Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2020

[xiyon]

What do you think Hickmans plans for Cyclops are? It seems a very good reason why he picked him to be the lead character - he’s not on the council, for starters. Is he the one who will uncover some of the truths of Krakoa and have to face judgement from the council?

It would be a very Hickman thing to have him as a person who believes and then tear that down.

Hickman referenced a story which House / Powers of X was based on in an interview. Just look for whoever is Cyke's counterpart there, and we'll know what Cyke's role is gonna be. Just look at Hickman's Secret Wars, which progressed similarly to the original Secret Wars but with altered context and ending. Some call it a clever call-back / nostalgia; I just see it as official fanfiction.

For the mean time, Cyke just exists to observe the plot-of-the-month unfold. Nothing much beyond that.

[Kal-El Summers]

So other than Cyclops, Wolverine and Nightcrawler, who’s had some misgivings over the way of things on Krakoa?

I think Laura did in Fallen Angels, maybe Wi-Fi as well.

[your_name_here]

Hickman referenced a story which House / Powers of X was based on in an interview. Just look for whoever is Cyke's counterpart there, and we'll know what Cyke's role is gonna be. Just look at Hickman's Secret Wars, which progressed similarly to the original Secret Wars but with altered context and ending. Some call it a clever call-back / nostalgia; I just see it as official fanfiction.

For the mean time, Cyke just exists to observe the plot-of-the-month unfold. Nothing much beyond that.

What story was that?

[Rzerox21xx]

So this is the opinion of my friend, we been friends for years even if we dont see eye to eye about certain issues but his favorite character is Cyclops and his reaction athough amuses me due to be entertaining but yeah he does not like that fact that Cyclops is not only sharing Jean but implied to be doing things with Logan and he's straight does this to celebrities he admire where he would be in queer denial over a celeb or figure he loves being bi or gay. to be fairy he hates Logan and rather it be someone else than him but yeah but he does have a right-leaning conservative way of thinking. athough I do find his reaction amusing and i would poke the bear just to mess with him, he's clearly one of those x-men fans that dont really get the message and theme of the stories such as tolerance, overcoming differences, and combating bigotry., he sees cool characters and costumes. lol

even though this is about cyclops and whats going on with him this might go better in the scott/logan/jean/emma thread. not sure

[xiyon]

What story was that?

Can't remember. It was in one of his HoX/PoX interviews where he commented on the similarities between Krakoa, its culture, governing body, etc. with whatever book it was.

So this is the opinion of my friend, we been friends for years even if we dont see eye to eye about certain issues but his favorite character is Cyclops and his reaction athough amuses me due to be entertaining but yeah he does not like that fact that Cyclops is not only sharing Jean but implied to be doing things with Logan and he's straight does this to celebrities he admire where he would be in queer denial over a celeb or figure he loves being bi or gay. to be fairy he hates Logan and rather it be someone else than him but yeah but he does have a right-leaning conservative way of thinking. athough I do find his reaction amusing and i would poke the bear just to mess with him, he's clearly one of those x-men fans that dont really get the message and theme of the stories such as tolerance, overcoming differences, and combating bigotry., he sees cool characters and costumes. lol

even though this is about cyclops and whats going on with him this might go better in the scott/logan/jean/emma thread. not sure

For me, it's not so much a question of tolerance but lazy writing. Understandably so, because breaking up the rectangle into its own factions is a hornet's nest DisMarvel doesn't want any part of. I'll preface this by stating that I was of the opinion that Cyke and/or Wolverine should have remained dead until the X-Office finally decided on what to do with the ships and commit to it.

Anyway. Hickman takes the semi-"troll" route of having them all sleep with each other in medias res without any build up showing how they got there, and Hickman expects readers to just accept whatever he's writing. It's presented lazily, bordering on a sort-of queer-baiting-esque vibe, even, because a serious discussion on the relationship doesn't seem to be a story Hickman has any interest telling in the near future, as far as I'm aware of but, hey, it also seems to drum up a lot of fan support if the sales numbers are anything to go by.

As things are, the cast feels incredibly out of character because we don't know how they arrived at this point. In fact, the only characters that can be made sense of are Magneto, Chuckster, and Moira. Even Cyclops doesn't read like Cyclops, to me, but whatever original character Hickman wants him to be.

[DragonPiece]

Hickman said in interviews that what he likes about Cyclops now is that he can be the guy who can believe again.

In that sense, like Logan, I suppose that in both cases the doubts about Krakoa will gradually grow and when the point comes, those doubts will lead somewhere.

Also, I suspect that Hickman may like to make a parallel with Scott,the Phoenix and Xavier again, as he did in Secret Wars.

Maybe the Phoenix at some point will be important to face the Dominions.

what interview are you talking about? I can't find any interviews with hickman specifically talking about cyclops in his run.

[TheDeadSpace]

For me, it's not so much a question of tolerance but lazy writing. Understandably so, because breaking up the rectangle into its own factions is a hornet's nest DisMarvel doesn't want any part of. I'll preface this by stating that I was of the opinion that Cyke and/or Wolverine should have remained dead until the X-Office finally decided on what to do with the ships and commit to it.

Anyway. Hickman takes the semi-"troll" route of having them all sleep with each other in medias res without any build up showing how they got there, and Hickman expects readers to just accept whatever he's writing. It's presented lazily, bordering on a sort-of queer-baiting-esque vibe, even, because a serious discussion on the relationship doesn't seem to be a story Hickman has any interest telling in the near future, as far as I'm aware of but, hey, it also seems to drum up a lot of fan support if the sales numbers are anything to go by.

As things are, the cast feels incredibly out of character because we don't know how they arrived at this point. In fact, the only characters that can be made sense of are Magneto, Chuckster, and Moira. Even Cyclops doesn't read like Cyclops, to me, but whatever original character Hickman wants him to be.

It's pretty much the same for me. It feels like an odd transition in that the writing jumped from point A to point C while skipping all of B. For some that's fine, but for me it's a bit difficult to fully care for something if I missed the buildup and transition. It doesn't even seem like we'll see anything in the past in detail.

[xiyon]

It's pretty much the same for me. It feels like an odd transition in that the writing jumped from point A to point C while skipping all of B. For some that's fine, but for me it's a bit difficult to fully care for something if I missed the buildup and transition. It doesn't even seem like we'll see anything in the past in detail.

Honestly, though. It's great that Hickman has grand plans for and the actual power to move the status quo forward, but Krakoa comes off feeling like the edgy emo-kid of Utopia. And I'm here shaking my head at all the people that bashed both Cyke and Utopia when the Schism happened-- a conflict of philosophies that's now completely swept under the rug because of how poorly it was conceived. And I'm only bringing this up because people keep saying Hickman isn't retconning / rebooting anything. I disagree, of course, but, yeah...

Ah, well. "It's only wrong when Cyclops does it".

[loke13]

Honestly, though. It's great that Hickman has grand plans for and the actual power to move the status quo forward, but Krakoa comes off feeling like the edgy emo-kid of Utopia. And I'm here shaking my head at all the people that bashed both Cyke and Utopia when the Schism happened-- a conflict of philosophies that's now completely swept under the rug because of how poorly it was conceived. And I'm only bringing this up because people keep saying Hickman isn't retconning / rebooting anything. I disagree, of course, but, yeah...

Ah, well. "It's only wrong when Cyclops does it".

How is it an emo-edgy version of Utopia?

[AJpyro]

How is it an emo-edgy version of Utopia?

Besides the cult like nature of things

spoilers:

XMEN 7 has the crucible where mutants face down Apoc where they test their mettle to get their powers back. And yes they die during it and are reborn. Aside from the practical of not having mass suicides overwhelming the 5, there is no going gentle into the good night and rising reborn at Dawn. Its suicide. Pretty edgy. I say this as someone enjoying the whole thing.

end of spoilers

[xiyon]

Besides the cult like nature of things

spoilers:

XMEN 7 has the crucible where mutants face down Apoc where they test their mettle to get their powers back. And yes they die during it and are reborn. Aside from the practical of not having mass suicides overwhelming the 5, there is no going gentle into the good night and rising reborn at Dawn. Its suicide. Pretty edgy. I say this as someone enjoying the whole thing.

end of spoilers

Pretty much.

Don't get me wrong, though. The Crucible is definitely an interesting concept, and an interesting answer to a decade-and-a-half-ish old plot-line. And yet, two problems do creep up.

Firstly, there's no reason the X-Men should be supporting this solution. Cyke / Kurt / Wolvie lampshading does not make good writing; just mouthpieces for Hickman's lip-service. In the end, the X-Men are allowing it to happen. Now, if this was done by, say, a group consisting solely of Apocalypse and his followers / Mr. Sinister and the Marauders, I wouldn't have any problems. But Hickman's seriously asking people to suspend their disbelief enough to believe even Storm would willingly watch people she knows off themselves in front of a crowd just for the chance of regaining their powers...?

Secondly, AvX was supposed to be the bookend to the House of M / Decimation story-line. Hickman inserting himself close to a decade after AvX, and almost a decade-and-a-half after House of M comes off as forced conflict. A case of, "Hey, look how smart I am by giving this convoluted solution to repowering the mutants Wanda depowered and reopening plot points that were supposed to be settled! No, I'm not totally diminishing old stories, honest! I'M PAYING MY RESPECT TO THEM, REALLY!!!" Once more, the issue, to me, comes off as filler.

Now, if Hickman actually took the time to show how the X-Men transitioned to the House/Powers/Dawn of X line of thinking, then this sudden shift in status quo would be more believable. But as things are, and looking at Hickman's track record, character development and drama are not his strengths. To me, he's more over-arching "BIG THINGS ARE HAPPENING!" type of guy. Sort of like Morrison, I guess.

But, eh, if you're enjoying the books so far, then by all means go spend your money on them. Lordy knows how much your local comic book shop will appreciate the patronage.

[Omega Alpha]

And once again I'd like to point out that Aero agreed. Ultimately, if a mutant willingly agrees to through the Crucible, I'm not sure what Scott or the other X-men can do.

[xiyon]

And once again I'd like to point out that Aero agreed. Ultimately, if a mutant willingly agrees to through the Crucible, I'm not sure what Scott or the other X-men can do.

Not show their support or neutrality to the matter, for starters. How did that quote go, again? "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

I'd give a similar real-world scenario why Aero's consent shouldn't be taken, but that's a discussion on Gillick competence and the limits of informed consent, an allusion to mental health as it relates to persons with disability, and assuming one believes in life after death, all points that have been discussed in some way or another in the appropriate thread. All that said, let's just agree to disagree.

Keeping to the appreciation thread, I'll just say I'm disappointed in our boy, but the blame can only fall in the writer. Maybe, somewhere down the line, Hickman will make sense of where everyone's at but, at the moment, I'm personally disappointed.

[MechaJeanix]

And once again I'd like to point out that Aero agreed. Ultimately, if a mutant willingly agrees to through the Crucible, I'm not sure what Scott or the other X-men can do.

I agree that choice is important here. Though we can always consider power dynamics that might reshape or reframe the idea of choice (what other choice is there to make if you desperately want your powers back)? What power do you have other than comply to get what you so strongly desire?

[loke13]

Pretty much.

Don't get me wrong, though. The Crucible is definitely an interesting concept, and an interesting answer to a decade-and-a-half-ish old plot-line. And yet, two problems do creep up.

Firstly, there's no reason the X-Men should be supporting this solution. Cyke / Kurt / Wolvie lampshading does not make good writing; just mouthpieces for Hickman's lip-service. In the end, the X-Men are allowing it to happen. Now, if this was done by, say, a group consisting solely of Apocalypse and his followers / Mr. Sinister and the Marauders, I wouldn't have any problems. But Hickman's seriously asking people to suspend their disbelief enough to believe even Storm would willingly watch people she knows off themselves in front of a crowd just for the chance of regaining their powers...?

Secondly, AvX was supposed to be the bookend to the House of M / Decimation story-line. Hickman inserting himself close to a decade after AvX, and almost a decade-and-a-half after House of M comes off as forced conflict. A case of, "Hey, look how smart I am by giving this convoluted solution to repowering the mutants Wanda depowered and reopening plot points that were supposed to be settled! No, I'm not totally diminishing old stories, honest! I'M PAYING MY RESPECT TO THEM, REALLY!!!" Once more, the issue, to me, comes off as filler.

Now, if Hickman actually took the time to show how the X-Men transitioned to the House/Powers/Dawn of X line of thinking, then this sudden shift in status quo would be more believable. But as things are, and looking at Hickman's track record, character development and drama are not his strengths. To me, he's more over-arching "BIG THINGS ARE HAPPENING!" type of guy. Sort of like Morrison, I guess.

But, eh, if you're enjoying the books so far, then by all means go spend your money on them. Lordy knows how much your local comic book shop will appreciate the patronage.

This entire post comes off as unnecessarily patronizing. To say that there's no reason the X-Men would accept this solution when the issue lays out a very good reason why some people would accept this solution and why some people would refuse it and why some people would have difficulty accepting it. Scott while understandablely being unnerved by the method can see the cold logic behind it. Jean was an avatar to Death and Rebirth. Storms situation actually mirrors the crucible being a mutant who was depowered and went through a trial by fire to get her powers back. So to say there's no reason why some of the X-Men wouldn't agree to this isn't true. It simply doesnt your rigid definition for who the Xmen are.