The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2020

[Agent Z]

gotta say, I'm a bit giddy about that revelation. I absolutely love it. I've been pushing for something just like that for years. Franklin is and always should have been 'Cosmic based' Nothing about him OR his power level was ever 'the next evolution step of mankind'...

As opposed to what? Mutants with power equal to or greater than Franklin already exist.

[Triniking1234]

I mean this retcon was outta nowhere just like his DoFP appearance and the later Byrne one.

So is my Rachel x Franklin ship dead?

[Phoenixx9]

How did he not feel like a mutant? Not every mutant is living in the sewers or in the X-men. Justice and Firestar, for example. He's also a kid who lives with parents who weaponised their fame and money to protect themselves from persecution because they're not human. Which Xavier did himself with the X-mansion phase.

To me he did not.

In addition, there was little to no mention of Franklin being a mutant let alone about his powers over many years, decades really, in the FF book.

I know all about all of the various mutants in the MU, lilke Firestar, Justice and the Morlocks (based of of H. G. Wells novel). I do not need a MU history lesson.

[Chris0013]

To me he did not.

In addition, there was little to no mention of Franklin being a mutant let alone about his powers over many years, decades really, in the FF book.

I know all about all of the various mutants in the MU, lilke Firestar, Justice and the Morlocks (based of of H. G. Wells novel). I do not need a MU history lesson.

Because outside the X-books..."mutant' does not always define a mutants identity.

[Phoenixx9]

Because outside the X-books..."mutant' does not always define a mutants identity.

Stay in your own lane. I know how to drive.

[Ravin' Ray]

In addition, there was little to no mention of Franklin being a mutant let alone about his powers over many years, decades really, in the FF book.

One stood out for me: when Psycho-Man brainwashed Sue into Malice, anti-mutant crowds rallied in front of Avengers Mansion where the FF lived at the time, because Reed said the world realized Franklin was a mutant.

Then of course, Onslaught posing as Xavier tried to convince Reed and Sue to let him take Franklin into his Gifted School near the end of Volume 1 of FF (1961).

[CaptCleghorn]

Throughout the eighties, Franklin as a mutant was pretty much canon. There was this, Days of Future Past, and even fans who got all over Shooter's handling of Johnny's mutant comments in the original Secret Wars series because of his nephew.

[CaptCleghorn]

Doesn’t anyone else think the Xavier thing is an obvious trick??

That would be something I've thought of as well.

How did he not feel like a mutant? Not every mutant is living in the sewers or in the X-men. Justice and Firestar, for example. He's also a kid who lives with parents who weaponised their fame and money to protect themselves from persecution because they're not human. Which Xavier did himself with the X-mansion phase.

Franklin grew up with a dad who could stretch, a mom who turned invisible and made force fields. His uncles turned into fire and became a roclk creature. Knowing you have powers, but feeling like a mutant seem like two different things for someone who has NEVER lived outside this comic book superhero world.

[Oberon]

In the earliest days of Franklin's comic life and portrayals there is not much about being a mutant but obviously very OP due to the cosmic radiation.

Evebntualy, somewhere in the late '70s or just after, 'mutant' does seem to stick more to him.

but can't it be both?

First, there are seemingly 'sub' groups of mutants, as their are Inhumans.

While there are some obvious Marvel 'sub' groups or possible: Lorna Dane or others who had their gene 'activated' because it did not on their own. Likely something would have eventually, but there exists that possible sub group.
Likewise I remember one, two or maybe a few stories where certain folks/characters who had mostly ESP or maybe some PK, are just treated as ... ESP or PK -"er's". They have to be mutant, but for the particular story, they are not said to be or considered.
One of these is either a Marvel Team up or '70s era where a panel of judges have to make a judgement about a villain, I think, who used mental powers for crime. The epilog shows the justices (maybe 6 of them) all talking about the case 'mentally' maybe even moving coffee or tea service'. I doubt if anyone might remember that story.

But here is what I really mean. Up until (less various 'retcons') franklin was the first child born to parents who were bombarded with extra-terrestial radiations or substances.

In most/all other earthly mutations born, the catalyst is other earth-based radiations. Not cosmic rays.

So tha tmostly would mean, mutant, but sorta another type or grade.

[Thundershot]

Upon rereading... It’s possible that Xavier is acting on Reed and Sue’s wishes. It’s like chasing away a wild animal you cared for because it’s best for the animal. That would also explain why Xavier has been monitoring Franklin’s thoughts. Because otherwise, it’s really creepy and makes Xavier more of a dick than he’s already been lately.

[phantom1592]

How did he not feel like a mutant? Not every mutant is living in the sewers or in the X-men. Justice and Firestar, for example. He's also a kid who lives with parents who weaponised their fame and money to protect themselves from persecution because they're not human. Which Xavier did himself with the X-mansion phase.

Honestly, the mutant allegory was always pretty dumb. It was 'ok' when it was just a handwave to skip writing an actual origin and just say 'they were born with powers'... but the more they've tried to define and push everyone into a small box has gotten ridiculous. Proclaiming themselves 'homo-superior', and claiming anyone from half-human/half-atlantean.... to a dude with flippers... to a guy who can remake a multiverse are all 'the next step of evolution' is just... ughhh... and somehow are their own culture despite having absolutely NOTHING in common...

But really, Franklin HAS an origin. He's born from cosmic radiation. His powers did not show up at puberty... he's had them since he was a baby... His parents were never 'normal'... He just doesn't have that 'mutant' storyline going for him.

It reminds me of a time when they tried to push that ALL Marvel heroes were mutants. The gamma bomb triggered Bruce's latent mutant gene... the cosmic rays triggered the FF mutant genes... The radioactive spider-bite... the toxic waste for Daredevil... all latent mutant abilities that were triggered as opposed to giving them cancer and killing them. They've all been pretty much ignored... but somehow Franklin kept his 'mutant' status.

[U.N. Owen]

Someone needs to inform Galactus about the whole power debacle and tell him that Franklin isn't a mutant...

[CaptCleghorn]

Honestly, the mutant allegory was always pretty dumb. It was 'ok' when it was just a handwave to skip writing an actual origin and just say 'they were born with powers'... but the more they've tried to define and push everyone into a small box has gotten ridiculous. Proclaiming themselves 'homo-superior', and claiming anyone from half-human/half-atlantean.... to a dude with flippers... to a guy who can remake a multiverse are all 'the next step of evolution' is just... ughhh... and somehow are their own culture despite having absolutely NOTHING in common...

But really, Franklin HAS an origin. He's born from cosmic radiation. His powers did not show up at puberty... he's had them since he was a baby... His parents were never 'normal'... He just doesn't have that 'mutant' storyline going for him.

It reminds me of a time when they tried to push that ALL Marvel heroes were mutants. The gamma bomb triggered Bruce's latent mutant gene... the cosmic rays triggered the FF mutant genes... The radioactive spider-bite... the toxic waste for Daredevil... all latent mutant abilities that were triggered as opposed to giving them cancer and killing them. They've all been pretty much ignored... but somehow Franklin kept his 'mutant' status.

The early days of Marvel used radiation for all sorts of stuff. Hank McCoy's father worked in a nuclear plant and was exposed to radiation. Franklin Richard's parents were both exposed to powerful cosmic rays. Franklin as a mutant wasn't a crazy idea. However the comic book science of radiation affecting genetic make-up and their kids ending up with unusual abilities got more and more difficult to explain as millions of mutants started popping up world wide.

Mutants as the next step in evolution doesn't sound right to me. I think it's more of nature running variants up the flagpole and seeing which get saluted or actually survive. As much as I'd love to see actual genetic science and evolutionary theory reflected here, what fits in 2020 may be laughable in 2070, just as what passed in 1970 is laughable today. Is Franklin a Mutant? Maybe, maybe not. According to curent real life science, i don't know. According to Marvel Universe science, whatever they say goes whether we like it or not.

I like Franklin as a mutant. I don't think he needs to be one, but that tie to the rest of Marvel seems like a nice fit. I'm leaning towards hoping the page is X-dickery and Charles running a scheme of some sort. But this story is far from finished and as far as Franklin's powers are concerned they will be yo-yoing back and forth to keep an omnipotent kid able to be handled in a story.

[phantom1592]

The early days of Marvel used radiation for all sorts of stuff. Hank McCoy's father worked in a nuclear plant and was exposed to radiation. Franklin Richard's parents were both exposed to powerful cosmic rays. Franklin as a mutant wasn't a crazy idea. However the comic book science of radiation affecting genetic make-up and their kids ending up with unusual abilities got more and more difficult to explain as millions of mutants started popping up world wide.

Mutants as the next step in evolution doesn't sound right to me. I think it's more of nature running variants up the flagpole and seeing which get saluted or actually survive. As much as I'd love to see actual genetic science and evolutionary theory reflected here, what fits in 2020 may be laughable in 2070, just as what passed in 1970 is laughable today. Is Franklin a Mutant? Maybe, maybe not. According to curent real life science, i don't know. According to Marvel Universe science, whatever they say goes whether we like it or not.

I like Franklin as a mutant. I don't think he needs to be one, but that tie to the rest of Marvel seems like a nice fit. I'm leaning towards hoping the page is X-dickery and Charles running a scheme of some sort. But this story is far from finished and as far as Franklin's powers are concerned they will be yo-yoing back and forth to keep an omnipotent kid able to be handled in a story.

Yep... I remember when Charles Xavier was one of the 'first mutants' because his dad worked on atomic weapon testing... ala 'Children of the Atom'. That's when the mutants were supposed to start happening... Now they've had 'the next stage of humanity' operating for hundreds of years and going as far back as ancient egypt... it really doesn't work. It's collapsing under it's own mythology. I really think DC does it better with it's 'metagene' than marvel does with it's 'X-gene'.

[Billy Maximoff]

On another note, I know Franklin is just a comic book character but why do I feel bad for him? Lol