Victor Von Doom: Dr Doom Appreciation 2020

[Biclopcicle]

My thoughts are the same....did something get mandated at one point like, let's have a really EVIL Doom for Dan Slott?

This may be the cynic in me, but I feel that with the MCU Fantastic 4ovie being announced, they wanted some Doom synergy. There is a good chance Doom will be the major antagonist of the next cycle of movies, and they don't want any moral ambiguity with the character (but that would make him such a more interesting cinematic character!)

Based on how they treated Thanos, though, that's not their schtick. The villain is just a vehicle for the heroes to face conflict

[DoomScribe]

Here's another wrinkle that came to mind overnight.

Ultimately, Doctor Doom is the hero of our universe. He saved us from the antlion. Even if it only was achieved by destroying the other universe, he would have accepted that as the price to pay to save us. So he has achieved hero status here, and only Blue Marvel (and Doom) knows different. Impossible to prove otherwise, that which no longer exists is no proof of having been destroyed.

But there were so many flaws in this storyline that some writer somewhere is going to retcon it as a fever dream or mass hypnotic psychosis or something. For instance nobody has ever actually used the ultimate nullifier, how would Doom not only know that he would survive it's use and be able to control it to the extent that both he and Blue Marvel were thrown back into their own universes, but that it wouldn't destroy multiple universes including our own? Who would even build such a device anyway? I always thought of it as a kind of joke, to have it be actually used is hugely anticlimactic. It was always the threat that embodied it's true power.

Both Iron Maiden and Biclopcicle are onto something too, that Marvel doesn't want moral ambiguity in their top tier villains. They want Villains with a capital V. That lets the moral ambiguity and moral failings of their "heroes" be more easily justified.

I'm going to mull a little more on the faults in the characterization of Doom that I've struggled with in the last three issues, but really going back even further in this series. One thing struck me more clearly though is that this is a "head bowed Doom". Doom is portrayed as struck down and beaten, and then morose about his failures, head down, bowed. Doom does not bow for any man. Even himself. Doom fails, but rises again. This is one of his core qualities. Cantwell seemed to be intent on showing a Doom that is depressed, manic, insane, sociopathic.

Side note, we have a manic, insane sociopath in real life that we will kick to the curb on Jan 20, 2021, I don't need more of this in my fictional timeline too.

Second point someone raised on twitter so I won't claim credit for it, every Doom our Doom has ever met, he's destroyed. It's canon.

ds

[Iron Maiden]

Here's another wrinkle that came to mind overnight.

Ultimately, Doctor Doom is the hero of our universe. He saved us from the antlion. Even if it only was achieved by destroying the other universe, he would have accepted that as the price to pay to save us. So he has achieved hero status here, and only Blue Marvel (and Doom) knows different. Impossible to prove otherwise, that which no longer exists is no proof of having been destroyed.

But there were so many flaws in this storyline that some writer somewhere is going to retcon it as a fever dream or mass hypnotic psychosis or something. For instance nobody has ever actually used the ultimate nullifier, how would Doom not only know that he would survive it's use and be able to control it to the extent that both he and Blue Marvel were thrown back into their own universes, but that it wouldn't destroy multiple universes including our own? Who would even build such a device anyway? I always thought of it as a kind of joke, to have it be actually used is hugely anticlimactic. It was always the threat that embodied it's true power.

Both Iron Maiden and Biclopcicle are onto something too, that Marvel doesn't want moral ambiguity in their top tier villains. They want Villains with a capital V. That lets the moral ambiguity and moral failings of their "heroes" be more easily justified.

I'm going to mull a little more on the faults in the characterization of Doom that I've struggled with in the last three issues, but really going back even further in this series. One thing struck me more clearly though is that this is a "head bowed Doom". Doom is portrayed as struck down and beaten, and then morose about his failures, head down, bowed. Doom does not bow for any man. Even himself. Doom fails, but rises again. This is one of his core qualities. Cantwell seemed to be intent on showing a Doom that is depressed, manic, insane, sociopathic.

Side note, we have a manic, insane sociopath in real life that we will kick to the curb on Jan 20, 2021, I don't need more of this in my fictional timeline too.

Second point someone raised on twitter so I won't claim credit for it, every Doom our Doom has ever met, he's destroyed. It's canon.

ds

Yeah, I was going to mention that too. I recall he killed one that was quite old and more like a patchwork of human and machine parts. He was disgusted by this and killed him.

[FRC Coazze]

There's a new Doom funko pop coming out in February:


https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Produ...Details/146095

and I wish Bigbadtoys wouldn't send me notifications because now I feel bad not buying it, I already had these two joining my Doom army on Christmas (my shelf's becoming very crowded):

Attachment 103539

Aside from that, I was reading the recent posts about issue #10 (which I still haven't read) and I was thinking: as much as I'd love to see Victor become the hero he could have been, on the other hand he wouldn't be Doom anymore. And I know I like villains because they're villains. If you redeem Doom don't you devoid him of all his charm? Also, I'm not sure Victor has the strength to take the leap, despite his arrogance he has a very low self esteem and every time he reaches the turning point and he's the chance to become a better person he keeps falling back. One thing I like about Victor is that his heroism is relative, he's a hero in his own story and by his own means. He's a hero to Latverian people. He's a villain to the rest of the world. If he were real, he would make a really fascinating historical figure, one that continues to be debated for centuries after his death.

[Iron Maiden]

I really do understand what you are saying but I think destroying a whole universe for such a petty reason was a bit too much. But I guess it's all going to be water over the bridge in the comic book world. I doubt he will face any consequences although I wouldn't be surprised if another writer does revisit this. Maybe the Living Tribunal will not be too pleased. But would Mistress Death contest it? Who knows. I think it would have been bad enough to kill Fruzina's father just because he was rejected by her in this reality.

But on a more cheerful note, thanks for posting that new Funko Zombie Doom! I have to say after a long absence of Doom Funkos, we really have hit the jackpot. Can a 2099 Doom be far behind?

[Jness]

Mentioned in another thread: Perhaps it's because I've been reading about Doom too long, but I have a *massive* difficulty believing that his reaction to seeing his alternate self do well was to kill him and annihilate the entire universe his alternate built. It seems supremely out of nowhere.

[FRC Coazze]

Sorry, your comments sparkled one of my pindaric flights. As I said, I haven't read the issue yet. I don't know what happens, but I can say it doesn't end well. I was making general considerations about Doom. I think I'm gonna buy the digital copy for once.

[Prof.Chaos]

Yeah, I was going to mention that too. I recall he killed one that was quite old and more like a patchwork of human and machine parts. He was disgusted by this and killed him.

Yep that was during Doomquest I believe there was also another time recently during Zdarsky’s Marvel Two-in-One Run. Sigh* really disappointed nothing was ever developed from that, was really looking forward to Doom tackling the new Council of Richards but guess that was a throwaway.

[Iron Maiden]

Yep that was during Doomquest I believe there was also another time recently during Zdarsky’s Marvel Two-in-One Run. Sigh* really disappointed nothing was ever developed from that, was really looking forward to Doom tackling the new Council of Richards but guess that was a throwaway.

I'd be interested in that. I can't believe that every member of the Council of Reeds are angels. Reed joined the first group unaware that one of its founding member was one of the worst. He had killed his universe's Victor by removing parts of his brain and grafting it on to his own.

[Iron Maiden]

Mentioned in another thread: Perhaps it's because I've been reading about Doom too long, but I have a *massive* difficulty believing that his reaction to seeing his alternate self do well was to kill him and annihilate the entire universe his alternate built. It seems supremely out of nowhere.

I agree. And I do think the other Victor was pushing his buttons and should have known better.

[Iron Maiden]

This is cool! Funko will also have a key chain version of the Zombie Doctor Doom!. I didn't know there was Venomized Doctor Doom keychain either! that one is already available. The zombie one comes out in February/March and will be a Gamestop exclusive.

[Lucyinthesky]

I don´t know if you already saw this but it seems Ewing has some plans for Doom next year on S.W.O.R.D

AIPT: Speaking of “Good Comics,” our next question’s about Doctor Doom (star of Christopher Cantwell’s wonderful series of the same name–which ends this month!). X-Fan Aisha said S.W.O.R.D. #1’s stinger included a pretty excellent quote from Doctor Doom that hasn’t been said yet in any other canon. Should we expect a Doom cameo in the next issue or maybe a continuing supporting role?

Al: Doom won’t be around immediately, but I know exactly when he says that and who to. And I love writing Doom–I’ve had a blast every time I’ve got my hands on the character, and my plans for him in 2021 will be no exception to that.

I liked Doom series a lot but I agree that final feels a little OC for Victor even as a villain, he´s not the kind of character who destroys for destruction itself.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm glad you agree. I liked everything about Cantwell's Doom series except that. Oh well...nothing one can do about it.


Thanks for that news about next year! Things were looking pretty bleak for any future Doom tales and I thought Marvel might be putting the character on hiatus for a while. I wonder who Doom is addressing that bit of advice to??

[Lucyinthesky]

I'm glad you agree. I liked everything about Cantwell's Doom series except that. Oh well...nothing one can do about it.


Thanks for that news about next year! Things were looking pretty bleak for any future Doom tales and I thought Marvel might be putting the character on hiatus for a while. I wonder who Doom is addressing that bit of advice to??

I am glad you liked the news

Al Ewing said he would not reveal yet who´s Doom talking with, I think he could be talking with Agent Brand, the leader of SWORD or to Magneto who´s Krakoa´s liaison with SWORD.

In the comic a team of Sword, supported by Krakoa, took something from a secret place at the center of the universe, we don´t know yet why or what for but it´s probably going to be a powerful item hence Doom´s warning about doing that.

[SuperiorIronman]

So I'm a bit behind due to the Holidays (I actually did briefly have the opportunity to catch up but what can you do right?) but from what I'm hearing I wouldn't be surprised if it was some sort of mandate. Or alternatively it was written into a corner.

Cantwell did say he had plans and I think we know what they are. So if what I'm hearing about him destroying the alternate universe and him proceeding to have a stroke the next arc is correct then it might've had a point somewhere. It would've been something meant to pay off in a later story but with Doom getting cancelled it just makes Doom look out of character since we now don't know what the follow-up was leading to. So basically something as big as this is just seen as cleaning the board rather than furthering Doom's story.

Or maybe Slott has another story about batteries IDK.