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  1. #901
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    Logan stabbing a skrull kid? eeps. how does Hulk and ghost rider (Ketch? Blaze?) fit into this..
    To be fair, she was shapeshifted at the time and he didn't know she was a kid allied to the FF. He thought it was an enemy.
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  2. #902
    Incredible Member Marvel Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I tend to think his stories were probably worse if they weren't changed.

    He was known to be unpopular at Marvel as I recall reading from Sean Howe's book Marvel Comics: The Untold Story. Another weird thing he did IMO was to insist on turning Quicksilver into a supervillain even after other writers had done the opposite to fix him.
    Check out Brian Cronin's columns about this. Interesting reading. I hated everything he did in his Fantastic Four run....like the Crystal / Sue catfight most of all.

    Abandoned and Forsaken: Why Quicksilver was such a crazy supervillain

    Quicksilver runs away from a second career in villainy

    Of course we got this low point from his run too. IMO his last arc was a mess with the Aron the Rogue Watcher's clone FF, the dream sequences etc.

    Iron Maiden - The catfight where Crystal fought Sue is one of my favorite FF scenes and said issue probably ranks in my top 25 all-time FF issues. I love catfights and especially love to see the blonde gal lose to a brunette or red head. I always cheered for Medusa back in the 1960's, even though Sue has been my favorite comic character for 55+ years now.

  3. #903
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I mostly liked his run. I liked the Inferno X-over. It was possibly my favorite tie in. Loved the re-examination of Johnny and Crystal (they never should have been broken up, quite frankly) especially with Alicia in the mix. Fasaud (sic) was possibly one of my favorite new villains (who, like many post Lee-Kirby villains never get used again). And Ben and Sharon's arc.

  4. #904
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I liked more of the earlier stuff, this was a bit later and yeah, it was not good.

  5. #905
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I was in my 30s when I first read this way back, it just doesn't wear as well on me. Both characters are more out of character, to me.

  6. #906
    Incredible Member Marvel Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I mostly liked his run. I liked the Inferno X-over. It was possibly my favorite tie in. Loved the re-examination of Johnny and Crystal (they never should have been broken up, quite frankly) especially with Alicia in the mix. Fasaud (sic) was possibly one of my favorite new villains (who, like many post Lee-Kirby villains never get used again). And Ben and Sharon's arc.
    Stan Lee was a genius, but I have said for decades that breaking up Johnny and Crystal was his #1 mistake., I think he only did it because he did not wish to change the title of the comic to Fantastic Five.

  7. #907
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Why would the title need changing? There were a few later times when there was more than four members. There's nine superheroes on the team right now (Reed, Sue, Johnny, Ben, Franklin, Valeria, Sky, Jo-Venn and N'Kalla) and what about Sharon Ventura's time on the team? She was a fifth member in the end, right?
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  8. #908
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    I just watched an interview with Chris Claremont and he said that him and Byrne had different ideas and plans on where to take the Uncanny X-Men during their run. So Byrne walked into Shooter’s office and said either Chris has to go or I go. Shooter said Chris is staying on as writer but you can have the FF to write and draw. Basically, he could do whatever he wanted, within reason. Byrne agreed and the rest is history.

    I find these stories fascinating. It gives you perspective on how creators see things and how they end up on one book or the other. Just think, if John had not given Shooter that ultimatum we wouldn’t have one of the greatest FF runs of all time.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

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  9. #909
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Long time reader, I remember this as/when it happened. There was some thing that happened or created their riff, they'd been pretty pleasant with each other before. I believe I know a secret about CC that may be a factor - no it's not sexuality or like that. But at any rate, their falling out with each other was somewhat epic.

  10. #910
    Incredible Member Marvel Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Why would the title need changing? There were a few later times when there was more than four members. There's nine superheroes on the team right now (Reed, Sue, Johnny, Ben, Franklin, Valeria, Sky, Jo-Venn and N'Kalla) and what about Sharon Ventura's time on the team? She was a fifth member in the end, right?
    True, Stan would not have had to change the title, but he might have felt that there would have been pressure for him to do so from big Crystal fans.

  11. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Long time reader, I remember this as/when it happened. There was some thing that happened or created their riff, they'd been pretty pleasant with each other before. I believe I know a secret about CC that may be a factor - no it's not sexuality or like that. But at any rate, their falling out with each other was somewhat epic.
    Can you explain here or PM the secret?

  12. #912
    Incredible Member Marvel Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Can you explain here or PM the secret?
    Most interesting, indeed! I hope we get a response!

  13. #913
    Spectacular Member markhyperion's Avatar
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    So I hinted at it in another FF thread, but has anyone read new Empyre issue. Tony is making a FF iron man suit.

  14. #914
    Spectacular Member Sataniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Long time reader, I remember this as/when it happened. There was some thing that happened or created their riff, they'd been pretty pleasant with each other before. I believe I know a secret about CC that may be a factor - no it's not sexuality or like that. But at any rate, their falling out with each other was somewhat epic.
    I would assume the main factor would be Byrne being Byrne.

  15. #915
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wondered about that armor and whether or not it gets picked up in the Iron Man relaunch done by Christopher Cantwell.

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