Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2020

[Gray Lensman]

As I said, it's clear Hickman tries to cover up his cloning process with the term resurrection, and is rolling with the idea of resurrection. The problem is, it was already established--- as others have pointed out--- that the soul exists in the Marvel Universe. Off the top of my head, there was Magick's quest to regain her soul. Maybe Hickman will expound on the soul jet-lag idea in the future. I mean, Maddie is Jean's clone-- why didn't Jean's soul go to her, instead?

Hickman's cloning process is, really, just a clever way to bring back fan-favorites back, imho.

We'll just agree to disagree. Hickman calls it resurrection; I call it cloning.



Well-said!

Now if only Hickman can get to telling that story instead of the current batch of fillers--ahem, "world-building" we're getting.

It's established that Jean never truly 'died' at that point and her body was in stasis in a cosmic cocoon. If the soul never leaves the original body it can't inhabit a clone, gemstone, or anything else. Via the magic of retcons, it was established where Jean's soul was all along, and the retcon that made Maddie into a literal clone of Jean rather than a soap-opera level coincidence happened as a reaction to the first retcon.

[xiyon]

It's established that Jean never truly 'died' at that point and her body was in stasis in a cosmic cocoon. If the soul never leaves the original body it can't inhabit a clone, gemstone, or anything else. Via the magic of retcons, it was established where Jean's soul was all along, and the retcon that made Maddie into a literal clone of Jean rather than a soap-opera level coincidence happened as a reaction to the first retcon.

What about Jean's death at the end of Morrison's run? Personally, I'm of the opinion that clones do have their own souls, too. And it's also canon in-universe: I remember Belasco commenting about Laura's soul being "tainted by science" when the New X-Men went to Limbo.

But I digress. Again, Hickman's clearly calling this a resurrection, so calling Hickman!Clops Clone!Clops is more of an affectionate joke. Even if half-meant, in my case :P

[MechaJeanix]

Because of the way Hickman structured the resurrection protocol. Or, perhaps more appropriately, the way he didn't structure it.

Dead mutants are "resurrected" by implanting back-up copies of their minds, previously stored in Cerebro, into cloned bodies created by the Five. Note: they are NOT "resurrected" via consciousness transfer at the time of death.

Look at it this way: when Scott died fighting Orchis, Xavier didn't bring him back by capturing his soul at the time of death, storing it in Cerebro, and implanting it into a new body. No, Xavier used a back-up copy of Scott's mind that had already been created and stored in Cerebro and put that into the new body. In other words, when Scott died, the back-up copy of his mind already existed. There were already two iterations of him--the one who died (presumably the original whom Kate Summers gave birth to decades ago) and the back-up copy of him stored in Cerebro. It's that back-up copy we see up and around now. He is A Scott, but he is not THE Scott. THE Scott is dead.

Furthermore, we know this design isn't a goof on Hickman's part, but rather a deliberate plot choice because Hickman himself has said there will be stories dealing with what happens when there are two versions of a character alive at the same time. (My guess is it will involve Xavier and the Five "resurrecting" someone who turns out not to have died.) Whether or not this setup plays a larger role in Hickman's grand design remains to be seen. My bet is it does.

I get what you are saying, but my point still remains. We are all aware of bad science attempts to capture, measure, or quantify the "soul" and that the soul is this abstract metaphysical religious concept. I agree that Hickman could have captured a mutant's mind as they died due to being a powerful telepath or having other powerful telepaths around. However, as you have pointed out Hickman did not go this route. He didn't need to because they established that the soul (because of what it would actually be and not the abstract religious concept) could be backed up, stored as a copy by cerebro. It is on panel that Xavier uses cerebro to put the soul back in the mutant husk.

Now, I do agree that Hickman and his team will explore what this means (and the implications) as well as what happens when there are two copies. It will be interesting how he settles this issue and I look forward to it. I still think we need to open up how we view this idea of a "'soul" which would help fans who are uneasy about the back-ups or copies or whatever. If we conceded that our souls are essentially what is stored in our brains, then there isn't a problem with mutants being restored or "resurrected" by Xavier's cerebo savepoint. It is almost like a save point in a video game.

Again, I think Hickman and company did not want us to view these as fakes or not the real deal by killing and resurrecting some of the most popular characters. Hickman said that Claremont essentially used this method with Xavier (which he did) and I think we all view Xavier as being the same and not just a cloned body (though the cerebro storage makes it a bit different but the concept remains the same).

I know for myself I do not see Scott Summers as a clone duplicate. I see him as the same character of Scott we have always had.

[xiyon]

Salute to the OG!

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men...-actor-a173040

I'm just hoping the MCU can work its magic on Cyke--- but part of me also wants to drop the MCU after Endgame. While not a stellar movie, Endgame definitely delivered as much fanservice as it could & ended the storylines of the peeps that carried the MCU for the past decade, and I don't know if the incoming phases can still pepper its movies with that same spice. When are the X-Men coming, anyways? I seem to recall seeing a poster of the movies for Phase...er...4(?), and there were no X-Men (or even F4) announced.

[Hybrid]

When are the X-Men coming, anyways? I seem to recall seeing a poster of the movies for Phase...er...4(?), and there were no X-Men (or even F4) announced.

Phase 5, which runs from 2022-24.

[Purplevit]

Phase 5, which runs from 2022-24.

Just my opinion. I doubt that we will got X-Men movie in nearest years and in Phase 5 at all.

[Hybrid]

Just my opinion. I doubt that we will got X-Men movie in nearest years and in Phase 5 at all.

[Purplevit]

I know this. Mutants. I think it means only that some mutant characters will appear in other projects in Phase 5. Or will be introduced if we are lucky. I think they will delay X-Men team movie as much as possible. Will see what will really happen.

[Hybrid]

I know this. Mutants. I think it means only that some mutant characters will appear in other projects in Phase 5. Or will be introduced if we are lucky. I think they will delay X-Men team movie as much as possible. Will see what will really happen.

...No.

He wouldn't have mentioned Fantastic Four and X-Men in the same breath as Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, and Blade, if there were no plans to use them. Then you have BP2, CM2, and GotG 3 fully confirmed shortly afterwards. Also, consider that Madripoor appears in Falcon and the Winter Solider while S.W.O.R.D. is in WandaVision. Not to mention Marvel Studios is making Deadpool 3...

Goddamn, I can't believe people still think they're going to wait 10 years introduce all the new stuff they have. I would bet that "Mutants" most likely means multiple X-Men projects, considering how big the brand is.

Also, Feige was asked about the wording. Here's the answer:

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/07...han-fox-movies

“‘Mutants’ and ‘X-Men’ are interchangeable. I just said ‘mutants,’” Feige explained.

He even further elaborated:

“Whatever we do will be quite different than what’s been done before,” Feige said.

The people at Marvel are just as excited as we are to make X-Men. They're not gonna stall it out as much as possible for no reason.

[Purplevit]

...No.

He wouldn't have mentioned Fantastic Four and X-Men in the same breath as Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, and Blade, if there were no plans to use them. Then you have BP2, CM2, and GotG 3 fully confirmed shortly afterwards. Also, consider that Madripoor appears in Falcon and the Winter Solider while S.W.O.R.D. is in WandaVision. Not to mention Marvel Studios is making Deadpool 3...

Goddamn, I can't believe people still think they're going to wait 10 years introduce all the new stuff they have. I would bet that "Mutants" most likely means multiple X-Men projects, considering how big the brand is.

Also, Feige was asked about the wording. Here's the answer:

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/07...han-fox-movies



He even further elaborated:



The people at Marvel are just as excited as we are to make X-Men. They're not gonna stall it out as much as possible for no reason.

Thanks for all detailed info. I hope you are right. Will see what will happen.

[FUBAR007]

Hickman said that Claremont essentially used this method with Xavier (which he did) and I think we all view Xavier as being the same and not just a cloned body (though the cerebro storage makes it a bit different but the concept remains the same).

Xavier didn't die. He was physically transformed into a Brood. Sikorsky and Moira cloned him a new body and transferred his mind into it. Exactly how is unknown because it all occurred off-panel.

TL;DR: Xavier was a case of consciousness transfer, not restoration from back-up.

I know for myself I do not see Scott Summers as a clone duplicate. I see him as the same character of Scott we have always had.

Good for you. But, that's your interpretation, not canon. Because Hickman has, for the time being, left the canon open to interpretation, others' interpretations will vary. Calibrate accordingly.

[Godzilla2099]

I didn't get a chance to read last week's new X-Men Issue. Didn't get much info on how Cyclops was portrayed.

Worth picking up?

[OpticDreams]

The previews were worrisome to me at least.

[xiyon]

I didn't get a chance to read last week's new X-Men Issue. Didn't get much info on how Cyclops was portrayed.

Worth picking up?

If you've been enjoying the one-and-dones and Hickman!Clops, go get it. It's just more of the same.

The previews were worrisome to me at least.

Which previews?

[gambitxremy]

https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/cyclops/biography

Meanwhile, once Emma realized Sinister had based the brainwaves of his "perfect" species of clones off of Cyclops (for tactical brilliance),