Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2020

[xiyon]

The objective sequence of events is the involuntarily annointed Phoenix Five beginning to make true improvements to the world while the Avengers, having had multiple major experiences in recent years about the follies of overwhelming power, sought to undermine them. To the Avengers' credit, they were correct and the Suzaku Quintuplet were too unstable to be trusted. To Cyclops' credit, he maintained his sanity while the other four descended into madness, until he was granted their pieces of cosmic avian and began his ascension to Dark Phoenix. Rather than the rubbish printed that served as the alternate universe version of this storyline, a much more interesting piece would involve a much longer reign for the Wingstop Rangers, with the methods used by Summers for management and the Avengers for covert operations being the focus.

Pretty much why I was on the fence until the second attack on Utopia, and everything subsequently after.

Honestly, AvX started out good. The Phoenix was coming and nuking planets en route, the Avengers went to Logan and got bad intel, and Scott was willing to gamble Hope controlling the Phoenix Force for mutant survival over the planet's survival. And then... the Avengers attacked again because they feared the potential harm the Phoenix could bring and launched another unprovoked attack, then essentially cried foul when the mutants retaliated in turn. The act made even sillier when they already knew the Phoenix Force is unstable.

Now, if they showed Namor / whoever attacking first, then their fears were completely justified and I'd think more readers would side with them. It's sort-of like the whole Cap vs Tony in the MCU, where the former insisted on maintaining the avengers aspect of their name, while the latter feared greater cosmic threats and subsequently made Ultron. The balance to both sides of the argument came with Thanos' arrival and winning Infinity War.

Heck, the Avengers tie-in even had Rulk going against orders to infiltrate Utopia and assassinate Phoenix!Cyke, and the P5 just send him back bruised but alive. Like, dude... the final battle had the Avengers attacking Utopia again with clear intent to kill, and still we're supposed to believe the Avengers were the good guys? o_O

Lastly... I can't decide whether Wingstop Rangers is a wittier name than PENIS Five. Kudos to ya.

[Gray Lensman]

Really? Thats not what happened. You are right in that he didnt try to take over the Earth; he tried to destroy it, which was far worse. People are sugarcoating his actions in here. When Scott went Dark Phoenix, he kind of lost it. Surely people died and at the very least there was mass destruction on a global scale. He was literally destroying cities. That wasnt about enforcing peace. He was raging and the planet was suffering as a result. He flat out said he was going to burn the world down and we saw him proceed to try and do just that. Thats why he was called a monster

First, I was talking about the middle of the story and you respond with the end.

Although he went dark largely in response to the fact that everyone was lining up to put him down as a monster well before he did anything monstrous - and then of course others who were possessed got accepted back just fine 'because they were possessed'. You can't have have two standards for the same damn events and expect readers to accept that.

The Avengers in that story came across as the school bully who keeps punching someone until they punch back, cry out that the nerd hit him and act all justified for pummelling the kid into the ground when that's what they had been aiming for the entire time.

I'd refer to it as the worst story Marvel had ever done, but they have published both the Endless Will and Testament of Charles Xavier, and the story where Carol Danvers leaves to have a relationship with her rapist so I really can't. It's probably the worst big event in mainline continuity - even the semi-recent Secret Wars wasn't bad, just what they used the aftermath to do (Mutant Hitler Noodle Incident).

[Havok83]

First, I was talking about the middle of the story and you respond with the end.

Although he went dark largely in response to the fact that everyone was lining up to put him down as a monster well before he did anything monstrous - and then of course others who were possessed got accepted back just fine 'because they were possessed'. You can't have have two standards for the same damn events and expect readers to accept that.

The Avengers in that story came across as the school bully who keeps punching someone until they punch back, cry out that the nerd hit him and act all justified for pummelling the kid into the ground when that's what they had been aiming for the entire time.

I'd refer to it as the worst story Marvel had ever done, but they have published both the Endless Will and Testament of Charles Xavier, and the story where Carol Danvers leaves to have a relationship with her rapist so I really can't. It's probably the worst big event in mainline continuity - even the semi-recent Secret Wars wasn't bad, just what they used the aftermath to do (Mutant Hitler Noodle Incident).

Scott being called a monster in 2019 is based on how the story ended. Thats what Rosenberg was referring to which you commented on. Scott's actions arent a time capsule frozen in the middle of the story. The end is the lasting impression that was left to the people in universe. He did become a monster in that story but people that support him ignore the heinous things he was doing at the end which resulted in him being outcast.

As far as others being accepted back just fine, thats not true. Magik and Emma were both ostracised alongside him. Both were arrested and became fugitives in Bendis' run. Colossus also became a fugitive and was on the run from SHIELD/Avengers. I didnt follow Namor so I cant speak to him. The Rasputin siblings werent accepted back to the X-men until the 8 month gap that followed Secret Wars. Emma was accepted back in IvX but screwed that up. They were all on the outs for a few years though. None of them got a free pass bc they were possessed by the PF. That plot point kind of got ignored in that 8 month gap.

The standard that was held for Scott during the post-AvX era was upheld for the others but he obviously got it the worse bc he is the only one that went on a global scale rampage, killed Xavier and then proceeded to make himself the face of a Revolution. The crimes committed among the P5 were not equal. Scott was worse.

[Gray Lensman]

Scott being called a monster in 2019 is based on how the story ended. Thats what Rosenberg was referring to which you commented on. Scott's actions arent a time capsule frozen in the middle of the story. The end is the lasting impression that was left to the people in universe. He did become a monster in that story but people that support him ignore the heinous things he was doing at the end which resulted in him being outcast.

As far as others being accepted back just fine, thats not true. Magik and Emma were both ostracised alongside him. Both were arrested and became fugitives in Bendis' run. Colossus also became a fugitive and was on the run from SHIELD/Avengers. I didnt follow Namor so I cant speak to him. The Rasputin siblings werent accepted back to the X-men until the 8 month gap that followed Secret Wars. Emma was accepted back in IvX but screwed that up. They were all on the outs for a few years though. None of them got a free pass bc they were possessed by the PF. That plot point kind of got ignored in that 8 month gap.

The standard that was held for Scott during the post-AvX era was upheld for the others but he obviously got it the worse bc he is the only one that went on a global scale rampage, killed Xavier and then proceeded to make himself the face of a Revolution. The crimes committed among the P5 were not equal. Scott was worse.

The line about 'tried to subjugate the world' which I was initially responding to was the middle of the story, and was a quote from one of the people in charge of writing things. Someone who admitted to being butthurt over Scott not being an official villain at least before Second Coming.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Scott being called a monster in 2019 is based on how the story ended. Thats what Rosenberg was referring to which you commented on. Scott's actions arent a time capsule frozen in the middle of the story. The end is the lasting impression that was left to the people in universe. He did become a monster in that story but people that support him ignore the heinous things he was doing at the end which resulted in him being outcast.

As far as others being accepted back just fine, thats not true. Magik and Emma were both ostracised alongside him. Both were arrested and became fugitives in Bendis' run. Colossus also became a fugitive and was on the run from SHIELD/Avengers. I didnt follow Namor so I cant speak to him. The Rasputin siblings werent accepted back to the X-men until the 8 month gap that followed Secret Wars. Emma was accepted back in IvX but screwed that up. They were all on the outs for a few years though. None of them got a free pass bc they were possessed by the PF. That plot point kind of got ignored in that 8 month gap.

The standard that was held for Scott during the post-AvX era was upheld for the others but he obviously got it the worse bc he is the only one that went on a global scale rampage, killed Xavier and then proceeded to make himself the face of a Revolution. The crimes committed among the P5 were not equal. Scott was worse.

What exact alternate timeline are you speaking of? Seriously.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

It's normally at this point when the editor steps in to give the facts of what happened-- but the editor at this time confessed to having a meltdown after Cyke was given a medal post-Second Coming and subsequently dropped the X-Books, so...................

"In Hickman, We Trust"?

To be fair, I don't mind the honesty of JDW and Rosenbubbles, and I laud them for it. However, it also shows their bias against Cyke (JDW) and ignorance of the circumstances (Rosenberger). I don't need them to be rabid fanboys of Cyke, but to give a fair (and, dare I say, accurate?) interpretation of what was already published. And again, if they want Cyke to be the villain, at least show him actually doing villainous things--- otherwise, the rest of the cast come off as hypocrites (as they do now) for going against him.

And now we have Hickman cherry-picking continuity, hah! XD

I dunno, I will never not find it hilarious that Editorial somehow still thinks that Cyclops needing to be brainwashed to slow down makes him the jerk whereas Wolverine needing to be brainwashed to even show up makes him the good guy, lol.

I just... what?

[Havok83]

What exact alternate timeline are you speaking of? Seriously.

Huh? Magik and Colossus were back with the main X-men in Extraordinary X-men and neither were wanted fugitives when the X-books resumed following the 8 month gap that occured after Secret Wars

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Huh? Magik and Colossus were back with the main X-men in Extraordinary X-men and neither were wanted fugitives when the X-books resumed following the 8 month gap that occured after Secret Wars

Neither of them were wanted anything BEFORE the 8 month gap. Look it up. Amazing X-Men. Bendis' Uncanny. Whatever.

So, once again, and I'm asking with the utmost seriousness, what exact alternate timeline are you speaking of?

[AJpyro]

Cable and XForce?
Bendis Uncanny?
Amazing Xmen?

Come on man.

[gambitxremy]

You have to remember cyclops was possessed by apocalypse and then a piece of the void was trapped in his mind and then became the Phoenix.
That’s a lot of stuff to go through
And then being the leader of a dying race

[Havok83]

Neither of them were wanted anything BEFORE the 8 month gap. Look it up. Amazing X-Men. Bendis' Uncanny. Whatever.

So, once again, and I'm asking with the utmost seriousness, what exact alternate timeline are you speaking of?

Colossus went into hiding after AvX to escape his crimes and was recruited by Cable in X-Force. He spent the entirety of that run as a wanted fugitive evading the Avengers

Magik was a wanted in Bendis' Uncanny run as she was part of what was considered Scott's terrorist group. She was ostracized by the core X-men (turned away by Storm and Iceman) when she appeared at the JG school with Scott and the slate was seemingly wiped clean with both of them in all regards when Extraordinary rolled around

You have to remember cyclops was possessed by apocalypse and then a piece of the void was trapped in his mind and then became the Phoenix.
That’s a lot of stuff to go through
And then being the leader of a dying race

The stuff with Apocalypse and the Void were never brought up. Apocalypse issue was dealt with in Morrison's run and the Void was ignored and forgotten as soon as he got it. It was never even hinted at as even becoming a factor that affected him later on. The stuff in AvX was purely the PF

[SpiderClops]

Tell a lie a hundred times and it becomes the truth.
-X-Editorial for the last past decade

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Colossus went into hiding after AvX to escape his crimes and was recruited by Cable in X-Force. He spent the entirety of that run as a wanted fugitive evading the Avengers

Colossus returned to the X-Men during Amazing X-Men, which took place after CaXF and before EXM. Look it up.

Magik was a wanted in Bendis' Uncanny run as she was part of what was considered Scott's terrorist group. She was ostracized by the core X-men (turned away by Storm and Iceman) when she appeared at the JG school with Scott and the slate was seemingly wiped clean with both of them in all regards when Extraordinary rolled aroundF

Colossus, Magik and Emma were there during Beast's intervention/trial/whatever and nobody had the faintest of objections.

Once again, and I hate to sound like a broken record, what exact alternate timeline are you speaking of?

[cyclops_was_right]

https://stilladoctorwhofan.tumblr.co...rite-in-the-mu

Looks like another has seen thr heinous revision of history that never made it to the books.

Haha, that's actually my Tumblr.

Hank was such an unlikable character around that time and I'm saying that while I actually like young Hank. I've just read the first few issues of Wolverine and the X-men earlier this week and that moment when Wolverine tells his team about still running X-force and he's like "I don't like it, but whatever" after giving Scott hell for establishing it at a time where it was more urgent was just so out there.

[xiyon]

I dunno, I will never not find it hilarious that Editorial somehow still thinks that Cyclops needing to be brainwashed to slow down makes him the jerk whereas Wolverine needing to be brainwashed to even show up makes him the good guy, lol.

I just... what?

Oh, I don't disagree that the writers/editors mucked up, spurred on by, as it seems, personal bias. Just because someone is honest doesn't mean they're right or, in this case, factual. But if everyone starts lying their asses off (cue "I'm a fan of Cyclops " when evidence points to the contrary), then you just know your time is wasted on a troll.

Case in point, the usual anti-Cyke troll being deliberately obtuse again in this thread. Their consistency is rather refreshing now, since it feels like the old thread again xD

Haha, that's actually my Tumblr.

Hank was such an unlikable character around that time and I'm saying that while I actually like young Hank. I've just read the first few issues of Wolverine and the X-men earlier this week and that moment when Wolverine tells his team about still running X-force and he's like "I don't like it, but whatever" after giving Scott hell for establishing it at a time where it was more urgent was just so out there.

Say it with me: "It's only wrong when Cyclops does it" XD