Monet St. Croix / Penance Appreciation 2020

[frostedemma]

Before that. There were hints here and there that there was something going on with the Saint Croixes. Mostly on Gen-X#24. The insinuation was that the family had made a deal with something, I think. Plus M being trained in secret by Gateway... Penance having memories of a war-torn country, Emplate calling her Yvette, the details of how exactly M`s mom died... To me personally, at the time, the Hama retcon felt cheap. Like there was a bigger, better story that went untold.

Again those are small threads that Lobdell had over 20 issues to develop but choose not too and then left marvel and said btw Monet was never real while on the way out living the writers after him to try to make a coherent story with all these mix matched jigsaw puzzle pieces. Hamas is no Claremont but give him credit where its due, he didn't completely change the storyline: emplate still killed their mother although it was an accident when his mutant powers first manifested and his guilt over it turned him away from the family and into a dark path, thus giving him an in depth backstory, Monet is still called Yvette (probably the ugliest and outdated french name but that's by the by) but now it's her second name and the twins were still posing as Monet during that time.

Part of the criticism about the Maddie Pryor storyline is that she was a real character with established relationships with her teammates, with a husband and a child and in the space of one issue all established history got dropped like it never happened or matters. So personally I'm glad we didn't get a repeat of that.

[frostedemma]

Which IMO was worse. That was never explained and had zero characterization. Penance at that point was a joke and should have been taken out of the picture when the twins were freed from that prison

Right? It was so convoluted and confusing that they dropped it after one issue. It would of made more sense if the twins didn't have to go in the penance form to free Monet but rather have Emma psionically help the twins break the spell and penance becoming a persona Monet struggled with because of trauma and ptsd.

[Leirus]

Again those are small threads that Lobdell had over 20 issues to develop but choose not too and then left marvel and said btw Monet was never real while on the way out living the writers after him to try to make a coherent story with all these mix matched jigsaw puzzle pieces. Hamas is no Claremont but give him credit where its due, he didn't completely change the storyline: emplate still killed their mother although it was an accident when his mutant powers first manifested and his guilt over it turned him away from the family and into a dark path, thus giving him an in depth backstory, Monet is still called Yvette (probably the ugliest and outdated french name but that's by the by) but now it's her second name and the twins were still posing as Monet during that time.

Part of the criticism about the Maddie Pryor storyline is that she was a real character with established relationships with her teammates, with a husband and a child and in the space of one issue all established history got dropped like it never happened or matters. So personally I'm glad we didn't get a repeat of that.

I think we can all agree that the end product, which is a real Monet who is not two childs together, was what everyone wanted. It is just the details. In those panels it is implied that the mother sacrificed herself, and that Emplate was paying some sort of debt the family had. It made him a more rounded character, I think. By the way, those panels stablish another power Monet has: she can detect other mutants. She just finds it distasteful.

[frostedemma]

I think we can all agree that the end product, which is a real Monet who is not two childs together, was what everyone wanted. It is just the details. In those panels it is implied that the mother sacrificed herself, and that Emplate was paying some sort of debt the family had. It made him a more rounded character, I think. By the way, those panels stablish another power Monet has: she can detect other mutants. She just finds it distasteful.

I feel like when family debts and sacrifice start being added to story it makes it even more complicated when it already isn't the easiest storyline to digest. Marius accidentally killing his mother when his powers first manifested give a tragic backstory and then him choosing dark magic and becoming emplate and everything that ensues establishes how he in the end he still choose evil. Plus it raises the ongoing question: if mutants were less hated and feared and had access to proper resources and weren't socially ostracised as soon as their powers appeared, would mutants like Marius still end up villainous?

But in the end, to each their own. The St Croix storyline ended up a bit of a headache and Monet needs a retcon like The life of captain marvel mini to sort it out.

[Leirus]

I feel like when family debts and sacrifice start being added to story it makes it even more complicated when it already isn't the easiest storyline to digest. Marius accidentally killing his mother when his powers first manifested give a tragic backstory and then him choosing dark magic and becoming emplate and everything that ensues establishes how he in the end he still choose evil. Plus it raises the ongoing question: if mutants were less hated and feared and had access to proper resources and weren't socially ostracised as soon as their powers appeared, would mutants like Marius still end up villainous?

The problem is that those things had already been set, and when they were reversed it felt a bit jarring. When mysteries that had been hinted over fourty issues got resolved in just two... Well, it is water under the bridge now, anyway. I just understand people who liked Penance as character. It was a fantastic design under Bachalo, after all.

[MYCMTSC]

Funny bc I dont think Ive read a single story where she felt OP. People act like she's a Phoenix level threat or can oneshot her foes like Magik

I wish they'd just use 'mutant perfection' as the theme for her powers. It's the only thing that makes her powers make sense together. They lack cohesion without some kind of in-story reason.

Agreed. X-Factor Monet was terrible, imo. PAD succeeding in making me hate her after the return to original numbering.

The 2nd volume, she was tolerable with some potential. Then she just became the personification of PMS.

That whole book was trash by then. I think I only enjoyed Rictor/Shatterstar at that point.

[BroHomo]

I genuinely don't understand how people are hung up about penance when she was never an actual character. Yes lobdell original draft was for penance to be her own character but it got dropped (the way manny drafts and original plans don't make it to the final cut)

How was she not a character? Her first appearance was epic (marking first time Gateway spoke) The following issues with the team tryna subdue her was memorable and in issue 25 she saved the day from Black Tom.

Monet along with Jubilee were the heart and glue that held generation x together, without Monet (and Jubs) the book literally carry out for 75 issue if she stopped existing at #36. There's a reason why the issues without Monet are practically all fillers.

Whoa Chamber and Skin roadtrip with Howard the Duck issues were awesome...it's not like All Monet's story's were hits(Vampire Slayer)

The real tragedy of gen x was blink dying at the end of the phalanx covenant. I know it's supposed to be a callback to giant sized x-men with her death carrying more emotions than Thunderbird gratuitous death did, but I still wish she got to stuck around.

I meeeean how many issues featured Blink? She didn't even make it to the first issue

The insinuation was that the family had made a deal with something, I think. Plus M being trained in secret by Gateway... Penance having memories of a war-torn country, Emplate calling her Yvette, the details of how exactly M`s mom died... To me personally, at the time, the Hama retcon felt cheap. Like there was a bigger, better story that went untold.

Duuuuuuude me to I remember being 11 or 12 and after reading that issue was extremely confident I coulda made up something a helluva lot better

Which IMO was worse. That was never explained and had zero characterization. Penance at that point was a joke and should have been taken out of the picture when the twins were freed from that prison

How did it make less sense the the real M was trapped in the body of a Deaf War refugee mutant than some autonomous body that Emplate magically conjured..with an X-Gene. To suck the marrow of his sister... thinking about it Why choose a form that is invulnerable with razor sharp claws??

It makes even less sense now that the Penance form has been revealed as sort of another ability the St. Croixes have.

Rigjt? Like why didn't Mobet carve a message into a tree or something?

The problem is that those things had already been set, and when they were reversed it felt a bit jarring. When mysteries that had been hinted over fourty issues got resolved in just two... It was a fantastic design under Bachalo, after all.

Yas! I loved her design...such a body horrific bad assery I think she was the first X-Woman to not look human The M/Penace is an obvious misstep that makes me a lil less confident in Hickman's handling of the character

I wish they'd just use 'mutant perfection' as the theme for her powers. It's the only thing that makes her powers make sense together. They lack cohesion without some kind of in-story reason.

I mean what's cohesive about Superman's Powers (basically Ms)? Or Wolverines? Wolverines don't even have retractable claws

[Havok83]

How was she not a character? Her first appearance was epic (marking first time Gateway spoke) The following issues with the team tryna subdue her was memorable and in issue 25 she saved the day from Black Tom.

that wasnt the first time he spoke. He did so in Claremont's run

How did it make less sense the the real M was trapped in the body of a Deaf War refugee mutant than some autonomous body that Emplate magically conjured..with an X-Gene. To suck the marrow of his sister... thinking about it Why choose a form that is invulnerable with razor sharp claws??

There was no deaf war refugee and Penance's form wasnt invulnerable to Emplate. Penance runnign around as an empty shell made no sense bc there was never an explanation or story. It was just a status quo which Faerber did absolutely nothing to develop or go anywhere with

[frostedemma]

How was she not a character? Her first appearance was epic (marking first time Gateway spoke) The following issues with the team tryna subdue her was memorable and in issue 25 she saved the day from Black Tom.

Yeah and that was actually Monet. Given Monet personality and protectiveness over those she cares about it's perfectly in character for her to have caused absolute havoc when she first arrived and for her to defend her sisters and friends from Black Tom.

Whoa Chamber and Skin roadtrip with Howard the Duck issues were awesome...it's not like All Monet's story's were hits(Vampire Slayer)

Fillers are inherently bad, it just means their not part of the overall plot and serve as a break. I think you're the first person I've ever encountered who didn't love Monet the vampire slayer issue because people always reference it when talking about Monet awesomeness and why she needs a solo.

I meeeean how many issues featured Blink? She didn't even make it to the first issue

The reason they're all alive was because Blink scarified herself in order to save the team and earth, In the four issues she was in, Nicieza wrote her in a compelling way and she had a nice rapport with the other members.

How did it make less sense the the real M was trapped in the body of a Deaf War refugee mutant than some autonomous body that Emplate magically conjured..with an X-Gene. To suck the marrow of his sister... thinking about it Why choose a form that is invulnerable with razor sharp claws??

There was no deaf war refuge. That was Lobdell idea but it never saw the light of day.

RCO014_1465468395.jpg

Yas! I loved her design...such a body horrific bad assery I think she was the first X-Woman to not look human The M/Penace is an obvious misstep that makes me a lil less confident in Hickman's handling of the character
I mean what's cohesive about Superman's Powers (basically Ms)? Or Wolverines? Wolverines don't even have retractable claws

Superpowers are the least cohesive part of comics I don't see why we're pretending otherwise.

Also tbh I like Monet being able to go into penance form. Before Monet's penance form was debilitating and traumatic for her, but now she’s able to speak in it as well as shift to her razor sharp form whenever, showing us that she healed from her trauma and the abuse she suffered doesn’t set her back anymore. Plus given how many time she spent stuck as penance it make sense that she eventually developed the ability to change into that form on her own. It could also be something she added to her resurrection protocol again as a sign of her overcoming her childhood trauma. M keeping her penance form conveys that her trauma is always going to be a part of her bc that’s how trauma works, it changes you. But she triumphed over it, and she’s now able to deal and manage it. Monet is reclaiming her body to show she’s the one in control when before she was rendered powerless as penance.

[frostedemma]

There was no deaf war refugee and Penance's form wasnt invulnerable to Emplate. Penance runnign around as an empty shell made no sense bc there was never an explanation or story. It was just a status quo which Faerber did absolutely nothing to develop or go anywhere with

I always thought emplate got his own invulnerability and spikes from syphoning penance!Monet for so long and as her "maker" he'd always be able to overpower her.

[Havok83]

I always thought emplate got his own invulnerability and spikes from syphoning penance!Monet for so long and as her "maker" he'd always be able to overpower her.

I dont know if it was ever explicit but I think that was the implication bc we knew he was able to take on attributes of the mutant he siphoned and in that scene where he changes her, he didnt ahve the spikes or hard skin. It makes sense that after feeding on her continuously for months, that his appearance would change permanently

[frostedemma]

I dont know if it was ever explicit but I think that was the implication bc we knew he was able to take on attributes of the mutant he siphoned and in that scene where he changes her, he didnt ahve the spikes or hard skin. It makes sense that after feeding on her continuously for months, that his appearance would change permanently

Ok because that's what I always thought, that it was heavily implied he got diamond hard and spikey from feeding on her.

[Leirus]

Ok because that's what I always thought, that it was heavily implied he got diamond hard and spikey from feeding on her.

I think that was outright stated? After the attack in the airport M analyzed Emplate and came out with that theory. Of course she knew it for sure because he is her brother, but that was not known yet. I think it was the same issue where Emma read Penance and saw the war scenes. I do not like the penance form for M. I hate when they use it on covers. But I understand that is a matter of taste.

[Havok83]

I think that was outright stated? After the attack in the airport M analyzed Emplate and came out with that theory. Of course she knew it for sure because he is her brother, but that was not known yet. I think it was the same issue where Emma read Penance and saw the war scenes. I do not like the penance form for M. I hate when they use it on covers. But I understand that is a matter of taste.

You are right. Its in the second issue. She tells Banshee and Emma about her theory

[frostedemma]

Given how Jordan d. White said that Hickman and Tini are the two X-writers who very much want to use her I've made a small list of the issues she's definitely going to appear in and the ones I suspect she'll be in:

She's definitely going to be in xos: statis and xos: destruction given how she was in creation and Saturnyne is set up as her foil there and also heavy hints at Monet playing the long game along with S.
I think she'll might appear in either x-men #13,14 most likely #15 and excalibur #15.