Page 63 of 149 FirstFirst ... 135359606162636465666773113 ... LastLast
Results 931 to 945 of 2233
  1. #931
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Thank god we avoided this

    But we didn't. That's exactly what they were trying to do since Schism, and that's what Marvel has been trying to force us to believe that happened.

  2. #932
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    But we didn't. That's exactly what they were trying to do since Schism, and that's what Marvel has been trying to force us to believe that happened.
    Have you read Ultimate X-Men and Millar's Magneto?

    Bendis' Cyclops beat racist policemen and saved teenagers, if Millar had written that Cyclops would have been a genocidal monster who devoured human flesh, like his Magneto.

  3. #933
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,519

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    But we didn't. That's exactly what they were trying to do since Schism, and that's what Marvel has been trying to force us to believe that happened.
    Hilariously, the X-Men have now fully embraced Magneto's philosophy of mutant supremacy XD
    Let your wallet talk.
    Never forget, Cyke fans~ https://twitter.com/i/status/1246248602768486402
    Jean had more presence in death than Cyke in Hickman's entire run.
    Hickman succeeded where 2010s Marvel didn't: make the X-Men villainous and irrelevant.
    Hilariously, the X-Men have now fully embraced mutant supremacy and racism against humans.
    For other Cyke-centered stories by a Cyclops fan: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1008144...ffle-or-Boogie

  4. #934
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops_was_right View Post
    I'm at the AvX point of my read through (I've read the main story before, but now I'm also reading all the X-men tie-ins) and I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that Xavier thought this was going to end well:

    Attachment 97152

    Attachment 97153

    Attachment 97154

    Mind-raping the guy who has had his brain tampered with since childhood and who couldn't forgive you for doing something similar to him when he was in the right statw ofmind and you think that it will go swell now that he is not? Also ambushing him with all his enemies inside of his mind? Also dumb of Magneto to bring him in the first place.

    Why not have someone whom he could potentially actually trust like Rachel instead? I guess this was the start of the myth of St.Xavier instead of seeing him for the ahady guy he often was.
    Mind rape? Thats kind of excessive. I dont think this story redeemed Xavier, especially since he returned and was arguably worse. I also dont think it would have ended any differently for Rachel. Scott wasnt rational by this point, was full of rage and fueled by Dark Phoenix. Its really a surprise that Xavier was the only hero killed in that battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    But we didn't. That's exactly what they were trying to do since Schism, and that's what Marvel has been trying to force us to believe that happened.
    Exactly



    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    Hilariously, the X-Men have now fully embraced Magneto's philosophy of mutant supremacy XD
    Not really. They want an equal seat at the table and they've taken peaceful methods to achieve that. They also dont want power or authority over all. The way Krakoa was established and how they present themselves to the world is nothing how Magneto was with Genosha beyond the superficial fact that both were nations predominently for mutants
    Last edited by Havok83; 05-31-2020 at 09:15 AM.

  5. #935
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    Hilariously, the X-Men have now fully embraced Magneto's philosophy of mutant supremacy XD
    That's false.

  6. #936
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Mind rape? Thats kind of excessive. I dont think this story redeemed Xavier, especially since he returned and was arguably worse. I also dont think it would have ended any differently for Rachel. Scott wasnt rational by this point, was full of rage and fueled by Dark Phoenix. Its really a surprise that Xavier was the only hero killed in that battle
    What else do you call entering someone else's mind forcefully without their permission? Xavier has a penchant for doing things to people's minds without their permission and by that point he knew from experience that Scott doesn't take well to that even when he is in full control of himself.

    In theory Xavier's plan was pretty sound - shut him off while he's dangerous and work from there - but why did he have a need to communicate that plan out to Phoenix!Scott even though he knew that would aggravate him even at the best of time?

    As for Dark Phoenix, Scott only went full Dark Phoenix after Xavier's death, so I still think there might have been a chance if they went about it differently than this ambush. I mean even though Emma had handled crazier in certain situations it was shown that she still had a certain degree of insight when she had one half of the Phoenix in her..

    As for my point about St. Xavier - I have mentioned before in this thread that I'm reading some of the stuff since House of M for the first time, so I have not got to the point where he has come back from the dead yet, my point was about the way the characters perceived him. I mean Captain America says he was one of the greatest men he ever knew in AvX: Consequences. I'm just not a fan of not speaking ill of the dead.

  7. #937
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Not really. They want an equal seat at the table and they've taken peaceful methods to achieve that. They also dont want power or authority over all. The way Krakoa was established and how they present themselves to the world is nothing how Magneto was with Genosha beyond the superficial fact that both were nations predominently for mutants
    They've taken up Magneto's goal to take over the Earth, and not wait while humanity dies out. They're using "peaceful methods" (which include green lighting Sabre tooth to steal tech from Reed Richards and Tony Stark and having their own CIA) who are subverting human governments with money and influence, Magneto was very up front that they're doing it to control humanity with their own methods. Through this they get to be the driver's over humanity future. Sure they want power, they own Otherworld now and Xavier knows is ok with it - read Excalibur. They want complete control over mutants over the world, and make a priority for having Omega's for a coming race war with humanity. The X-men have embraced Magneto's beliefs, just not his tactics. Magneto openly admits that mutants are the new gods of Earth and the X-men smile in the background while he does it. Magneto won.

  8. #938
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    I guess you haven't read all the comics where Logan and Scott show disagree with those Magneto bluffs. But that does not mean that they will face him in an open war for it, as they would before. Because they have matured.

    Changing the way humans think has always been the goal of the X-Men, it was a PR team for mutants. Only now they do it much better.

    They always wanted influence in the human world.
    Last edited by Glio; 06-01-2020 at 03:15 AM.

  9. #939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Thank god we avoided this

    Probably for the best. Mark Millar is a great writer who has done some amazing work. But he's not good at writing X-Men. In reading his work, I get the sense he really doesn't understand the characters, who they are, or what motivates them. That's especially true of Cyclops. If he had gone this route, then he would've ruined Cyclops for years. It would've required a retcon on the scale of Secret Empire. It's probably better that he got pulled away to work on movies. I think his writing style is more suited to that medium, anyways.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


    Or if you want, check out my YouTube channel, Jack's World.

  10. #940
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops_was_right View Post
    What else do you call entering someone else's mind forcefully without their permission? Xavier has a penchant for doing things to people's minds without their permission and by that point he knew from experience that Scott doesn't take well to that even when he is in full control of himself.

    In theory Xavier's plan was pretty sound - shut him off while he's dangerous and work from there - but why did he have a need to communicate that plan out to Phoenix!Scott even though he knew that would aggravate him even at the best of time?

    As for Dark Phoenix, Scott only went full Dark Phoenix after Xavier's death, so I still think there might have been a chance if they went about it differently than this ambush. I mean even though Emma had handled crazier in certain situations it was shown that she still had a certain degree of insight when she had one half of the Phoenix in her..

    As for my point about St. Xavier - I have mentioned before in this thread that I'm reading some of the stuff since House of M for the first time, so I have not got to the point where he has come back from the dead yet, my point was about the way the characters perceived him. I mean Captain America says he was one of the greatest men he ever knew in AvX: Consequences. I'm just not a fan of not speaking ill of the dead.
    So everytime a telepath uses their powers in a fight, its mindrape? I dont think so. What Xavier did to Magneto in Fatal Attractions was mindrape. What he did AvX was nowhere near as forceful and was how a telepath goes into battle. He tried to telepathically talk him down away from everyone else, not lobotomize him or rummage through the traumatic memories in his head as a weapon against him

    Most of the atrocities that Xavier committed were in secret and only affected the X-men. That was part of the many revelations we got in a post Morrison world. Captain America wouldnt really have any knowledge of this and he's so far removed from it, that it likely wouldnt have changed his perception of Xavier. Quite frankly Scott is the one that grew to hate Xavier the most bc he was the one that was closest to him and most directly impacted by those revelations. Xavier lost more favor with the fans than characters, probably in large part bc he would mindwipe and/or influence them to be more favorable towards him. We the readers knew this and held that against him

  11. #941
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    So everytime a telepath uses their powers in a fight, its mindrape? I dont think so. What Xavier did to Magneto in Fatal Attractions was mindrape. What he did AvX was nowhere near as forceful and was how a telepath goes into battle. He tried to telepathically talk him down away from everyone else, not lobotomize him or rummage through the traumatic memories in his head as a weapon against him

    Most of the atrocities that Xavier committed were in secret and only affected the X-men. That was part of the many revelations we got in a post Morrison world. Captain America wouldnt really have any knowledge of this and he's so far removed from it, that it likely wouldnt have changed his perception of Xavier. Quite frankly Scott is the one that grew to hate Xavier the most bc he was the one that was closest to him and most directly impacted by those revelations. Xavier lost more favor with the fans than characters, probably in large part bc he would mindwipe and/or influence them to be more favorable towards him. We the readers knew this and held that against him
    Did he really try to talk him down though at any point? I don't remember any panel where he was actually trying to reason with him, he was basically just screaming at him to stop and telling him how embarrassed he was by him and telling him how he would shut him down. Though I don't think Xavier was intending to lobotomize Scott unless he was absolutely forced to, I'm pretty sure Havok was kind of pointing at that option when he asked Charles to read his mind. I'm not saying that Xavier was coming from a bad place when he was trying to stop Scott, but given his past transgressions which as you pointed out Scott was most influenced by I just don't see how he thought it was going to do anything but aggravate Phoenix!Scott going about it that way. But I guess maybe it's because Charles kept kind of seeing himself as the man he wanted others to see him as?

  12. #942
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I guess you haven't read all the comics where Logan and Scott show disagree with those Magneto bluffs. But that does not mean that they will face him in an open war for it, as they would before. Because they have matured.
    The reason I'm a fan of Scott Summers is that he's a leader who will do the right thing, no matter the cost. He's very smart at coming up with plans and thinks ten times ahead of his enemies to win. He's a man who will stand up for equality between the races because that's the ethical thing to do. Over the years he's become more cynical and sided more with Magneto's thinking than Xavier's (as in past Xavier, not the current Xavier who may as well be a plant person switched by Moira), this direction was intriguing. Scott joining magneto? Being a terrorist rather than the teacher's pet? Lots of interesting stories to cover with that. Only this made him weak, his principles became compromised and he gave into hate and Magneto's mutant supremacist philosophy changed Cyclops just like it did with Xavier (Onslaught).

    They shouldn't be agreeing with Magneto about anything, and definitely not letting him get away with telling people mutants are their gods now. They haven't matured, they're regressed. They're normalising the Brotherhood's philosophy that humanity are beneath them rather than their equals. This isn't like it was when Magneto was the Xavier Institute's principle it's the reverse, they've switched to his ideological group. They assume they're not like Exodus yet Magneto currently holds as much sway over the "X-men" as Xavier does, at least Exodus realises what's doing. Magneto won.

    What's really going to be intriguing going forward is the aftermath of all this, and how they'll look at themselves when the snap out being Magneto's new Brotherhood. Assuming they all don't get retconned into being plant clones, of course.

    Changing the way humans think has always been the goal of the X-Men, it was a PR team for mutants. Only now they do it much better.

    They always wanted influence in the human world.
    That influence was about equality, not domination. It means they're not the X-men any longer, they're the Brotherhood now. Change is such a nebulous word when it really means is Magneto Was Right.

  13. #943
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    You cannot achieve equality without ending the power structures that are enriched by institutional racism. It's not as easy as "Oh, it's just ignorance."

  14. #944
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,619

    Default

    Magneto's not a bad person. You lambaste the X-men for becoming more like him, but he himself has become more like them. Xavier and Magneto were on opposite ends of the spectrum and what we see today is the two meeting in the middle. This isnt even unwarranted as Magneto has been a persistent ally and member for about 15 years now. He's not the enemy. There is nothing wrong with Scott working alongside him as he's proven himself. I question Sinister and Apocalypse, but not Magneto

  15. #945
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    Exactly, the current position for me is an intermediate point between Magneto and Xavier. That is perfectly reflected in the dinner with the foreign leaders. Formerly Magneto would have unleashed his fury against the armies of man, now he is content to wait on his island and use peaceful means.

    Xavier previously would have stayed in his mansion doing nothing to save mutants in danger for fear of compromising their morality, now he has given them a home and a safe haven.

    Krakoa is the intermediate point between the two points, just as Scott evolved to be the intermediate point. Neither dangerous radical nor useless passivity.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •