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  1. #961

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    There was certainly an abrupt leap. Eva Bell accuses Cyclops of fucking it for ... Trying to use the Eye of Agamotto to help the almighty mutant? How is that something morally repressible? Everyone else was trying to euthanize that mutant and Scott wanted to help him control his powers. It was a very contradictory message.

    In that story Scott was guilty of being killed by SHIELD. Like ... wow.
    Yeah, I mean e was going to use him, but nobody really bothered to ask him how, they just assumed with all the posturing about the revolution that he was going to use him in a fight.

    While he was going to use him as a deterrent in the same way that the world powers use nukes. Was it somewhat morally dubious? Sure, but if it worked it could have helped both Matthew and the rest of the mutants.

  2. #962
    Out Fighting for Peace! AJpyro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    There was certainly an abrupt leap. Eva Bell accuses Cyclops of fucking it for ... Trying to use the Eye of Agamotto to help the almighty mutant? How is that something morally repressible? Everyone else was trying to euthanize that mutant and Scott wanted to help him control his powers. It was a very contradictory message.

    In that story Scott was guilty of being killed by SHIELD. Like ... wow.
    Please do not remind me of the Mal-ya know what I mean the Eva Bell debacle. Mallory got unpersoned and needed help. Everyone else besides Scott and Magick were jerks.
    Le Suck it, Dolphin!

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  3. #963
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Bendis could have written those characters just as he was already doing in his books. Rememeber that All New X-men took place at the Jean Grey School and Wolverine's cast was already appearing regular in that book. WaTX as a title did not need to be involved
    I'd say that one of the two books from the Jean Grey School needed to be - although I think Adjectiveless X-Men would have been a better fit than Wolverine and the X-Men. Uncanny provides the perspective of Adult Scott's team, All New the perspective of the time-lost kids, and the third book provides the perspective of Wolverine's side. Or at least that's how it should have played out. But they certainly didn't need both books - only one book, or a single issue of each of the two, would have been enough to balance the perspective.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Magneto's not a bad person. You lambaste the X-men for becoming more like him, but he himself has become more like them. Xavier and Magneto were on opposite ends of the spectrum and what we see today is the two meeting in the middle. This isnt even unwarranted as Magneto has been a persistent ally and member for about 15 years now. He's not the enemy. There is nothing wrong with Scott working alongside him as he's proven himself. I question Sinister and Apocalypse, but not Magneto
    Magneto's a psychotic terrorist with untold blood on his hands from numerous high level super-villain attacks with delusions of godhood who never answered for his crimes. He's tortured and tried to murder the X-men for years. It's easy to get normalised when his bad deeds don't get bought up by anyone. The two aren't "meeting in the middle" they're doing what Magneto wants, just with more subterfuge than force. Magneto's been a super-villain recently, see X-men: Blue. Xavier's dream died, Magneto's lives.

    Edit: Magneto hasn't proven himself, he's just convinced Xavier's he's his best friend again. Of course, over the last few years Scott's one of the X-men who can't see through Magneto because he bought in on Magneto's philosophy before anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio
    You cannot achieve equality without ending the power structures that are enriched by institutional racism. It's not as easy as "Oh, it's just ignorance."
    Domination isn't equality.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 06-01-2020 at 04:56 PM.

  5. #965
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Magneto's a psychotic terrorist with untold blood on his hands from numerous high level super-villain attacks with delusions of godhood who never answered for his crimes. He's tortured and tried to murder the X-men for years. It's easy to get normalised when his bad deeds don't get bought up by anyone. The two aren't "meeting in the middle" they're doing what Magneto wants, just with more subterfuge than force. Magneto's been a super-villain recently, see X-men: Blue. Xavier's dream died, Magneto's lives.



    Domination isn't equality.
    Was. Thats not consistent with how he is now. Save the ending of Blue, he hasnt been portrayed like that in 20 years worth of comicbooks.

    They are meeting in the middle bc as you mention, Magneto was a psychotic terrorist. Magneto of old would have taken power by force, going around killing innnocents, attacking those that oppose him, even those among his own ranks. Its false to act like thats how he is right now. He has toned himself down considerably and is working as a teamplayer with the rest, not a dictator that above them all.
    Last edited by Havok83; 06-01-2020 at 04:58 PM.

  6. #966
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Magneto's a psychotic terrorist with untold blood on his hands from numerous high level super-villain attacks with delusions of godhood who never answered for his crimes. He's tortured and tried to murder the X-men for years. It's easy to get normalised when his bad deeds don't get bought up by anyone. The two aren't "meeting in the middle" they're doing what Magneto wants, just with more subterfuge than force. Magneto's been a super-villain recently, see X-men: Blue. Xavier's dream died, Magneto's lives.

    Edit: Magneto hasn't proven himself, he's just convinced Xavier's he's his best friend again. Of course, over the last few years Scott's one of the X-men who can't see through Magneto because he bought in on Magneto's philosophy before anyone else.



    Domination isn't equality.
    I could be wrong, but I think the insistence that Magneto was "a mad old terrorist twat" is one of the reasons Grant Morrison isn't writing X-Men anymore.

    Magneto's current direction (and has been for the last decade or two) is to slide between the 'villain with a point' and the extremist antihero, although he often seems to rest at antivillain. He isn't going to be allowed to be a moustache twirling supremacist again by the people in charge at Marvel, nor anyone likely to br in charge anytime in the near future. One of the rumors I have seen about phase 5 for the MCU has him much closer to the heroic end of the scale.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Was. Thats not consistent with how he is now. Save the ending of Blue, he hasnt been portrayed like that in 20 years worth of comicbooks.
    You say that as though Magneto's paid for his many crimes or give up on his ideology when he's done either. Everything in his past still counts, he didn't get a Crisis reboot. The X-men gave him a pardon rather than addressing the crimes he's committed. Cyclops has been far too lenient with all the pain and trauma he's put the team through.

    They are meeting in the middle bc as you mention, Magneto was a psychotic terrorist. Magneto of old would have taken power by force, going around killing innnocents, attacking those that oppose him, even those among his own ranks. Its false to act like thats how he is right now. He has toned himself down considerably and is working as a teamplayer with the rest, not a dictator that above them all.
    He's still a psychotic terrorist, and the X-men are far too comfortable letting him lead them. He's Xavier's number 2 and basically Xavier's Vice President in Krakoa. He doesn't have to be a dictator when they'll do what he wants by being polite, same result. He was able to get to Cyclops in Utopia and now all the X-men are following suit. If anything he got promoted, Scott got demoted with Krakoa. Don't confuse nicer with nice. His ideology remains intact, and now all the X-men are on board with him. He won.

  8. #968
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJpyro View Post


    ...Really starting to re-evaluate Bendis Uncanny.
    The true definition of a hero. I miss revolutionary Cyclops.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  9. #969
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Was. Thats not consistent with how he is now. Save the ending of Blue, he hasnt been portrayed like that in 20 years worth of comicbooks.

    They are meeting in the middle bc as you mention, Magneto was a psychotic terrorist. Magneto of old would have taken power by force, going around killing innnocents, attacking those that oppose him, even those among his own ranks. Its false to act like thats how he is right now. He has toned himself down considerably and is working as a teamplayer with the rest, not a dictator that above them all.
    He loves to play with his reputation: the frightening glare, the thinly-veiled threat… And what would he do if it doesn't work?
    And the rest use him like a scarecrow…

  10. #970
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I could be wrong, but I think the insistence that Magneto was "a mad old terrorist twat" is one of the reasons Grant Morrison isn't writing X-Men anymore.

    Magneto's current direction (and has been for the last decade or two) is to slide between the 'villain with a point' and the extremist antihero, although he often seems to rest at antivillain. He isn't going to be allowed to be a moustache twirling supremacist again by the people in charge at Marvel, nor anyone likely to br in charge anytime in the near future. One of the rumors I have seen about phase 5 for the MCU has him much closer to the heroic end of the scale.
    I wouldn't say that going back and forth is having a direction… (well, in mathematics, yes, it is).
    The authors love too much the anti-hero to let him remain the 'villain with a point', a theme already widely explored by Claremont.
    I find him tiring: he has become too much inconsistent and ridiculously caricatural…

  11. #971
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Considering that both Magneto and Xorn and Zorn are alive right now, the amount of retcon there is on that subject gives me a headache.

  12. #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    It's one of the frustrating things about. He laids out a solid base and then gets... bored with it? uninspired?

    Cyclops felt so lost in the back end of that run
    BMB might work better as an editor than a writer. His arcs have a good opening issue and then quickly devolves into--- what was the term his fans were using to defend his work? Plot/story decompression or whatever? I feel like another writer could use the base plot and tell a better story. Like Rucka did with Tyke.

    Some peeps have said the TPB version of BMB's run is actually good, though. I don't know. I just found his UXM, at best, more uninspired than his ANXM run.
    Let your wallet talk.

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    "It's only wrong when Cyclops does it."

    Hickman is building towards AvX 2.0 but, this time, the X-Men are actually the villains~

    Hilariously, the X-Men have now fully embraced Magneto's philosophy of mutant supremacy XD

  13. #973
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    BMB might work better as an editor than a writer. His arcs have a good opening issue and then quickly devolves into--- what was the term his fans were using to defend his work? Plot/story decompression or whatever? I feel like another writer could use the base plot and tell a better story. Like Rucka did with Tyke.

    Some peeps have said the TPB version of BMB's run is actually good, though. I don't know. I just found his UXM, at best, more uninspired than his ANXM run.
    Bendis comes up with some great concepts and some mind blowing intro issues. Then, it seems he loses focus somewhere in the middle and messes up the flow towards the ending, making it underwhelming since no one can tell how he got there.

    It's like he is the guy behind season 8 of Game of Thrones....
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  14. #974
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I could be wrong, but I think the insistence that Magneto was "a mad old terrorist twat" is one of the reasons Grant Morrison isn't writing X-Men anymore.

    Magneto's current direction (and has been for the last decade or two) is to slide between the 'villain with a point' and the extremist antihero, although he often seems to rest at antivillain. He isn't going to be allowed to be a moustache twirling supremacist again by the people in charge at Marvel, nor anyone likely to br in charge anytime in the near future. One of the rumors I have seen about phase 5 for the MCU has him much closer to the heroic end of the scale.
    His portrayal in Cullen Bunn’s run is how I see Magneto. He’s not a good man, but he’s a necessary evil given the threats mutants face. He’s never going to be a hero and I am wary of efforts to whitewash everything he’s done as justified, since I don’t feel that way. But there is a sympathetic quantity to him that’s undeniable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Bendis comes up with some great concepts and some mind blowing intro issues. Then, it seems he loses focus somewhere in the middle and messes up the flow towards the ending, making it underwhelming since no one can tell how he got there.

    It's like he is the guy behind season 8 of Game of Thrones....
    His Marvel work had a tendency to start strong, meander around, and end poorly. But to be fair, revolutionary Cyclops was never going to fly long term. Either Scott succeeds in his revolution and the “hated and feared” status quo shifts, which Marvel had spent years rolling back the Morrison New X-Men status quo specifically because they wanted that status quo back, or Scott fails and he comes across as impotent. It was never going to end any other way than how it did. It could’ve been handled much better than it was though, and good Lord were the O5 an utter waste of everyone’s time, they literally accomplished nothing meaningful.
    Last edited by Vordan; 06-02-2020 at 09:50 PM.

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    His portrayal in Cullen Bunn’s run is how I see Magneto. He’s not a good man, but he’s a necessary evil given the threats mutants face. He’s never going to be a hero and I am wary of efforts to whitewash everything he’s done as justified, since I don’t feel that way. But there is a sympathetic quantity to him that’s undeniable.
    I think it was Claremont who defined Magneto as a man with a sympathetic cause who went too far with his methods, Bunn's simply continuing that characterisation. I don't buy that he's a necessary evil, given how he's acted over the years. Far too people have bought into the idea that just because he has sympathetic motives that makes a him a "good man" and prefer to avoid how badly he's terrorised the world and other people because that interferes with the narrative they want to believe. Marvel really should do a better job bringing up what he's done by other characters, others it makes it easy to ignore his past.

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