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  1. #1081
    Spectacular Member Billy Maximoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Just read Empyre #6 and I won't spoil anything. All I'm saying is that it's an Avengers event with FF in glorified supporting roles. Take the FF out and nothing changes.
    It's just irritating that it was touted as this big crossover event between the two teams, but it really isn't. It's an Avengers event, call a spade a spade.
    I totally agree, the FF were just there to look bad so the Avengers could shine. Tony had to make Reed a suit, Carol had to save Johnny and She Hulk showed how strong she is by beating Ben and Sue.

  2. #1082
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Maximoff View Post
    I totally agree, the FF were just there to look bad so the Avengers could shine. Tony had to make Reed a suit, Carol had to save Johnny and She Hulk showed how strong she is by beating Ben and Sue.
    Yeah the event was focused on the Avengers much more than the FF. I should have seen it coming when all the recommended reading were old Avengers books with only one FF one, and most of the promo art was on the Avengers...

    I'm hoping that next year is just a big Fantastic Four event to celebrate their 60th.
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  3. #1083
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    How much longer does everyone think Slott will be on the book?

    I'm hoping only a year longer, but realistically maybe 2. Any more than that is ridiculous and he definitely should not be on it anywhere near as long as he was on Spider-Man.
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  4. #1084
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    I've just come to the conclusion F4 don't work well in crossovers. X Vs F4 was a fail, and apparently this one wasn't pleasing to fans either, even past work such as civil war had me hating Reed, so maybe their just better off as a solo brand.

  5. #1085
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I've just come to the conclusion F4 don't work well in crossovers. X Vs F4 was a fail, and apparently this one wasn't pleasing to fans either, even past work such as civil war had me hating Reed, so maybe their just better off as a solo brand.
    I just think Marvel has no clue what to do with them tbh.

    They've done well in crossovers before, like the original X-Men and Fantastic Four crossover is a classic. But current Marvel doesn't know what to do with them, they're in this weird place. I think part of it is that they have no strong voice. Their personalities have been reduced into a palatable amalgamation of their traits. Like Ben has lost that gruff edge that sometimes threw him into bouts of anger, Johnny has barely grown, and Sue barely had a personality to begin with.
    All of that has made them feel like supporting characters and this shows even more when they are with other teams that get to have more complex characterizations.
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  6. #1086
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    How much longer does everyone think Slott will be on the book?

    I'm hoping only a year longer, but realistically maybe 2. Any more than that is ridiculous and he definitely should not be on it anywhere near as long as he was on Spider-Man.
    PLEASE! Another year is too, too long.



    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I've just come to the conclusion F4 don't work well in crossovers. X Vs F4 was a fail, and apparently this one wasn't pleasing to fans either, even past work such as civil war had me hating Reed, so maybe their just better off as a solo brand.
    Loved Zdarsky's X-men vs Fantastic Four! That wasn't a fail at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I just think Marvel has no clue what to do with them tbh.
    I disagree. Look at Hickman's run. Marvel just needs to find the right creator.
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  7. #1087
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post

    I disagree. Look at Hickman's run. Marvel just needs to find the right creator.
    They put him on the book 10 years ago. Things have changed since Hickman was on the FF, and that doesn't change their decisions outside of choosing which creators to put on the book. Like how they've handled the FF related books outside of the main one.
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  8. #1088

  9. #1089
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    I guess I was just asking the comic gods to gut me, wasn't I?
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  10. #1090
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    They put him on the book 10 years ago. Things have changed since Hickman was on the FF, and that doesn't change their decisions outside of choosing which creators to put on the book. Like how they've handled the FF related books outside of the main one.
    What FF related books? For most of it's existence, FF hasn't had anything but the one book, and it was a dependably solid to great read. That's all I'm asking for. A readable, solid FF book.

    Other than FF being sidelined by Ike for entirely petty reasons, I don't know what's dramatically changed in the last 10 years at Marvel. There's nothing wrong that can't be fixed with a good creator with a vision.
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  11. #1091
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I like Zdarsky and Dodson but XMvsF4 felt rushed in the art and the story. Both teams are too eager to cut each other's throat. Only Doom, Kitty, Franklin and Valeria came out of that in one piece.
    "Cable was right!"

  12. #1092
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    "Hello darkness, my old friend"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    What FF related books? For most of it's existence, FF hasn't had anything but the one book, and it was a dependably solid to great read. That's all I'm asking for. A readable, solid FF book.

    Other than FF being sidelined by Ike for entirely petty reasons, I don't know what's dramatically changed in the last 10 years at Marvel. There's nothing wrong that can't be fixed with a good creator with a vision.
    They completely botched Future Foundation and the Invisible Woman book was just thrown out there. Dooms book was the only one to survive and that's mostly on his name alone.

    Putting the right creative team on a book goes without saying, but everything outside of that matters too. How they market the book, what restrictions they place on the team etc.
    Empyre and 4X felt very halfhearted and not thought out properly in terms of the FF's involvement in them. They seem to be starting to push the team but their usual plan of throwing anything at the wall and seeing what sticks is not the best approach.
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  13. #1093
    Spectacular Member Billy Maximoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I've just come to the conclusion F4 don't work well in crossovers. X Vs F4 was a fail, and apparently this one wasn't pleasing to fans either, even past work such as civil war had me hating Reed, so maybe their just better off as a solo brand.
    I have to disagree, the F4 worked very well in 80% of their crossovers before their return in 2018, Just look at how well Hickman wrote Reed and Sue during the build-up to 2015's Secret Wars, Current writers just don't give them anything noteworthy to do in crossovers other than to look bad, I'm pretty sure anyone will be annoyed if their favourite characters keep getting reduced to useless plot devices to make other characters look good, like Reed is the smartest person on earth, so let him put his brain to use and don't keep making the rest of the team useless until someone else comes to save the day.

    X Vs F4 was Imo pretty solid until the end, I'm really glad Billy and Teddy finally got some spotlight after being MIA for so long, but other than that Empyre was just an opportunity for the Avengers to shine, Literally each Avenger on the current roster had great moments throughout the event.
    Last edited by Billy Maximoff; 09-02-2020 at 12:29 PM.

  14. #1094
    Spectacular Member Billy Maximoff's Avatar
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    Maybe the F4 will get treated better once they're in the MCU.

  15. #1095
    Incredible Member Marvel Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Maximoff View Post
    Maybe the F4 will get treated better once they're in the MCU.
    Perhaps this is what they are waiting for? Maybe they do not want to push the FF into too much comic prominence until a new FF film is ready to go?

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