The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2020

[Digifiend]

FF on HBO Max instead of Disney+? Could've sworn HBO's comics stuff was DC.
https://comicbook.com/movies/news/fa...ng-to-hbo-max/

[Iron Maiden]

FF on HBO Max instead of Disney+? Could've sworn HBO's comics stuff was DC.
https://comicbook.com/movies/news/fa...ng-to-hbo-max/

I have the extended version on DVD...nothing really significant there from what I recall. IIRC there is a scene with Victor and Johnny in a limo full of women, Ben and Alicia at her studio. Don't remember much more than that.

[CaptCleghorn]

I don't know if Marvel is going to put out a line-wide commemoration for Joe Sinnott's passing, but FF is certainly a fitting place for such a page. The FF wouldn't be the FF without Joltin' Joe.

[Digifiend]

If they do that it needs to appear in Amazing Spider-Man too, he worked on the newspaper strip right up until it was axed.

[Iron Maiden]

I don't know if Marvel is going to put out a line-wide commemoration for Joe Sinnott's passing, but FF is certainly a fitting place for such a page. The FF wouldn't be the FF without Joltin' Joe.

I posted some of Joe's own pencils on the other thread. Maybe they should use some of that work for variant covers

[CaptCleghorn]

I posted some of Joe's own pencils on the other thread. Maybe they should use some of that work for variant covers

I'd certainly spring for a Sinnott variant FF cover, even if priced at a premium. Let's hope no one at my LCS knows who I am here.

[Shalla Bal]

I posted some of Joe's own pencils on the other thread. Maybe they should use some of that work for variant covers

...

Very nice. I agree some of those would make great variant covers.

Btw the Namor figure was based on a Big John Buscema sketch that appears in JB's How to Draw Comics The Marvel Way, page 58. Here's a scan of that page from my copy of the book.

[U.N. Owen]

Do you know what the Fantastic Four need? They need a reinvigorated rogues gallery. We seriously cannot keep cycling through Doom, cosmic entity, alien, and Earth threat. It's gotten old since no writer has done anything except play this completely straight to the point that I would rather read old stories.

Just look at the recent main villains of this run alone.

There's Griever who added nothing to the story except to be a brute powerful enough to fight Franklin and Owen, killing the latter and making the former spiral into a whiny waste of ink. Look, gods of destruction and death tend to be flat characters by nature. I rarely remember those who aren't flat characters. You can still add interesting world building. Knull is a flat character, but I am at least invested in the history and lore of the symbiotes.

Then we get Doom and Galactus. I'm not even sure if Galactus said anything. This is made even more insulting with Galactus and his appearance in Dr. Strange where Galactus began punching out and eating mystical forces. Doom is reduced to his old cliche of playing with power he cannot possibly control.

Puppet Master was played straight with the Hulk vs. Thing. The only interesting thing here is when Hulk broke his hands.

Overseer is the worst villain Slott has ever conceived because of how poorly executed he was and was beaten in My Little Pony Friendship is magic fashion.

Can we at least get an eivl politician like Palpatine in the Prequels? Or a toxic friend for the kids? Or a Frightful Four made by alternate versions of the FF? Maybe a parody of the Fant4stic movie? Let's do something that at least breaks this rut.

[phantom1592]

Do you know what the Fantastic Four need? They need a reinvigorated rogues gallery. We seriously cannot keep cycling through Doom, cosmic entity, alien, and Earth threat. It's gotten old since no writer has done anything except play this completely straight to the point that I would rather read old stories.

It's interesting the way everyone always considers their core mission statement to be about exploring and discoveries... I honestly have a hard time remembering ANYTHING worthwhile that ever came from their exploring. I know they did it... but Galactus came to earth. Silver surfer was the same. Doom is a known earth villain out for revenge... Thing vs. Yancy st. Frightful Four are earth based. All my favorite stories focus on them being a family more than a team.... Being the premier earth-based super heroes... even more so than the avengers. When the president or nasa see something they can't explain... it's the fantatstic four they call first.

Going out and discovering new things and places?? They never crack the top 10 for me. It may be a 'different' route to take them that would be solely 'theirs'... but i don't think it would be good reading. FF are Super heroes. They're celebrities... they aren't Star Trek.

[Oberon]

Your thoughts and the previous are my thoughts too. Of course there were always big villians and should be again. Yes, rogue's gallery.

One of my feelings is that many of the new ones are easily forgotten, rarely heard of again: Darkoth, Oculus, from two separated runs. Fausaad (sic?) I think Stan and Jack made great characters, but so did many of the writers and artists since. Use some of them again, please.

[U.N. Owen]

It's interesting the way everyone always considers their core mission statement to be about exploring and discoveries... I honestly have a hard time remembering ANYTHING worthwhile that ever came from their exploring.

The FF did pioneer a ton of concepts, but they were all expanded upon by later writers:

Black Panther debuted in Fantastic Four #52.
The Kree and Skrulls debuted in Fantastic Four #65 and Fantastic Four #2 respectively.
The Negative Zone debuted in Fantastic Four #51.
The Inhumans debuted in Fantastic Four #45.
Galactus and the Silver Surfer debuted in Fantastic Four #48.
The unstable molecules debuted in Fantastic Four #6

If you see the problem here, it's that other writers essentially have taken what the FF did and often expanded upon them better than what the original book does.

[K7P5V]

Very nice. I agree some of those would make great variant covers.

Btw the Namor figure was based on a Big John Buscema sketch that appears in JB's How to Draw Comics The Marvel Way, page 58. Here's a scan of that page from my copy of the book.

IMHO, the finished product is almost as good:





An unsung legend in the business, the artwork of John Buscema is truly dynamic:

[Crimz]

On reinvigorating the Fantastic Four, I think the lack of any new and interesting rogues is definitely a big part of it. Another is the characters themselves. They aren't put in situations to explore who they are or to show different sides to them. Reed is still doing his absent-minded scientist thing, Johnny being irresponsible, and Ben's new status quo as a married man hasn't changed him much. Sue... might as well be non-existent. I think Slott may have taken the name Invisible Woman too literally.
Nothing interesting is happening with the characters, them being a family is harped on every issue but nothing new or interesting is done with it. The kids are teens now, that itself should come with new challenges and dynamics in the family. The characters feel flat and one-note.

Their adventures are also boring and do nothing for the Marvel universe. Part of what the FF did was expand the Marvel universe in big ways. And so far the only new thing has been soul-mate planet, which feels so forgettable and unimportant. There needs to be some big changes and the Fantastic Four need to be treated as important again by doing things that are important to the Marvel Universe.
Also the characters are in desperate need of interesting developments and changes, particularly Sue and Johnny.

[Shalla Bal]

[center]IMHO, the finished product is almost as good:

Ooh, that is gorgeous. Where is it from? Did it appear in any comic? Do you know if Buscema finished it up (inked) himself, or did someone else subsequently worked on?

[The Whovian]

IMHO, the finished product is almost as good:





An unsung legend in the business, the artwork of John Buscema is truly dynamic:

Awesome stuff!! Big John is one of my favorite artists of all time.