Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2020

[Havok83]

Yeah, but my issue is what happens when Hickman leaves. While I doubt he'll part in such bad terms, one only has to see what they did with Morrison's work after he left.



But the X-men aren't out of character NOW, they were out of character THEN.

during Utopia? How so? They were written more in character as a whole back then with less WTFs in terms of what they accept

[Omega Alpha]

during Utopia? How so? They were written more in character as a whole back then with less WTFs in terms of what they accept

Of course they were written completely out of character:

Cyclops creates a secret X-force in the moment mutantkind faces routinely terrorist attacks and happens to be in it's worse possible moment- the X-men complain. Then after the moment passes, it succeeds in it's mission, and Cyclops disbands it, Wolverine continues it, even when he's a school headmaster arguing against violence, and every mission ends up blowing in their face- yet everyone loves him and is fine with it, barely saying a word;

Wolverine feeds the Avengers deliberately false information and leads a full-blown assault on the X-men, not even caring if he arms children in the way, so they can kidnap a teenage girl (can you imagine Claremont's or Morrison's Wolverine leading an assault against the X-men, for any reason? Come on!)

In a moment when mutantkind is in it's lowest point population-wise and is pushing for be fully recognized as a nation, they think it's a good idea to take half the mutants away, and go live in the country that historically oppressed and tried to murder them more than any other, and thinking Wolverine is a great choice for leader and school headmaster.

Cyclops is treated as a dictator even though he offers to hold an election, gives them a jet and wishes them success, and as a terrorist for trying to intimidate other nations not to invade them, even though every single country on Earth does or did that at some point, specially those whose very existence is questioned by hostile nations and terrorist organizations *cough* Israel *cough*.

And that's just from the top of my head.

The issue there is, besides Marvel's hostility towards the X-men at the time due to movie rights, is that Marvel, being a corporation, and, I suspect, most Marvel editors and writers, are all in favor of what passes in the US as leftism, this corporate liberalism of the Clintons/Obama/Biden (all of whom would be in center-right in nearly all developed countries), which is normally what the X-men pushed- passively asking for an improvement of their status, with the occasional march or protest here and there, quietly accepting their status since it's not like they have to give their seat on the bus to a white man/ aren't going to jail for being gay/aren't forced to marry a man and have children if they don't want to, etc, etc.

However, they are petrified of a Black Lives Matter type of movement or a Warren/Sanders kind of political candidate actively and aggressively demanding real change, and Cyclops Utopia/Revolutionary era was exactly this kind of activist.

(And for those of you Americans that don't think most Democrats would be considered conservative in other developed countries, remember that while Obama's Medicare was nowhere near as extensive as Sanders' plan, Boris Johnson, a far-right winger by Britain's standards, campaigned for Brexit falsely arguing that leaving the UK would allow for hundreds of millions more every month to the NHS, and not even the most radical conservatives argue for it to be abolished)

[Havok83]

Of course they were written completely out of character:

Cyclops creates a secret X-force in the moment mutantkind faces routinely terrorist attacks and happens to be in it's worse possible moment- the X-men complain. Then after the moment passes, it succeeds in it's mission, and Cyclops disbands it, Wolverine continues it, even when he's a school headmaster arguing against violence, and every mission ends up blowing in their face- yet everyone loves him and is fine with it, barely saying a word;

X-men dont kill. Thats always something thats been core to them and they only justify it in terms of self defense but what X-Force did was murder. They assasinated people and that was never something that the bulk of the X-men were ever cool with. Being out of character would be to support that with no objections. Besides ,most of the X-men never even knew about any of this until it was over and we did see objections and horror to the revelations. Beast and Nightcrawler for example were very much in character with those reactions. Some characters didnt like Emma, Psylocke, Magneto and Magik werent phased which was true to their characters

Wolverine feeds the Avengers deliberately false information and leads a full-blown assault on the X-men, not even caring if he arms children in the way, so they can kidnap a teenage girl (can you imagine Claremont's or Morrison's Wolverine leading an assault against the X-men, for any reason? Come on!)

Then I guess that would be Wolverine being out of character, not the X-men. At that point, he wasnt representing the X-men anyway, as he was firmly planted with the Avengers. The bulk of the X-men put their differences aside and rallied behind the same cause and that was procuring the future of their race.

In a moment when mutantkind is in it's lowest point population-wise and is pushing for be fully recognized as a nation, they think it's a good idea to take half the mutants away, and go live in the country that historically oppressed and tried to murder them more than any other, and thinking Wolverine is a great choice for leader and school headmaster.

People didnt like it but Schism was years worth of build up. Not everyone was cool with how Scott had been running things Everyone shouldnt be all on the same page and we saw dissention and differenting opinions. That made a whole lot more sense than 99.9% of the mutants now just going with the flow. Wolverine provided an alternative option to those that were either over Utopia or Scott

[Glio]

Schism problem is that it was forced, rushed and made no sense. They needed a new status quo and they didn't care how to get it.

The reason they argue makes no sense, Logan arguing about the morality of child soldiers makes no sense, refusing to have an election makes no sense. Cyclops remained in character throughout Schism, Wolverine became the supreme hypocrite. It should have been Storm, or Xavier, or anyone other than Logan.

[Omega Alpha]

Then I guess that would be Wolverine being out of character, not the X-men. At that point, he wasnt representing the X-men anyway, as he was firmly planted with the Avengers. The bulk of the X-men put their differences aside and rallied behind the same cause and that was procuring the future of their race.

...And yet NONE of the X-men condemned Logan for his actions, or thought it was a good idea to remove him for a position of leadership of the X-men or headmaster of the school. Hence, out of character.

X-men dont kill. Thats always something thats been core to them and they only justify it in terms of self defense but what X-Force did was murder. They assasinated people and that was never something that the bulk of the X-men were ever cool with. Being out of character would be to support that with no objections. Besides ,most of the X-men never even knew about any of this until it was over and we did see objections and horror to the revelations. Beast and Nightcrawler for example were very much in character with those reactions. Some characters didnt like Emma, Psylocke, Magneto and Magik werent phased which was true to their characters

And again I'd like to point out that none of the characters that learned about Logan's X-force protested much, if at all, including Kitty, Beast, Storm, etc.

Besides, this idea that "heroes don't kill" is long gone at Marvel, with very few exceptions. And it's at least EXTREMELY debatable that if you kill someone attempting to commit terrorist attacks against civilians could be considered murder, specially if it's an undeniable fact the country they're in has no interest in giving them a trial.

A good analogy with the Purifiers would be if the US rather than killing Bin Laden, tried to have Pakistan judge him.

Schism problem is that it was forced, rushed and made no sense. They needed a new status quo and they didn't care how to get it.

The reason they argue makes no sense, Logan arguing about the morality of child soldiers makes no sense, refusing to have an election makes no sense. Cyclops remained in character throughout Schism, Wolverine became the supreme hypocrite. It should have been Storm, or Xavier, or anyone other than Logan.

Exactly. There was no reason to simply have an election or ask for some changes, even though, again, Cyclops didn't do anything that even the most developed nations do all the time. And once again I refer to the analogy I made earlier- faux-progressives just don't like when the minorities begin to actively fight back.

[Havok83]

...And yet NONE of the X-men condemned Logan for his actions, or thought it was a good idea to remove him for a position of leadership of the X-men or headmaster of the school. Hence, out of character.

Why would they? None of the X-men knew exactly what he told the Avengers. The only one in the Avenegrs at the time was Storm and she fled before she heard anything. To anyone there, Wolverine did not do anything wrong and once the tides turned with Scott going Dark Phoenix and Xavier dying, the X-men unified. It wasnt out of character for the remaining mutants on Utopia to go back to the school in Westchester

And again I'd like to point out that none of the characters that learned about Logan's X-force protested much, if at all, including Kitty, Beast, Storm, etc.

l give you that

Besides, this idea that "heroes don't kill" is long gone at Marvel, with very few exceptions. And it's at least EXTREMELY debatable that if you kill someone attempting to commit terrorist attacks against civilians could be considered murder, specially if it's an undeniable fact the country they're in has no interest in giving them a trial.

A good analogy with the Purifiers would be if the US rather than killing Bin Laden, tried to have Pakistan judge him.

Maybe now but it was still in effect during the Utopia era. The reason X-force was kept secret bc thats not what the X-men were about. They were created to do things that the X-men wouldnt

It is murder. X-Force wasnt just killing the Leper Queen or Selene. They were killing low ranking individuals. No questions asked. If a person was at the wrong place, then they could and did get killed. There was alot of unnecesary bloodshed dealt courtesy of them

Schism problem is that it was forced, rushed and made no sense. They needed a new status quo and they didn't care how to get it.

The reason they argue makes no sense, Logan arguing about the morality of child soldiers makes no sense, refusing to have an election makes no sense. Cyclops remained in character throughout Schism, Wolverine became the supreme hypocrite. It should have been Storm, or Xavier, or anyone other than Logan.

The catalyst for the split may not worked but the split itself made sense

[TheDeadSpace]

By everyone, who do you mean, fans or characters?

Don't know about xiyon, but for me it seems a bit like both. There's a lot of blank space in character motivations at this point. It seems like head canon is what most fans seem to be using for a lot of things these days. It's probably why the discussions feel intense at times. It's left open. I can't say I'm a fan of that.

It seems like many view the "gap: as nonessential, which it could be considering how this all ends.

Schism problem is that it was forced, rushed and made no sense. They needed a new status quo and they didn't care how to get it.

The reason they argue makes no sense, Logan arguing about the morality of child soldiers makes no sense, refusing to have an election makes no sense. Cyclops remained in character throughout Schism, Wolverine became the supreme hypocrite. It should have been Storm, or Xavier, or anyone other than Logan.

I feel like it also tried to create a problem that wasn't there. Had Scott actually tried to have the kids become soldiers and lose their childhood, then maybe. Even then, that wouldn't be something I think Scott would do. It was all too contrived. It may have all been alluded to in terms of internal conflict, but the actual argument tried too hard to make one side good and the other bad. It should have been an even split.

Yeah, but my issue is what happens when Hickman leaves. While I doubt he'll part in such bad terms, one only has to see what they did with Morrison's work after he left.

Can things really end up worse than they were the past few years? Actually...never mind...


As a side note, is wearing an X on your face the new requirement for mutant leadership?

[xiyon]

My position has always been that Utopia made sense because of its context. Dwindling numbers, continued attacks on mutants, and the very real (in-universe) possibility that mutantkind could go extinct, as established by the Endangered Species storyline. It was all about survival at that point.

Krakoa... isn't. It's now about mutant supremacy. The "I'm better than you. I will replace you. You know it. I know it. Now enjoy your twilight years."

Don't know about xiyon, but for me it seems a bit like both. There's a lot of blank space in character motivations at this point. It seems like head canon is what most fans seem to be using for a lot of things these days. It's probably why the discussions feel intense at times. It's left open. I can't say I'm a fan of that.

It seems like many view the "gap: as nonessential, which it could be considering how this all ends.

Definitely not a fan either. I recall Hickman pretty much acknowledge that he is aware there's a gap, but was iffy on whether he should tell that story, implying its better off deliberately vague. Feels more like he knows the X-Men didn't make any sense post-AvX, and he just wants to cherry-pick continuity / tell his own story with X-Men characters. Not that I can really fault him, of course.

I feel like it also tried to create a problem that wasn't there. Had Scott actually tried to have the kids become soldiers and lose their childhood, then maybe. Even then, that wouldn't be something I think Scott would do. It was all too contrived. It may have all been alluded to in terms of internal conflict, but the actual argument tried too hard to make one side good and the other bad. It should have been an even split.

I've always maintained that I wouldn't mind all the slander if Cyke actually did them i.e. it was justified. But on-panel evidence shows it wasn't.

Can things really end up worse than they were the past few years? Actually...never mind...

With JDW at the helm...? XD Thankfully, Hickman actually has some clout.

As a side note, is wearing an X on your face the new requirement for mutant leadership?

Wasn't a huge fan of the X mask at the beginning, to be honest. Even now, it still looks weird. I mean, how does it even fire an optic blast? Xavier adopting a Maker-esque X mask is hilarious, though.

I do like the rest of Cyke's suit though-- and I've been trying to look for material to turn it into a jacket / hoodie.

[gambitxremy]

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-mister-sinister-anatomy/

[gambitxremy]

Part of the cbr article

“The Man Of 1,000 Genomes


Never one to be satisfied with one when he could have two or 200 (of anything), Sinister has added to his genomes over the decades, taking samples from various mutants and using them to augment his abilities. These include Summers' DNA, from which he has the ability to project blasts of force from his hands.”

[Amacent]

Mike Mckone (@Mike2112Mckone) posted this fantastic art of Cyke earlier today.

1.jpg

[bell]

Was reading through John Carter @RedClops123's twitter thread compiling all the (editorially-mandated) shite / nonsensical storylines Cyke went through since schism, and I had no idea JDW was so triggered by Cyke. No wonder things were bad for our boy for so long-- and it took Hickman taking the reigns and creating Utopia 2.0 for some semblance of normal (and better sales) to return to the X-Books.







Sauce: https://twitter.com/RedClops123/stat...31367416508416

This man realy dislikes Cyclops, they killed him and every time Cyke would pop in a book and they talk about him was to trash Cyke. It only stop on Hickman run.

[coveredinbees]

He's far too emotional for an editor. That man is a fan.

[Gray Lensman]

He's far too emotional for an editor. That man is a fan.

A man that triggered should not be allowed to make decisions concerning the character. I'm sure he'd be a decent X-editor if Scott was under someone else's purview (and he wasn't allowed to pull a CC by having lots of Scott related conversations, flashbacks, and dream sequences).

[Omega Alpha]

A man that triggered should not be allowed to make decisions concerning the character. I'm sure he'd be a decent X-editor if Scott was under someone else's purview (and he wasn't allowed to pull a CC by having lots of Scott related conversations, flashbacks, and dream sequences).

Don't forget Emma too.