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  1. #1006
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think it sure would be a refreshing change from the Doom has a Dastardly Plot and gets defeated/thwarted by the Hero/Heroes --wash/rinse/ repeat. After all this time and after Secret Wars 2015 & ADAD as you mention, I think the character deserves more than that.
    If anybody could do an in-depth on Victor von Doom, I think Cantwell could. I think he should be given the chance.

  2. #1007
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    If anybody could do an in-depth on Victor von Doom, I think Cantwell could. I think he should be given the chance.
    I totally agree. That second arc he describes could be the plot of a full length novel.

  3. #1008
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    I hope they don't take this one away from Victor.

    Yeah, his ego is a vulnerability, but his commitment to saving humanity should have gotten the better of him.

    If Doom IS bailed out by the 'good guys' and shamed, I hope that Cap at least will clearly see Reed's manipulative side.

  4. #1009
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Ok so I know I may be late but the last issue of Doom imo was really well written with how Cantwell literally shows on page Doom's thought process and the way he has a tendency to self sabotage, you get a hint of this with the earlier arc with his "perfect future wife" scene, Doom sabotaging any chance he ever had with her (thank god honestly bc I still don't like the whole future family thing). Did I want Doom to succeed with his plan? Yes. But I can understand why he didn't.

    Is it just me or does any one else feel a disconnect with how everyone (except Zdarsky) has written Reed since Reed's return? Or am I putting too much emphasis on Hickman Reed? I feel Zdarsky's Doom 2099 really captured Doom and Reed's natures very well, with Reed still trying to see the good in Victor. Meanwhile Cantwell's Reed seems more antagonistic towards Victor. I wish we could get more issues to see how Cantwell planned on taking this to the next level. I mean Victor blamed Reed for decades after the college incident, and now he will most definitely blame Reed for what happened on the moon as well.

    That said I highly enjoyed the last issue far more than the one before it (My one main gripe with the series so far is how Doom has been treating Kristoff and Boris, ): they are his real family, not some fake future family!)
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  5. #1010
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    I liked the issue but I'm also disappointed to have Doom go back to blaming and hating Richards.
    I really don't like Reed, but i think this was Mephisto posing as Reed so Doom would get insecure, mess up, and destroy the other Earth so lady Death gets the deaths she wanted out of Doom. Or something like that, otherwise how do you tie that loose end.

  6. #1011
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renacuajo2 View Post
    I liked the issue but I'm also disappointed to have Doom go back to blaming and hating Richards.
    I really don't like Reed, but i think this was Mephisto posing as Reed so Doom would get insecure, mess up, and destroy the other Earth so lady Death gets the deaths she wanted out of Doom. Or something like that, otherwise how do you tie that loose end.
    Hello there and welcome to the discussion!

    Now that is an interesting scenario but as we close in on the last issue (Argghhh!) my suspicion is that the debt owed to Mistress Death will be left unaddressed. It seems like there is so much ground to cover in that last issue. I hope it does end up being one of those "Imaginary Tales" like DC used to do. Or Doom wakes up and declares to Boris "By the Seven Devils ...I had the most disturbing dream last night!"

  7. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcoijoi View Post
    I hope they don't take this one away from Victor.

    Yeah, his ego is a vulnerability, but his commitment to saving humanity should have gotten the better of him.

    If Doom IS bailed out by the 'good guys' and shamed, I hope that Cap at least will clearly see Reed's manipulative side.
    I could see that happening because you really got the sense that Cap was on to Reed and suspected he was more than a little annoyed that Victor was up there cleaning up his mess.

  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Ok so I know I may be late but the last issue of Doom imo was really well written with how Cantwell literally shows on page Doom's thought process and the way he has a tendency to self sabotage, you get a hint of this with the earlier arc with his "perfect future wife" scene, Doom sabotaging any chance he ever had with her (thank god honestly bc I still don't like the whole future family thing). Did I want Doom to succeed with his plan? Yes. But I can understand why he didn't.

    Is it just me or does any one else feel a disconnect with how everyone (except Zdarsky) has written Reed since Reed's return? Or am I putting too much emphasis on Hickman Reed? I feel Zdarsky's Doom 2099 really captured Doom and Reed's natures very well, with Reed still trying to see the good in Victor. Meanwhile Cantwell's Reed seems more antagonistic towards Victor. I wish we could get more issues to see how Cantwell planned on taking this to the next level. I mean Victor blamed Reed for decades after the college incident, and now he will most definitely blame Reed for what happened on the moon as well.

    That said I highly enjoyed the last issue far more than the one before it (My one main gripe with the series so far is how Doom has been treating Kristoff and Boris, ): they are his real family, not some fake future family!)
    That is one of my gripes too. Cantwell did make up for Kristoff's treatment in making him take charge of Symkaria. But considering the state Doom left it in that might be more of a booby prize. Let's hope Kristoff is successful in rebuilding a decimated Symkaria. At least replace the lifestock that got killed

    I like Zora but I don't think she should be closer to Doom than Kristoff. It's not like he hasn't helped out before....he was there fighting alongside when the Map Makers attacked and he trusted him to act as regent when Doom stepped down after he received brain damage or perhaps severe concussion from getting hit by the Red She Hulk.

  9. #1014
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    That is one of my gripes too. Cantwell did make up for Kristoff's treatment in making him take charge of Symkaria. But considering the state Doom left it in that might be more of a booby prize. Let's hope Kristoff is successful in rebuilding a decimated Symkaria. At least replace the lifestock that got killed

    I like Zora but I don't think she should be closer to Doom than Kristoff. It's not like he hasn't helped out before....he was there fighting alongside when the Map Makers attacked and he trusted him to act as regent when Doom stepped down after he received brain damage or perhaps severe concussion from getting hit by the Red She Hulk.
    Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Zora, especially when she basically is now Doom's daughter? Doom took in and raised Kristoff, not all of it was good but it's been clear that Kristoff is the Son of Doom and also the heir of Latveria. I'm just tired of seeing Kristoff shoved off to the side when we should be including him more with Doom storylines, what was the point of aging Kristoff up when he used to be Franklin's age just to shove him off into limbo again, I feel Hickman would have had more plans for Kristoff and Doom if he ever got on another FF book.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Zora, especially when she basically is now Doom's daughter? Doom took in and raised Kristoff, not all of it was good but it's been clear that Kristoff is the Son of Doom and also the heir of Latveria. I'm just tired of seeing Kristoff shoved off to the side when we should be including him more with Doom storylines, what was the point of aging Kristoff up when he used to be Franklin's age just to shove him off into limbo again, I feel Hickman would have had more plans for Kristoff and Doom if he ever got on another FF book.
    It's too bad that Hickman is wrapped up in the X-Men but that was after what he read the most in his younger days as just a fan. I did get a chance to talk to him in the early stages of his Marvel career when he was at what I believe was the first C2E2 at the original McCormick Place in Chicago. They use that for smaller events. Of course now C2E2 is in the main pavillion and draws about nearly 100,000 over the weekend run. I've talked to him (briefly) at a couple more cons. I was there when they announced his X-Men run. Of course he didn't tell me that part! But the first time I met him C2E2 as just getting started and I recall the storyline where Nathaniel travels to past of Reed, Ben and Victor's in their college days. He needs their help to defeat the evil Nathaniel from another reality in the Great Hunt. I said to him that I was glad to see the return of some of the characters from Byrne's run, which at the point in time nobody was really using. I told him I hoped to see Kristoff return too! Now I can't say that I put that idea in his head. Knowing the way he works, he probably had it planned all along. Several years later when the convention moved to the larger building due to increased attendance, I brought with me when one of those blank covers and hoped that he would put something on it for me. He surprised me by doing a Doom sketch! He also posed for a photo with me but I am but shy about posting a photo here


  11. #1016
    Incredible Member DoomScribe's Avatar
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    How cool is that sketch from Hickman! I think JH is definitely one of the modern writers who gets Doom best, and is faithful to his pantheon.

    The thing about new writers is that they always seem to feel the need to introduce new characters instead of using existing ones, so we get Zora instead of Kristoff. Not all writers do that but it is far more exciting for the fans to see old characters used in new and interesting ways, or even better is fleshing out a minor character into a major new role. One of the reasons Busiek's Thunderbolts was such a delight. But that takes work - research or the risk of fan anger. Busiek has an encyclopedic knowledge of comic books though, so he's got an innate advantage. Other writers I worry take too much knowledge from cartoons or video games. This is where the editors have to do their job. Not all writers should be given carte blanche for their previous work.

    Also, if you haven't already catch 616 on Disney plus if you can. Documentary series that looks behind the curtain of Marvel comics. It's pretty good so far.
    "Because ... I am Doom
    ... What Gods dare stand against me?"


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  12. #1017
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    How cool is that sketch from Hickman! I think JH is definitely one of the modern writers who gets Doom best, and is faithful to his pantheon.

    The thing about new writers is that they always seem to feel the need to introduce new characters instead of using existing ones, so we get Zora instead of Kristoff. Not all writers do that but it is far more exciting for the fans to see old characters used in new and interesting ways, or even better is fleshing out a minor character into a major new role. One of the reasons Busiek's Thunderbolts was such a delight. But that takes work - research or the risk of fan anger. Busiek has an encyclopedic knowledge of comic books though, so he's got an innate advantage. Other writers I worry take too much knowledge from cartoons or video games. This is where the editors have to do their job. Not all writers should be given carte blanche for their previous work.

    Also, if you haven't already catch 616 on Disney plus if you can. Documentary series that looks behind the curtain of Marvel comics. It's pretty good so far.
    I'm waiting to see if they offer a free trial again. I do want to see WandaVision. I'm kind of annoyed with the trend of buying all these streaming services, etc.

    Zora was created by Dan Slott in his Herald of Doom arc so she has been around a couple of years now. It is true that Zora did get a lot of face time in this series. And I do get tired of Kristoff being neglected or just getting "wallpaper" appearances lately. I want to see if the current state of affairs hold and Symkaria stays a Latveria satellite, province or whatever. I'd like to see Kristoff make a go of rebuilding it.

    I have to say HIckman is one of my favorite Doom "biographers" and I keep hoping he will have a guest spot in his X-Men. Cantwell does get most of his research from the comics themselves according to his tweets. I like how he brings a fresh POV to the character. A character like Doom has the fingerprints of many authors and I think I will add him to my list of top writers.

    On another note, getting sales data on the comics is still pretty sporadic since the pandemic began but I did find some inkling of how Doctor Doom series is doing in digital sales. Of course, none of the companies give out the numbers. Diamond Distributors just gives rankings based on how the a comic's sales stack up to Batman since it is deemed to be a consistent seller. Digital sales number aren't given out as far as I can see. One of the major outlets is Comixology and they do publish the top titles of a particular week. None of it is archived like Diamond does. The best I could come up with is a screen cap of this week's listing of top sellers. So according to this, Doctor Doom #9 came in as #21 in a tough week. You have Hickman's X-Men at #1 and a slew of Batman family titles among that group along with Amazing Spider-Man, Daredevil, etc.

    If you go to the Comixology home page, there is a list on the lower right section that has the week's top 10 with a link to View More.


  13. #1018
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    It's too bad that Hickman is wrapped up in the X-Men but that was after what he read the most in his younger days as just a fan. I did get a chance to talk to him in the early stages of his Marvel career when he was at what I believe was the first C2E2 at the original McCormick Place in Chicago. They use that for smaller events. Of course now C2E2 is in the main pavillion and draws about nearly 100,000 over the weekend run. I've talked to him (briefly) at a couple more cons. I was there when they announced his X-Men run. Of course he didn't tell me that part! But the first time I met him C2E2 as just getting started and I recall the storyline where Nathaniel travels to past of Reed, Ben and Victor's in their college days. He needs their help to defeat the evil Nathaniel from another reality in the Great Hunt. I said to him that I was glad to see the return of some of the characters from Byrne's run, which at the point in time nobody was really using. I told him I hoped to see Kristoff return too! Now I can't say that I put that idea in his head. Knowing the way he works, he probably had it planned all along. Several years later when the convention moved to the larger building due to increased attendance, I brought with me when one of those blank covers and hoped that he would put something on it for me. He surprised me by doing a Doom sketch! He also posed for a photo with me but I am but shy about posting a photo here

    What an awesome sketch! That's a cool story, and I hope Hickman gets a chance at Doom again, even for just a comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    How cool is that sketch from Hickman! I think JH is definitely one of the modern writers who gets Doom best, and is faithful to his pantheon.

    The thing about new writers is that they always seem to feel the need to introduce new characters instead of using existing ones, so we get Zora instead of Kristoff. Not all writers do that but it is far more exciting for the fans to see old characters used in new and interesting ways, or even better is fleshing out a minor character into a major new role. One of the reasons Busiek's Thunderbolts was such a delight. But that takes work - research or the risk of fan anger. Busiek has an encyclopedic knowledge of comic books though, so he's got an innate advantage. Other writers I worry take too much knowledge from cartoons or video games. This is where the editors have to do their job. Not all writers should be given carte blanche for their previous work.

    Also, if you haven't already catch 616 on Disney plus if you can. Documentary series that looks behind the curtain of Marvel comics. It's pretty good so far.
    I'm SO EXCITED for the Namor Mini series Busiek is writing this December. This is going to be the first time I get to read along with a Namor series as it's happening. I was so happy to see who was the writer because as you said Busiek as so much knowledge of the characters and usually does them justice. Has he ever written Doom?

    I keep hoping someone someday will revive the Super Villain Team Up, give me Namor and Doom adventures!
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  14. #1019
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    What an awesome sketch! That's a cool story, and I hope Hickman gets a chance at Doom again, even for just a comic.



    I'm SO EXCITED for the Namor Mini series Busiek is writing this December. This is going to be the first time I get to read along with a Namor series as it's happening. I was so happy to see who was the writer because as you said Busiek as so much knowledge of the characters and usually does them justice. Has he ever written Doom?

    I keep hoping someone someday will revive the Super Villain Team Up, give me Namor and Doom adventures!
    I will be getting that Namor series myself. As for Busiek and Doom, I really can't remember any time that Busiek wrote Doom, at least not as part of a major appearance. The only thing I remember offhand is that he briefly goes into the tangled relationship between Kang and Doom in Avengers Forever #9.

    I was hoping that one day Namor would be part of a major arc if the Doctor Doom series had remained an ongoing. They really need to revisit the SVTU history between them. I wasn't satisfied with how things were left between them in New Avengers and wanted to see them have a reteaming at some point. Then Namor got all wrapped up in the blood feud with T'Challa, another disappointing development IMO

  15. #1020
    Incredible Member DoomScribe's Avatar
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    HARROWING OF DOOM -

    Short review - get it! Read it! It's terrific. I've not even finished it yet (almost - I've had to stop to do chores and sleep). Arrived on Saturday afternoon and went halfway before bed then today.

    The author has a good handle on Doom history, his temperament, and Latveria. He seems like he leans hard into magical realms, but doesn't dismiss Doom's aptitude for technology either. There are worthy supporting characters. The language is adult - this isn't a kid's book - without being salacious. Doom is used just the right amount.

    I bought this knowing that I would likely be disappointed. I am not. I'm very much impressed. No heroes needed, Doom carries the book with ease. How I wish other writers could do this.

    I'll let you know more when I finish.
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