has denounced the run as filler and point-blank admitted that Creed x Monet ended up being more popular than he thought, saying he didn't think fans would be into a hinted romance with them but he still gets comments & questions about it.

But either way, we can cross that ship off her bucket list. Canonly, at this point, her last ship was Darwin (ugh lol)

Bunn really denounced his own run? I had heard that one of Bunn's comics was considered to be filler by Marvel until Hickman could take over, but I had thought that one was X-Men Blue.

It's to bad that Bunn didn't care for his own Uncanny X-Men run. I really enjoyed reading that comic. I Thought that he did great work with his entire cast. And I really liked his Monet stories. Especially with the Morlocks and Sabretooth. Well, at least I liked it if no one else did, and everyone here knows my opinion is the only one that matters on this forum

[Agent Z]

Zuuuuh! I love sunbathing but it was a response to the whitewashing Of Monet and instead of just correcting the mistake they made her darker as a result of the Tanning and not just her natural skin tone

It was never stated she was darker as a result of sunbathing. They just started drawing her as closer to her normal skin tone after a while. Before this scene she was drawn as darker.

"Monet's skin tone, and what it should be, set off a flurry of researching into her history. And boy, it was confusing and rife with contradictions. Bottom line, although Monet has very dark skin, we're not entirely sure she's African-anything. Nevertheless, we're likely darkening her skin a bit."

Sooo arrogant obtuse stubborn etc

How is this arrogant or obtuse? They admitted the did their research and said they went back to making her skin tone darker.

Uhhh Zut? In every single romantic tryst we've seen this gorgeous young 'confident' Lady have zero to miniscule say in the direction they would go or even if they'd continue. I meeean this chick is on the cover of Vanity Fair yet Madrox shot the club up Darwin gave her a pity lay and Sabretooth...ugh. Helen Keller could read how different The Dynamics were between Betsy+ Fantomexs and Monets hookups.

Again, this is a ludicrous standard to judge how much agency a character has in a relationship. Monet slept with Jamie because she wanted to, dated and then dumped Guido because she wanted to and initiated sex with Darwin because she wanted while he never had the guts to even ask her out. By your logic, no woman who is asked out on a date has any agency in this relationship. Who's being obtuse here?

Look, you don't like the pairings Monet was involved in when it comes to X-Factor. That's your choice. You don't have to make stuff up or imply she has no control over who she dated or slept with.

[BroHomo]

Bunn really denounced his own run? I had heard that one of Bunn's comics was considered to be filler by Marvel until Hickman could take over, but I had thought that one was X-Men Blue.

It's to bad that Bunn didn't care for his own Uncanny X-Men run. I really enjoyed reading that comic. I Thought that he did great work with his entire cast. And I really liked his Monet stories. Especially with the Morlocks and Sabretooth. Well, at least I liked it if no one else did, and every one here knows my opinion is the only one that matters on this forum

Dude Im reading his run now and....Idk whats worse the Art(my eyes) Or the weird rando roster. If this is a person's intro to Monet or any of these chars then....
Explains a bunch

[Agent Z]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to hard disagree with that last claim. Rictor was reduced to being rude and extremely bitter from losing his powers (which is understandable) but never evolved passed that even after coming out and getting his powers back, Rahne was a homophobic evangelical who tried to trap Rictor because "gays to hell". Terry was written with the same rudeness and arrogance as Monet but with an irish accent and substance abuse problem. Longstar and Shatterstar had interchangeable personalities with the only difference being Star was a pop culture fanatic and loved to duel.

And to Jubilee Monet was arrogant but of course Jubs pov was not unbiased and she held a grudge against Monet for the longest time.

Rahne was homophobic for a handful of issues and admitted she was wrong. Rictor is bitter at times but as said in his session with Samson, he has good days and bad days, same as anyone else going through bad stuff. Terry wasn't arrogant and her "rudeness" was more often a response to Monet being an ass to her and Terry responding in kind. Shatterstar also showed that he struggled with adjusting to being allowed to express emotions after being treated as a living weapon all his life. And Monet did show there was more to her from time to time. I just don't think these characters are as one-dimensional as you're saying.

[BroHomo]

It was never stated she was darker as a result of sunbathing. They just started drawing her as closer to her normal skin tone after a while. Before this scene she was drawn as darker

Err thsts what happens when you tan right? You get darker. Soooo their response and the "research" they did was because fans were writing in criticising Monet being whitewashed or praising their depiction?

How is this arrogant or obtuse? They admitted the did their research and said they went back to making her skin tone

I mean Did they? How much research you think they put it in when afterwards they still couldn't figure out if the Black character I'd Black

Again, this is a ludicrous standard to judge how much agency a character has in a relationship. Monet slept with Jamie because she wanted to, dated and then dumped Guido because she wanted to and initiated sex with Darwin because she wanted while he never had the guts to even ask her out. By your logic, no woman who is asked out on a date has any agency in this relationship. Who's being obtuse here?

If that's your take away from my posts that's on you. But that's not at all what I'm tryna say

Look, you don't like the pairings Monet was involved in when it comes to X-Factor. That's your choice. You don't have to make stuff up or imply she has no control over who she dated or slept with.

All her pairings after Synch have been absolute garbage. What did I make up? It is what it Is. :/