The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2020

[markhyperion]

It's so frustrating that so many people are hating on the FF all over the Internet and some are specifically targeting Sue.

There is a few things going on here.

First, like some have said, X-Men fans see themselves as X-Men.

There is a reason that the character of Spiderman resonates with the public more than say Superman or Batman. Superman is unattainable Space Jesus, to be more deified than related to. Batman is what we WANT to be (no, billionaire ninja scientist genius detective IS NOT a realistic character). On the other hand, Spiderman is all of us. A simple guy thrust into a world of super-powers by accident.

So here is the thing. Most people who read comics are NERDS. It's ok, nerds get the girls (or guys) in 2020 and run Hollywood. Among those masses are the ones who post online (twitter, forums, etc) and debated about characteristics and personality traits of NON-EXISTENT characters. Those are TREMENDOUS NERDS (myself included). Again, not a bad thing, we drive media now (see all the Avengers Marvel movies).

These people see themselves as X-Men. The outcasts doing right by themselves. Forging a world for like minded mutants. So they're mad when someone attacks their precious X-Men.

Sadly, and this is telling of the subtle societal prejudice we still live in, the X-men fans (who don't read FF) don't see Susan as protecting her kids. They see her as a woman being a b@$ch!


Finally, they are afraid of Susan. No, not in real life, but of her ability. The X-men fans see their characters as the quintessential Marvel heroes. The strongest, most powerful, and most relevant.

Then along comes some lady who can literally just wash them all into the sea with a flick of her wrist. (Let Namor deal with them)

Which is kind of how she's being written in this 4X series. I'm sure it isn't going to happen that way, but they're writing it that way. And that makes the fans mad.

[Oberon]

shades of Wanda's treatment over these many years.

[Ravin' Ray]

When Was Franklin Richards First Established As a Mutant?

https://www.cbr.com/fantastic-four-f...utant-history/

[Iron Maiden]

When Was Franklin Richards First Established As a Mutant?

https://www.cbr.com/fantastic-four-f...utant-history/

I forget the issue number it is but I remember a panel where Franklin was outside and he was making a colony of ants move in formations while Sue wasn't looking. This was around the time when Sue left Reed.

[CaptCleghorn]

When Was Franklin Richards First Established As a Mutant?

https://www.cbr.com/fantastic-four-f...utant-history/

I'd have to go back to the late Kirby/early Buscema days but there were signs of powers fairly early on. Now the mutant part was verified later, I think. But I'm going off memories.

[Doombot]

Part of the reason X-fans hate on the FF and Sue is not just because they see the X-men (and/or themselves) as outcasts and minorities, but also because the FF are seen as old and as mainstream. The X-men are the edgy underdog people and the FF are the stuffy old, mainstream straight white family. Sue is a beautiful blonde woman who loves her husband and is a proud mother of two. Gasp, how boring is that. She's also more experienced and powerful than most X-men you could name.

[Drops Of Venus]

My biggest problem with the mutant metaphor being used to paint Sue and Reed as ''bigots'' is that it doesn't work when you translate it to real life. We're not talking about something harmless such as race, sexual orientation or gender. We're talking about a kid with the powers of a god. His powers are actually dangerous, even more so in the hands of the wrong people, which is a huge reason why Reed and Sue worry about him going to place like Krakoa, where literal villains are being given amnesty and running around doing shady stuff. And we know the reason why he is so wanted by Krakoa it's because of his power. We know that collecting Omega Level mutants is their priority right now. Why don't you see Xavier being so interested in recruiting Artie or Leech? Because he doesn't see them as a tool/weapon in the same way he does when it comes to Franklin. A real life minority would never be put in a position like that.

Also, after X-Men #7, knowing what Franklin would have to go through if he ends up losing his powers... yeah, his parents should definitely keep him away from that place.

[CaptCleghorn]

The criticism of the X-Men's actions in FF/X-Men being interpreted as anti-mutant bigotry is a realistic part of the X-Men being a stand-in for victims of prejudice. There are many real-life comparisons that can be drawn here where the criticism is believed to be valid.

[Crimz]

My biggest problem with the mutant metaphor being used to paint Sue and Reed as ''bigots'' is that it doesn't work when you translate it to real life. We're not talking about something harmless such as race, sexual orientation or gender. We're talking about a kid with the powers of a god. His powers are actually dangerous, even more so in the hands of the wrong people, which is a huge reason why Reed and Sue worry about him going to place like Krakoa, where literal villains are being given amnesty and running around doing shady stuff. And we know the reason why he is so wanted by Krakoa it's because of his power. We know that collecting Omega Level mutants is their priority right now. Why don't you see Xavier being so interested in recruiting Artie or Leech? Because he doesn't see them as a tool/weapon in the same way he does when it comes to Franklin. A real life minority would never be put in a position like that.

Also, after X-Men #7, knowing what Franklin would have to go through if he ends up losing his powers... yeah, his parents should definitely keep him away from that place.

I've always thought using the mutant metaphor for Franklin doesn't work very well. He is just so separate from the mutant plight because he belongs to another franchise. The issue with Franklin has never been prejudice, it's that a child has the power of a God. No one man should have that kind of power, let alone a child. That has always been his parent's concern. How do you deal with a child with that kind of power? They've never had a problem with him being a mutant, just the amount of power her wields. Anyone would be concerned about that, it would be irresponsible not to be concerned.

And the current Krakoa plot doesn't fit either. They don't want him living away from them as he's still a minor. Reed even said that Franklin can make the decision for himself when he's an adult. It's not about separating him from mutants or anything because he's always been around mutants with no problem. Reed and Sue even had X-23 as his and Vals babysitter at one time. The "Reed and Sue are bigots" angle just doesn't work.

[Ravin' Ray]

From AIPT, Empyre: Fantastic Four #0 Interior Pages

https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...-empyre-panel/

[U.N. Owen]

We know that collecting Omega Level mutants is their priority right now. Why don't you see Xavier being so interested in recruiting Artie or Leech? Because he doesn't see them as a tool/weapon in the same way he does when it comes to Franklin. A real life minority would never be put in a position like that.

Actually, Franklin fits the mutant metaphor in a different way. Generally, race correlates to wealth which correlates to influence. Franklin was born with great "wealth". Krakoa would recruit him because he's "rich and influential." It's why Leech and Artie aren't being recruited. They're "poor."

Also, I will never understand why anyone believes Franklin wants to explore his culture. He just wants power. If he wanted to explore his culture so much, he should want to be as far away as possible from the guy who locked him in hell rather than believe he can restore his powers.

[Frontier]

From AIPT, Empyre: Fantastic Four #0 Interior Pages

https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...-empyre-panel/

Female equivalent to the Grandmaster?

[Ravin' Ray]

Female equivalent to the Grandmaster?

The FF are supposed to meet the newly revealed Elder of the Universe Profiteer, so this might be her, staging gladiatorial combats, in this case between a Kree and a Skrull. And maybe we'll see how those kids are roped into this.

[CaptCleghorn]

Actually, Franklin fits the mutant metaphor in a different way. Generally, race correlates to wealth which correlates to influence. Franklin was born with great "wealth". Krakoa would recruit him because he's "rich and influential." It's why Leech and Artie aren't being recruited. They're "poor."

Also, I will never understand why anyone believes Franklin wants to explore his culture. He just wants power. If he wanted to explore his culture so much, he should want to be as far away as possible from the guy who locked him in hell rather than believe he can restore his powers.

I agree with your assessment of Franklin's not caring about "exploring his 'culture' ". Mutants are different because of their looks and powers. Franklin's living that now and has been his entire life, having been born into it. But Franklin's a teenager who may want to get out from under his parents now that his importance to creating universes has vanished. He has legitimate reason to be bummed. Yes, he emotes far too much and in an unpleasant manner but he's a freaking young teenage boy. Wanting to road trip to Krakoa is a typical teenage feeling on his part.

I'm not even sure why being a mutant is that big on his mind as he's grown-up with the FF and powered folks are the norm for him. He's only different now because he's no longer special. But when your Dad and Sister are two of the smartest people on Earth, your mother controls incredible power, and your uncles burst into flame and have super strength, does being a mutant mean anything? Even his Aunt Alicia is a famous talented sculptress.

The X-Men are basically offering Franklin candy and a puppy to get in their van and using Kitty as sex appeal for him.

[Shadowcat]

from aipt, empyre: Fantastic four #0 interior pages

https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...-empyre-panel/

looooooovvvvvveeeeeee. I. Am. Here. For. All. Of. This.