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  1. #451
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaebiakuya View Post
    Guys, Doom ever transmuted someone with magic? Like turn a person in a goat or a mouse?
    That's quite an unusual question. A far as I'm aware though, no, I don't think Doom uses that sort of transformative magic. Even falling back on 'super science' Doom isn't really into forced mutations. Why send a man when a Doombot will do the job just fine?

    In terms of magical ability Doom uses it more to supplement his armour's systems, energy blasts or shields etc. The other major use of magic that Doom regularly employs is various forms of clairvoyance or foresight, the ability to see the future in all its different possibilities.

  2. #452
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    That's quite an unusual question. A far as I'm aware though, no, I don't think Doom uses that sort of transformative magic. Even falling back on 'super science' Doom isn't really into forced mutations. Why send a man when a Doombot will do the job just fine?

    In terms of magical ability Doom uses it more to supplement his armour's systems, energy blasts or shields etc. The other major use of magic that Doom regularly employs is various forms of clairvoyance or foresight, the ability to see the future in all its different possibilities.
    The only thing that I can think are two cases which really didn't use magic. With Desmond Pitt, he used surgical techniques like making him part cyborg to turn him into Darkoth the Death Demon. With Sharon Ventura, the story doesn't make it clear how she was mutated, just that there was some kind of potion or gas in the cannister.

    I don't see any reason why he couldn't use the type of magic to turn someone into a toad. But maybe he considers that a parlor trick not worthy of him.

  3. #453

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    The only thing that I can think are two cases which really didn't use magic. With Desmond Pitt, he used surgical techniques like making him part cyborg to turn him into Darkoth the Death Demon. With Sharon Ventura, the story doesn't make it clear how she was mutated, just that there was some kind of potion or gas in the cannister.

    I don't see any reason why he couldn't use the type of magic to turn someone into a toad. But maybe he considers that a parlor trick not worthy of him.
    Doom obviously knows what happened after Loki turned Thor into a frog and decided he doesn't need that in his life.

  4. #454
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I don't see any reason why he couldn't use the type of magic to turn someone into a toad. But maybe he considers that a parlor trick not worthy of him.
    Perhaps, although I think we give Doom far too much credit for his mystical acumen.

    Magic at Marvel is all over the place. Back in the day magic not only had very specific rules, but taxonomies as well. You went to a necromancer for one thing, an enchanter for another, and invoker for others still. The scientific equivalent would be medical doctors. Sure, you'd have your general practitioners who knew a little about everything, but true expertise requires specialization, whether you're talking about neurologists, pediatricians, cardiothoracic surgeon, etc. We wouldn't expect a podiatrist to perform neurosurgery.

    Maybe the simple truth is that Doom can't turn people into toads (and back) because it requires a form of magic, however rudimentary, that Doom simply hasn't undertaken? Sure, he'd devour anything and everything that taught him how to blow the gates off of the nine circles of Hell, but maybe he skipped the more subtle and refined lessons that teaches mystics how to heal a diseased tree and make it regrow lost branches and leaves; or animate a pond of water, reforming each droplet into a cascading sprite; or commanding a broom to dance; or turn people into toads.

    And it's totally ok if Doom can't do these things. As a scientist he knows enough for a lifetime. As a sorcerer, likely enough for yet another lifetime. Let that be enough for once.

  5. #455
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Perhaps, although I think we give Doom far too much credit for his mystical acumen.

    Magic at Marvel is all over the place. Back in the day magic not only had very specific rules, but taxonomies as well. You went to a necromancer for one thing, an enchanter for another, and invoker for others still. The scientific equivalent would be medical doctors. Sure, you'd have your general practitioners who knew a little about everything, but true expertise requires specialization, whether you're talking about neurologists, pediatricians, cardiothoracic surgeon, etc. We wouldn't expect a podiatrist to perform neurosurgery.

    Maybe the simple truth is that Doom can't turn people into toads (and back) because it requires a form of magic, however rudimentary, that Doom simply hasn't undertaken? Sure, he'd devour anything and everything that taught him how to blow the gates off of the nine circles of Hell, but maybe he skipped the more subtle and refined lessons that teaches mystics how to heal a diseased tree and make it regrow lost branches and leaves; or animate a pond of water, reforming each droplet into a cascading sprite; or commanding a broom to dance; or turn people into toads.

    And it's totally ok if Doom can't do these things. As a scientist he knows enough for a lifetime. As a sorcerer, likely enough for yet another lifetime. Let that be enough for once.
    I think we've seen that once Doom decides to do something that he takes it to the max. But it would have to be something he considers to be of value or for a specific purpose. We've seen him develop things and then abandon them only to go on into something else (of course really it's because writer either forget or want to add something to the mythos of the character.) He even abandoned one of his greatest works, the time platform for a while. It was gathering dust in the castle he had left unoccupied in the Adirondacks On a side note, on the old days before message boards and the like, there was quite an interesting conversation on rec.arts.comics.marvel (?) that pointed out how Stan didn't remember where the time platform was located. We see it in issue #5, then in a later FF issue it's seen in Reed's lab. He had moved it there to study it. Then in MSH #20, Diablo tries to force an alliance with Doom by kidnapping Valeria and holding her hostage in his abandoned castle in upstate NY. Later we would see the time platform in his castle in Latveria. Posters used to try and fill in the blanks and figure out what would be a logical way to explain all of this.

    But I digress. What I am working by way through was to say that the turning someone into a goat or mouse would not be something Doom would be interested in. Instead of making a clock, Doom creates a time machine. I was trying to figure out a way to work in a reference to Orson Welles's cuckoo clock line in The Third Man but didn't quite make it.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    The only thing that I can think are two cases which really didn't use magic. With Desmond Pitt, he used surgical techniques like making him part cyborg to turn him into Darkoth the Death Demon. With Sharon Ventura, the story doesn't make it clear how she was mutated, just that there was some kind of potion or gas in the cannister.

    I don't see any reason why he couldn't use the type of magic to turn someone into a toad. But maybe he considers that a parlor trick not worthy of him.
    What If? #22, what if Dr. Doom was a hero he turned someone into a toad when taking over Latveria I believe.

    Edit:
    doomtoad.jpg
    Last edited by spike1228; 04-20-2020 at 11:36 AM. Reason: added image

  7. #457
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    I forgot about that! That panel looks hilarious with the big toad-man I recently bought the $1.00 True Believer reprint of that issue!

  8. #458
    Amazing Member Subby1939's Avatar
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    I don’t have much to add to Dr Doom thread I’ll share my original art done by Esad Ribic and few statues I’ve had forever . The team up of Doom and Submariner is one of Marvel legend . It was my inspiration in asking Esad to capture the classic look from FF6. Doom with his early glove and boot look to Namor wearing the red trunks . Enjoy!




  9. #459
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think we've seen that once Doom decides to do something that he takes it to the max. But it would have to be something he considers to be of value or for a specific purpose. We've seen him develop things and then abandon them only to go on into something else (of course really it's because writer either forget or want to add something to the mythos of the character.) He even abandoned one of his greatest works, the time platform for a while. It was gathering dust in the castle he had left unoccupied in the Adirondacks On a side note, on the old days before message boards and the like, there was quite an interesting conversation on rec.arts.comics.marvel (?) that pointed out how Stan didn't remember where the time platform was located. We see it in issue #5, then in a later FF issue it's seen in Reed's lab. He had moved it there to study it. Then in MSH #20, Diablo tries to force an alliance with Doom by kidnapping Valeria and holding her hostage in his abandoned castle in upstate NY. Later we would see the time platform in his castle in Latveria. Posters used to try and fill in the blanks and figure out what would be a logical way to explain all of this.

    But I digress. What I am working by way through was to say that the turning someone into a goat or mouse would not be something Doom would be interested in. Instead of making a clock, Doom creates a time machine. I was trying to figure out a way to work in a reference to Orson Welles's cuckoo clock line in The Third Man but didn't quite make it.
    Completely understandable. But you have excellent taste, Iron Maiden. Here's the quote (I also added the link where I found it):
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_third_man/quotes/

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Lime
    Harry Lime: In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed. They produced Michelangelo, da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock.
    Last edited by K7P5V; 04-20-2020 at 10:54 PM.

  10. #460
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    OH MY!

    Thank you so much for posting this. I see you have a little SVTU going on with the statues too!

    I have the Bowen busts too plus I have the Marvel Legends of each. I have the Bowen full figure Doom but not Namor. I wish I had but at that point money was in issue (got laid off) and I had run out of room in my curio cabinet





    And here are some of my Eaglemoss pieces


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  12. #462
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Can't wait to read the next issue....whenever it will be



  13. #463

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    Been on a Victor Von Doom kick lately, always owned a few trades but I've been buying a bunch on Amazon. The Byrne visionaries, the Hickman collection, SuperVillain Team-Up.

    I always enjoyed the character, always respected him. Always understood why he was Marvel's top villain; but I really now want to do a deeper read. Not just what I already read, but a lot of what I missed... especially Hickman.

    I think my favorite animated appearances by Doom were in the second season of the 1994 "Fantastic Four" and "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes". I thought he was utilized well and both times the casting director struck gold with the choice of voice actors. And, as dated as it may be, I did enjoy the Doom arc of the 1981 solo Spider-Man cartoon... loved the political tensions they played between Latveria and the United Nations and a really cool and faithful adaptation of "Fantastic Four Annual #2 when they told his origin.
    Last edited by Voices From the Eyrie; 04-21-2020 at 08:22 PM.

  14. #464
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    ^^^Speaking of dated, I will always consider "The Fantastic Mr. Frump" as my all-time favorite animated appearance for Doom...


  15. #465
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voices From the Eyrie View Post
    Been on a Victor Von Doom kick lately, always owned a few trades but I've been buying a bunch on Amazon. The Byrne visionaries, the Hickman collection, SuperVillain Team-Up.

    I always enjoyed the character, always respected him. Always understood why he was Marvel's top villain; but I really now want to do a deeper read. Not just what I already read, but a lot of what I missed... especially Hickman.

    I think my favorite animated appearances by Doom were in the second season of the 1994 "Fantastic Four" and "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes". I thought he was utilized well and both times the casting director struck gold with the choice of voice actors. And, as dated as it may be, I did enjoy the Doom arc of the 1981 solo Spider-Man cartoon... loved the political tensions they played between Latveria and the United Nations and a really cool and faithful adaptation of "Fantastic Four Annual #2 when they told his origin.
    I admit to not being much of a cartoon fan. Even when I was small, I preferred live action film. Probably an exception was Rocky and Bullwinkle because the humor was a bit more sophisticated and yet silly fun at the same time.

    But fast forward and I have to agree that the Avengers: EMH Doom appearances were light years ahead of what it was we got in the movies. Another animated version I liked was the Fantastic Four: Earth's Greatest Heroes. They used some unexpected characters from the comics like Lucia Von Bardas. I recall a pretty good adaptation of Fantastic Four #10, where Doom used they Ovoid Mind Transfer trick too.

    In your collection of trades, have you picked up Triumph and Torment yet?

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