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  1. #151
    Spectacular Member Coatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    Exactly. I disagree with the implication that Doom knows that he's evil. I think Doom has a much more pragmatic view, less mired in the conventional black and white of comic book morality. I think that Doom has always believed (even if he's knowingly deluded himself) that he is doing the right thing. Except for his sometimes frequent indulgence into revenge seeking with the Richards clan, Doom's initial goal of ruling the world was based on an assessment that he was the best person for the job and the world would be a better place if he did.
    Well I think that at some level he knows and admits that he has done evil things, yes at the end his goal can be "Good" but the means have been brutal, I think that while he is a guy who thinks that "The end will justify the means" he can be full of guilty about some of the things he has done across the years.

    Yes he can excuse himself in public or when confronted saying that things as condemning the soul of Valeria to the pits of hell was "necessary" to him to get more power, but I think that deep inside he feels a massive guilty about things like that.

    Even more I remember a run when he worked with the princess Python and Selene to get a wish. While all the people thought that he would want to destroy Reed Richards , his wish was actually just stop feeling guilty about the things he has done since he sees his guilt as his worst enemy.
    "And you eater of world. May you taste our righteous fire, And choke on it. For my planet's sake, I spit my last breath at thee"

  2. #152
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    Exactly. The only worry I have with Cantwell is that he seems to historically have a focus on the darkness and anger in his characters, and this shows in his Doctor Doom in ways that others haven't portrayed. My only complaint is that his Doom has sometimes been too common (too plebeian) in his anger and violence, and less cunning or planning. But he's had Doom on the run since the beginning so let's see how that turns. While Cantwell has been careful not to cross over into the nefarious, mustache twirling territory (something other writers embrace all too willingly), I disagree with the implication that Doom knows that he's evil. I think Doom has a much more pragmatic view, less mired in the conventional black and white of comic book morality. I think that Doom has always believed (even if he's knowingly deluded himself) that he is doing the right thing. The redemption that Doom has obtained is only that which we on the outside place upon him, not what Doom has tried to reach as an end goal. Except for his sometimes frequent indulgence into revenge seeking with the Richards clan, Doom's initial goal of ruling the world was based on an assessment that he was the best person for the job and the world would be a better place if he did.

    Which interestingly enough, may be an underlying theme in the Doctor Doom series. So, I still have to give Cantwell props. And of course I concur ... Triumph and Torment is required reading for any Doom writer.
    I don't know if Doom thinks of himself as evil these days but there were some signs of despair in between his scenes of Silver Age villainy. IMO Doom didn't think himself worthy of the redemption he so desperately sought for his mother. But he will not beg for forgiveness or perform any self flagellation to punish himself. Perhaps he does punish himself in these fights with the heroes, like when Ben defeats him in FF #39 and damages his hands.

    There was another element to Cantwell's writing, which quite honestly I am not familiar with, that he mentioned in a tweet about issue #4 This was concerning the dialogue that occurs over the page of Doom fighting his way through A.I.M. s NYC base which I'm sure confused more readers than just me.



    Theodicy is a term I hadn't heard before but I think we all have heard or read discussions around the question of "why does God permit evil?". But in the conversation M.O.D.O.K (and I could be wrong about this) keeps telling Doom that he is God. I don't think he means that in the universal sense. Maybe M.O.D.O.K means Doom in charge of his destiny and it is up to him to choose the path to make this perfect world come to pass. Doom has been told by Kang that if he had died in Taskmaster's assassination attempt then civilization would completely collapse within 13 years.

    But before all this happens, he is told that he will be kept in solitary confinement for many years and emerge with this vision for a better world. So this Doom does do some penance for his past sins before he embarks on this new path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatl View Post
    Well I think that at some level he knows and admits that he has done evil things, yes at the end his goal can be "Good" but the means have been brutal, I think that while he is a guy who thinks that "The end will justify the means" he can be full of guilty about some of the things he has done across the years.

    Yes he can excuse himself in public or when confronted saying that things as condemning the soul of Valeria to the pits of hell was "necessary" to him to get more power, but I think that deep inside he feels a massive guilty about things like that.

    Even more I remember a run when he worked with the princess Python and Selene to get a wish. While all the people thought that he would want to destroy Reed Richards , his wish was actually just stop feeling guilty about the things he has done since he sees his guilt as his worst enemy.
    Yes, I read that story too and in some respects I was disappointed by his wish but I can definitely see him attempting that. I am betting that the spell didn't work and he still does bury his feelings of guilt. I have to go back to Bendis's decision to have Doom make a serious attempt at changing in Infamous Iron Man. I really like that he was trying to do heroic things but his motivation was still not "pure" as was brought out in his explantation to Amara. I was disappointed that his time as Infamous Iron Man ends with his face being damaged again in Invincible Iron Man #600. I suppose the fates do like to make mischief and wag their fingers to say "No, you are not ready for this yet". He still hasn't dealt with his flaws, mainly admitting to having any. And there is that big blind spot he has about the Fantastic Four clan as Doomscribe says. But I think Slott didn't really follow up properly on Doom's time as Infamous Iron Man. He spent a lot of time sheparding Ben and Johnny. He saved Ben from that doppleganger of his Mother created by Mephisto and gifted Ben with a condo in Europe

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    Ha ha!

    To be honest I'm more used with theodicy than with "the raid" (?). I still need to check what that last part is referring to btw!

    That issue of the current Doom series was really great and I have to praise the writer for his ambitious work. The interview was a great read. Thanks for posting it!
    - To Tammy and the Blue Rose !

  4. #154
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Look, Abe! The French cover for the collection of Fantastic Four 1234!


    Great, Rev!

    To know more about the guy who did it, a french link : https://m.bedetheque.com/auteur-184-...ram-Denis.html
    - To Tammy and the Blue Rose !

  5. #155
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    Ha ha!

    To be honest I'm more used with theodicy than with "the raid" (?). I still need to check what that last part is referring to btw!

    That issue of the current Doom series was really great and I have to praise the writer for his ambitious work. The interview was a great read. Thanks for posting it!
    You are hitting right on the nose....this is an ambitious work when it could have been a by the numbers Doom like Slott did. And I suppose some would be happy with that. In that interview I linked to Cantwell talked about all the effort he put into his pitch to Tom Brevoort. It impressed Brevoort enough that he must have given the green light to the series pretty quickly. Cantwell's Doctor Doom short story in a War Scrolls tie in came out in June 2019. If anyone here didn't read it I suggest you check it out.



  6. #156
    "The law of victory is set!" - Sento Kiryu/Kamen Rider Build
    "I'll clear this even if it means using continues!" - Kuroto Dan/Kamen Rider Gemm
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  7. #157
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Nice! I like the FF logo there too... though I thought the FF were already in the game?
    ***Namor75 Celebration Threads***

    IMPERIUS REX FOREVER

  8. #158
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Thanks! So that's where that is from. I had seen that on the internet somewhere but it wasn't labeled.
    Sadly, like too much on the internets.



    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    Ha ha!

    To be honest I'm more used with theodicy than with "the raid" (?). I still need to check what that last part is referring to btw!

    That issue of the current Doom series was really great and I have to praise the writer for his ambitious work. The interview was a great read. Thanks for posting it!
    The Raid is an amazing action movie, from Indonesia. Police go into a multi floor housing unit to take out a drug lord, who has taken it over. It's like non-stop fighting. Had Iko Uwais and
    Joe Taslim in it, just kicking butt everywhere.



    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    Great, Rev!

    To know more about the guy who did it, a french link : https://m.bedetheque.com/auteur-184-...ram-Denis.html
    Oh, wait. I've seen this guys work before. Universal War!

    Thanks for the link.
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  9. #159
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Noooo! You can't have Lee Pace for Doom! Don't cover up, again! He'd be perfect for Namor.
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  10. #160
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Since I don't think I've seen anything with Lee Pace, I'm Ok if you take him for Namor.


    I really like the details on the armor. It reminds me of the belt and other details of the armor for the Marvel Legends Doom. Seems like artists and modelers have a thing for Doom and buckles lately

  11. #161
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    I'm (very) late to this party. Happy 2020 to my Third Favorite Comic Book Villian and Ninth Favorite Comic Book Character of all time. May this year bring great things for Victor.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  12. #162
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    Hi Guys, hoping you can help a newbie here. I've been a Doom fan for forever, and I'm currently researching a tattoo. I remember seeing an image of Doom very recently where he was absolutely battered after a fight, mask all damaged, blood coming out of one of the eye-holes etc. but for the life of me I cannot find it now or remember which book it was in. I've checked Savage Avengers, ASM, the 2099 nonsense, issues 1-4 of the solo book and at this point it's like an itch I can't scratch. Anyone know where it might have been? Where else has Victor shown up recently?

    (Also, before I start researching in my back catalog, if anyone else has any images or suggestions for a battle damaged Doom I'd sure appreciate it!)

  13. #163
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Ah, I think you must mean the classic Secret Wars (1984-85) #10. Now there's a challenge for a tattoo artist!


    Recently, artist Mike Zeck did a recolor of the cover and it does have some better tones. It is below the first image. And it's inked by Terry Austin




  14. #164
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Time for a Monday evening edition of Unboxing Funko's Fantastic Four Mystery Minis! My order came in today for 4 more boxes. This time it is a royal event with Doctor Doom and Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner attending. There were a couple of gate crashers but the robot has them rounded up





    And now for the first unboxing of the night

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    And it's Susan Richards, the Invisible Woman!




    And now moving on to the second unboxing

    *
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    *
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    HOLY HANNAH! It's another THING! They're starting to form a small army. Doom and Namor are not pleased with this development


  15. #165
    Fantastic Member DoomScribe's Avatar
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    Updated the Den of Madness collection
    2020-01-27 17.35.39.jpg2020-01-27 17.37.49.jpg2020-01-27 17.39.27.jpg

    This is only three of the five curios. Sorry about the horizontal orientation.
    "Because ... I am Doom
    ... What Gods dare stand against me?"


    Posting from the dungeon of Castle Doom, Latveria

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