Victor Von Doom: Dr Doom Appreciation 2020

[ImperiusWrecked]

That is ....hot



That is so weird. I am starting to see the Fantastic Four wave show up more now. Just today I saw all of them except Susan at a Target store I went to. I did see her at another Gamestop. So far she seems to be the one that stores don't have. I have seen a lot more Doom figures these past few weeks. I think the problem is that most stores, some of which have limited space, tend to just order one of each figure. On a side note, I really wish they would come out with a classic She Hulk and in her FF uniform. Although I would like the purple one too, a shout out to cousin Bruce. I really don't like the dumbed down, "savage" She Hulk that we see these days.

I wish that that Cassie and Kristoff meet up too. It will be an interesting one since Cassie was killed in a fight with Doom in The Children's Crusade. I often wonder about these resurrected heroes....do they remember being dead? Were they in Limbo or something. Funny how any conversation about here never came up between Victor and Kristoff...it would be soooo awkward

I was able to find some back issues of A-Next where Cassie and Kristoff were reunited too. I have few issues of Fantastic Five but I don't think I have that one.

From A-Next

Awesome scans! And I don't know how or when Cassie came back but I would like to see any repercussions between Kristoff/Cassie and Victor.

[Iron Maiden]

Awesome scans! And I don't know how or when Cassie came back but I would like to see any repercussions between Kristoff/Cassie and Victor.

Cassie came back in a one shot issue with Doom during the Axis event in Avengers World. IIRC Nick Spencer wrote this. I think his characterization of Cassie being killed "in cold blood" to be off. There was a big fight on the grounds of Avengers Mansion. Shots taken back and forth. In fact all the heroes ganged up on Doom and made the first strike.

Doom was able to capture some of the power of the Scarlet Witch but could only choose one task to perform

[Kintor]

Some (spoiler free) thoughts on the latest.

Doctor Doom #6
This might just be my favourite issue of the book so far. Doom and Kang really make a great team and deadpan comedy duo. Heaps of collateral damage, involving people who didn't deserve to get hurt, but the whole story just has such a jovial atmosphere. Even the shady arms dealer was a laidback guy wearing a Hawaiian shirt. What strange times we find ourselves in with Marvel, all the heroes are humourless moral busybodies while Doom couldn't give a **** and seems the happiest he's been in years.

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks Kintor. Will be going later to the LCS when it opens. I think I will start a separate thread on this so feel free to add stuff there too!


Link to spoiler/review thread

[Coatl]

lol, I am still hoping for Kristoff to meet up with Cassie Lang, their interactions as kids was just so cute and he definitely learned how to be polite from Victor XD



I don't know where Cassie is these days but I think she's been aged up to around Kristoff current age too, maybe 18-20ish?

edit: also they were together in Fantastic Five!

OMG!!! I also loved them together. I think in part because that relationship had the plus to annoy both of their parents, not Scott no Doom would be that happy about get related even if just by marriage, neither would like to have to share their children or their grandchildren with such people. But at same time because Kristoff was a too serious child back then who frequently acted as an little adult, and I thought that being around Cassandra used to help him to relax and learn how a child is supposed to act. While Cass learn how lucky she was to have a warm family who even if weren't together loved her dearly. I remember fondly an issue when Kristoff helps Cassie with her homework and she talks to him about the problems of one of her classmates, she even teach him some vocabulary even if was an insult directed to him.

About Cass age the last time I checked, she was supposed to be 16 after her resurrection. But I think, has passed at least a year or maybe 2 after that (comic time). Kristoff was said to be year older but poor Kristoff get aged up so fast that I not longer know if that would be considered.

Cassie came back in a one shot issue with Doom during the Axis event in Avengers World. IIRC Nick Spencer wrote this. I think his characterization of Cassie being killed "in cold blood" to be off. There was a big fight on the grounds of Avengers Mansion. Shots taken back and forth. In fact all the heroes ganged up on Doom and made the first strike.

Well certainly there were several factors (as Cassie being a giant woman trying to crush him), but still Cassie's murder was done full of spite, and the fact that she gets to die a moment before of getting her father back was sad. I think that was something done at the heat of the moment, after being furious for being robbed the force of Scarlet Witch and after that when he got calmer he rejected it.

And since as has been said Cassie is the only know crush of Kristoff, I wonder if her murder had any impact in the Kristoff/Doom relationship, maybe he had something to say about it and that added weight to the guilt he felt about killing a girl.

Talking about Kristoff I wonder if he is supposed to take a role in the current Doom rum, because even when the author has hinted his participation, every issue has Doom forgetting his existence, he is never mentioned when they talk about who cant take the regency of Latveria, Doom kept dreaming of a family as if Kristoff never existed and now when asked if he had a family he keeps babbling about his imaginary sons instead of remember his real one. Truly he is looking neglecting at this point.

That give me another theory. Maybe Kristoff is the one behind those visions of a future where Doom is happy but never going to get (since today Fucsina seems to hate him) just to spite him after years of neglecting and getting utopias were he is never included (but Valeria and Franklin are).

[Iron Maiden]

OMG!!! I also loved them together. I think in part because that relationship had the plus to annoy both of their parents, not Scott no Doom would be that happy about get related even if just by marriage, neither would like to have to share their children or their grandchildren with such people. But at same time because Kristoff was a too serious child back then who frequently acted as an little adult, and I thought that being around Cassandra used to help him to relax and learn how a child is supposed to act. While Cass learn how lucky she was to have a warm family who even if weren't together loved her dearly. I remember fondly an issue when Kristoff helps Cassie with her homework and she talks to him about the problems of one of her classmates, she even teach him some vocabulary even if was an insult directed to him.

About Cass age the last time I checked, she was supposed to be 16 after her resurrection. But I think, has passed at least a year or maybe 2 after that (comic time). Kristoff was said to be year older but poor Kristoff get aged up so fast that I not longer know if that would be considered.

Yes, it's very hard to figure out Kristoff and Cassie's age but it always seemed like they were very close to the same age. Once he was out of his Doom armor, Kristoff could be seen at his normal size. Here 's that scene where they suspect their companion Donny is being abused by someone.



This small subplot gets resolved very quickly in the last FF issue before they would all fight Onslaught. Kang teleports into Four Freedoms Plaza to attack but he is merely a projections of some kind. Kristoff immediately defends Cassie from the danger. It's sad that she never mentions him at all these days

Well certainly there were several factors (as Cassie being a giant woman trying to crush him), but still Cassie's murder was done full of spite, and the fact that she gets to die a moment before of getting her father back was sad. I think that was something done at the heat of the moment, after being furious for being robbed the force of Scarlet Witch and after that when he got calmer he rejected it.

And since as has been said Cassie is the only know crush of Kristoff, I wonder if her murder had any impact in the Kristoff/Doom relationship, maybe he had something to say about it and that added weight to the guilt he felt about killing a girl.

Talking about Kristoff I wonder if he is supposed to take a role in the current Doom rum, because even when the author has hinted his participation, every issue has Doom forgetting his existence, he is never mentioned when they talk about who cant take the regency of Latveria, Doom kept dreaming of a family as if Kristoff never existed and now when asked if he had a family he keeps babbling about his imaginary sons instead of remember his real one. Truly he is looking neglecting at this point.

That give me another theory. Maybe Kristoff is the one behind those visions of a future where Doom is happy but never going to get (since today Fucsina seems to hate him) just to spite him after years of neglecting and getting utopias were he is never included (but Valeria and Franklin are).

I don't think Kristoff would have that kind of power but that is an interesting idea. I wish Hickman had included Kristoff in Secret Wars but that was not the story he wanted to tell...he wanted to bring out Doom's envy for Reed's normal family life.

I wonder if Amara has had her baby by now? Then that would be another child of Doom that will not have much contact with the father.

[Coatl]

Yes, it's very hard to figure out Kristoff and Cassie's age but it always seemed like they were very close to the same age. Once he was out of his Doom armor, Kristoff could be seen at his normal size. Here 's that scene where they suspect their companion Donny is being abused by someone.

This small subplot gets resolved very quickly in the last FF issue before they would all fight Onslaught. Kang teleports into Four Freedoms Plaza to attack but he is merely a projections of some kind. Kristoff immediately defends Cassie from the danger. It's sad that she never mentions him at all these days

Ho, yes that was exactly what I was talking about, thank you. I used to have the issue but having to move constantly there are some things that get lost, sadly my collection was one of those nowadays I avoid to buy but more stuff for the same reasons.

I thought back then that the children solving problems themselves and getting subplots were a nice touch in the middle of the intergalactic problems, also was nice that seeing Kristoff around other children since as has been mentioned he tended to be treated too much as an adult

And of course is sad seeing that not even Cassi seems to remember him, when they were so fond of each other back then.

About their ages is mentioned that they are one year apart.

8e2051edd90641f743ddf8e9c4610584.jpg

Of course that information only has sense if the writers remember or cares about it.

I don't think Kristoff would have that kind of power but that is an interesting idea. I wish Hickman had included Kristoff in Secret Wars but that was not the story he wanted to tell...he wanted to bring out Doom's envy for Reed's normal family life.
I wonder if Amara has had her baby by now? Then that would be another child of Doom that will not have much contact with the father.

Well Kristoff is supposed to know a bit of magic, since he had stolen his father books and self taught when younger, but after he uses his powers against the F4 never is mentioned again and whe can't see how much magic he knows. I suppose that he should know at least as much magic as Doom, before he went to America, since that information was downloaded to his brain as a child. I wish to think that he didn't stopped there and went to learn some more eventually, after all he lived with one of the most powerful sorceress in the earth and has one of the biggest libraries available of course that's just a head canon. The few appearances of Kristoff after that barely shows any of their skills.

About Amara well, Maybe, I'm not sure, seems to me that only has passed some months after Doom return as Latverian ruler, anyway IMO that's just another reason to roll my eyes when he is craving for another woman and a family. I'm like, what about the woman who don't hate you, and you get pregnant some months ago?

But at same time I have to add that I liked the couple he did with Morgana and it's a shame that he never gets any interaction with Caroline Le Fay since she is als his daughter.

[Kintor]

It seems we will soon have a second Doom book this year. Just not in the way you'd expect.

DOMINO, DOCTOR DOOM, More Lead New MARVEL Prose Line Debuting in 2020
Four of the titles scheduled to debut are: Domino: Strays, Doctor Doom: The Harrowing of Doom, Legends of Asgard: The Head of Mimir, and Legends of Asgard: The Sword of Surtur.

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks for posting that Kintor. I had just come across that news myself. I love some of the prose works I have featuring Doom. There was a trilogy some years back where he was mostly in the background making some grand plan until the last volume. It was called Doom's Day and Book One was called Rampage, featuring Spider-Man and the Hulk. Book Two I must have lost when I moved. Book Three was called Wreckage and featured Spidey again with the Fantastic Four. The writing was shared among Eric Fein & Pierce Askegren on Book one with Danny Fingeroth and Eric Fein on Book Three. He was also in a She Hulk paperback novel by Marta Acosta & Doomgate featuring the FF and Doom written by Jeffrey Lang. Another book I lost somehow when moving was called Chaos Engine and in that one he was married to Storm and possessed the Cosmic Cube. This was a trilogy also and the other two books featured the Red Skull and Magneto as the villains.
.

[Iron Maiden]

Ho, yes that was exactly what I was talking about, thank you. I used to have the issue but having to move constantly there are some things that get lost, sadly my collection was one of those nowadays I avoid to buy but more stuff for the same reasons.

I thought back then that the children solving problems themselves and getting subplots were a nice touch in the middle of the intergalactic problems, also was nice that seeing Kristoff around other children since as has been mentioned he tended to be treated too much as an adult

And of course is sad seeing that not even Cassi seems to remember him, when they were so fond of each other back then.

About their ages is mentioned that they are one year apart.

8e2051edd90641f743ddf8e9c4610584.jpg

Of course that information only has sense if the writers remember or cares about it.



Well Kristoff is supposed to know a bit of magic, since he had stolen his father books and self taught when younger, but after he uses his powers against the F4 never is mentioned again and whe can't see how much magic he knows. I suppose that he should know at least as much magic as Doom, before he went to America, since that information was downloaded to his brain as a child. I wish to think that he didn't stopped there and went to learn some more eventually, after all he lived with one of the most powerful sorceress in the earth and has one of the biggest libraries available of course that's just a head canon. The few appearances of Kristoff after that barely shows any of their skills.

About Amara well, Maybe, I'm not sure, seems to me that only has passed some months after Doom return as Latverian ruler, anyway IMO that's just another reason to roll my eyes when he is craving for another woman and a family. I'm like, what about the woman who don't hate you, and you get pregnant some months ago?

But at same time I have to add that I liked the couple he did with Morgana and it's a shame that he never gets any interaction with Caroline Le Fay since she is als his daughter.

If they do bring back their daughter Caroline, I hope they disregard the one we saw in Fearless Avengers. It's just too bizarre that she was aged up so that she looks older than her parents. With a father like Victor and mother like Morgan, she should look stunningly beautiful from those genes. Instead she was drawn to look like Bea Arthur from the Golden Girls.

As for the troubled romance of Victor and Amara, I really hope that gets brought up again by somebody. IMO Bendis has a nice real life take on the ups and downs of a romantic involvement between two adults. Amara was very attracted to Victor upon meeting him for the first time when he barged in on Tony's breakfast date with her. Later she got a closer look at the whole package and was very cautious about getting involved with someone as complicated as Victor. I hope Amara doesn't get exiled to the island of forgotten characters.

I seem to remember that Fantastic Four mini series where he also talked about teaching himself magic. This was a good series for him even though he only was revealed towards the end. He was justifiably bitter about being forgotten and abandoned by everyone after Onslaught, which was also true in a meta sort of way. It was written by Christos Gage and it was shortly before Hickman's run on the Fantastic Four. BTW, this article has a good Q&A at the end where the interviewer asks Hickman about the re-introduction of Kristoff to the Fantastic Four title. Here is the link to the entire article

This is the part at the end that has to do with Kristoff

ComicsAlliance: This issue saw the full reintroduction of Kristoff Vernard, Doom's adopted son, into the title. We last saw him in Christos Gage and Mario Alberti's "Spider-Man/Fantastic Four" miniseries, where his time living with the Richards family was revisited, and at the end, he swore he'd destroy Doctor Doom. Here, in the second issue of FF, he's rocking the new Mario Alberti armor from that miniseries, but he's practically fawning over his adoptive father. Is this simply a case where a different take on the character was needed for a different story, did something happen to re-ignite his faith in Doom, or is there another explanation that understandably you might not want to go into?


Jonathan Hickman: "Several things at play here, but, I think, one satisfying conclusion.

First off, let me say that this is not a situation where I didn't read the series in question. In fact, unless something has changed, you can see a pull quote by me on the cover of the collected version of said series. I not only highly recommend it, but think it's a perfect example of Marvel comics DONE RIGHT (And, as an aside, I'd also recommend Chris and Mario's X-Men/Spider-man).

Saying that...

There is a certain place we need to be with both Doom and Kristoff, and we need to be there within a limited window of time. So, given that, I really only have a few options:

1. Disrespect the other creative team and ignore what they have done completely.

2. Feign respecting what they have done by jamming a quick resolution into the book. However, I would argue that this is actually more disrespectful because it's not just diminishing or whitewashing the previous work, but also cheating the readers out of a satisfying experience.

3. Imply that time has passed, something has changed, and hint at the possibility of more story.

Given those choices I'll almost always pick option three.

That means when Doom says in Fantastic Four #583, "I have left myself with no other moves. Summon Kristoff Vernard from exile." I'm telling the reader that there is more there, and, when it's time to tell the Kristoff story, I have the opportunity to play with not just the now, and where he's going, but also something in the near past that everyone will remember.

So, sorry for the long 'craft' answer, and to answer your original question pointedly:

Yes, he tried to destroy Doctor Doom.

He failed."

[Coatl]

If they do bring back their daughter Caroline, I hope they disregard the one we saw in Fearless Avengers. It's just too bizarre that she was aged up so that she looks older than her parents. With a father like Victor and mother like Morgan, she should look stunningly beautiful from those genes. Instead she was drawn to look like Bea Arthur from the Golden Girls.

Well I don't care so much about her age since she is a time traveller, in that context I can get that a daughter gets older than the parents, (more or less like Cable and Scott) my problem with the character is that she was so evil for no reason, like she was trying to hard to be a soap opera villain talking about killing minions for minor offences and taking the tea with Red Skull to discuss their evil plans. Also he never show any power or intelligence besides the normal range. As you said with those genes she should be at least genius level if not also a magician.

As for the troubled romance of Victor and Amara, I really hope that gets brought up again by somebody. IMO Bendis has a nice real life take on the ups and downs of a romantic involvement between two adults. Amara was very attracted to Victor upon meeting him for the first time when barged in on Tony's breakfast date with her. Later she got a closer look at the whole package and was very cautious about getting involved with someone as complicated as Victor. I hope Amara doesn't get exiled to the island of forgotten characters.

I didn't like the relationship so much, since she was cleary saying NO, but Victor still insisted until she lowered her guard, yes Amara felt physically attracted maybe mentally attracted too but no so much "in love" IMO, of course I could be totally wrong since I wasn't follow that run so carefully.

I seem to remember that Fantastic Four mini series where he also talked about teaching himself magic. This was a good series for him even though he only was revealed towards the end. He was justifiably bitter about being forgotten and abandoned by everyone after Onslaught, which was also true in a meta sort of way. It was written by Christos Gage and it was shortly before Hickman's run on the Fantastic Four. BTW, this article has a good Q&A at the end where they interviewer asks Hickman about the re-introduction of Kristoff to the Fantastic Four title. Here is the link to the entire article

I enjoyed that run and was the one who made me fell in love with Kristoff, he show some very relatable an human emotions who many childs (specially adopted or unwanted ones) have to face; felt lonely, rejected and/or neglected. And I totally got his point. Actually I think that the end of the run only confirmed how easy all they were able to wash their hands about him and let him go (probably directly to a certain death) without feeling guilty at all, and never mentioned him again. Even the part when they are supposed to show how much they cared about him when he was younger seemed a bit forced since those warm and familiar scenes never were shown in previous comics, actually as far a I remember they used to be untrusty and barely tolerate him out of need. He was accepted just because they were looking for Reed and in need of a scientific for the team after all and Johnny and Ben were very vocal about how much they disliked the idea but Kristoff didn't take their NO because finding Richards could mean finding his father too.

This is the part at the end that has to do with Kristoff

ComicsAlliance: This issue saw the full reintroduction of Kristoff Vernard, Doom's adopted son, into the title. We last saw him in Christos Gage and Mario Alberti's "Spider-Man/Fantastic Four" miniseries, where his time living with the Richards family was revisited, and at the end, he swore he'd destroy Doctor Doom. Here, in the second issue of FF, he's rocking the new Mario Alberti armor from that miniseries, but he's practically fawning over his adoptive father. Is this simply a case where a different take on the character was needed for a different story, did something happen to re-ignite his faith in Doom, or is there another explanation that understandably you might not want to go into?


Jonathan Hickman: "Several things at play here, but, I think, one satisfying conclusion.

First off, let me say that this is not a situation where I didn't read the series in question. In fact, unless something has changed, you can see a pull quote by me on the cover of the collected version of said series. I not only highly recommend it, but think it's a perfect example of Marvel comics DONE RIGHT (And, as an aside, I'd also recommend Chris and Mario's X-Men/Spider-man).
Saying that...
There is a certain place we need to be with both Doom and Kristoff, and we need to be there within a limited window of time. So, given that, I really only have a few options:
1. Disrespect the other creative team and ignore what they have done completely.
2. Feign respecting what they have done by jamming a quick resolution into the book. However, I would argue that this is actually more disrespectful because it's not just diminishing or whitewashing the previous work, but also cheating the readers out of a satisfying experience.
3. Imply that time has passed, something has changed, and hint at the possibility of more story.
Given those choices I'll almost always pick option three.
That means when Doom says in Fantastic Four #583, "I have left myself with no other moves. Summon Kristoff Vernard from exile." I'm telling the reader that there is more there, and, when it's time to tell the Kristoff story, I have the opportunity to play with not just the now, and where he's going, but also something in the near past that everyone will remember.

So, sorry for the long 'craft' answer, and to answer your original question pointedly:
Yes, he tried to destroy Doctor Doom.
He failed."

Wow, thanks for taking the work to find and copy the interview.

Is a shame that we never got to see what that master plan of Kristoff was. I'm sure that could have been a very interesting one. But also I would like to see the true extent of his abilities since as I have said it never has been addressed, his short participations (when he gets one) show a normal boy in a Doom armor, but in the "Spider-Man/Fantastic Four" he is shown defeating the F4 plus Spider-man (granted they were surely holding back). Also he made his own armor who was very badass looking but we never got to see how it worked against the original one. Kristoff claimed that the one he made was superior and we have to admit that the materials show some promise. I would really liked to see how that battle developed? how would Doom react? why he spared Kristoff? and why and where he get exiled? those are question that sadly seems that nobody else cares.

I liked the way of thinking of Hickman he wanted to be respectful to other authors while at same time using Kristoff and telling his own history, I respected every bit of it. An really enjoyed his run

I just would like that he didn't have portrayed Kristoff so old.

[Iron Maiden]

Well I don't care so much about her age since she is a time traveller, in that context I can get that a daughter gets older than the parents, (more or less like Cable and Scott) my problem with the character is that she was so evil for no reason, like she was trying to hard to be a soap opera villain talking about killing minions for minor offences and taking the tea with Red Skull to discuss their evil plans. Also he never show any power or intelligence besides the normal range. As you said with those genes she should be at least genius level if not also a magician.

I agree. She really wasn't that well developed of a character. I've not read all of her appearances but she was sent forward in time at some point to be raised by some of Morgan's followers. But I don't know how old she was when that happened; I mean, was she moved forward to Earth in the 1940's and then grew up there?? Very confusing. And I agree that as far as I've read about her, Caroline's motives are vague. Is she angry with her parents? Who knows?

I didn't like the relationship so much, since she was cleary saying NO, but Victor still insisted until she lowered her guard, yes Amara felt physically attracted maybe mentally attracted too but no so much "in love" IMO, of course I could be totally wrong since I wasn't follow that run so carefully.

That's not exactly right. Things get confusing because part of the story takes place in Infamous Iron Man and then part of it switches over to Invincible Iron Man. IIRC, when Amara and Victor escape to his villa in France after the Thing destroys her apartment, they have a conversation about the things he did during Secret War. She questions his motives and then demands to be sent home, which he does. Doom visits her at the lab where she works and they have a conversation there but it's about his continuing attempts to be a better man. This takes place after Doom encounters what appears to be his mother attacking the Thing in the ruins of his castle. That's her last appearance in Infamous Iron Man. They later meet again in Invincible Iron Man #595 when Victor shows up outside her residence to let her know Tony Stark is missing. This is when we see that among her groceries are some prenatal vitamins. This has always been the perplexing part of their story. We have this gap between her last appearance in Infamous Iron Man and Invincible Iron Man. We have no further scenes between them after that time he tells her he had just seen his long dead mother. Then suddenly Bendis has them discussing this child she is carrying in Invincible Iron Man. We know he is the father, or at least this is what Amara says. We never saw them get together in that space of time between Infamous Iron Man ends and the story switched over to Invincible Iron Man. It makes for a strange gestation is all I can say.

I enjoyed that run and was the one who made me fell in love with Kristoff, he show some very relatable an human emotions who many childs (specially adopted or unwanted ones) have to face; felt lonely, rejected and/or neglected. And I totally got his point. Actually I think that the end of the run only confirmed how easy all they were able to wash their hands about him and let him go (probably directly to a certain death) without feeling guilty at all, and never mentioned him again. Even the part when they are supposed to show how much they cared about him when he was younger seemed a bit forced since those warm and familiar scenes never were shown in previous comics, actually as far a I remember they used to be untrusty and barely tolerate him out of need. He was accepted just because they were looking for Reed and in need of a scientific for the team after all and Johnny and Ben were very vocal about how much they disliked the idea but Kristoff didn't take their NO because finding Richards could mean finding his father too.

Yes, these past few days I have been browsing through some of those Tom DeFalco/Paul Ryan FF issues with Kristoff. The nicest thing you can say about Sue, Ben and Johnny is that they gave him a place to live for a while after they found him in some kind of statis cocoon in the temple in Tibet where Doom stayed those many years ago. But I can't recall any affection coming from them either.

Wow, thanks for taking the work to find and copy the interview.

Is a shame that we never got to see what that master plan of Kristoff was. I'm sure that could have been a very interesting one. But also I would like to see the true extent of his abilities since as I have said it never has been addressed, his short participations (when he gets one) show a normal boy in a Doom armor, but in the "Spider-Man/Fantastic Four" he is shown defeating the F4 plus Spider-man (granted they were surely holding back). Also he made his own armor who was very badass looking but we never got to see how it worked against the original one. Kristoff claimed that the one he made was superior and we have to admit that the materials show some promise. I would really liked to see how that battle developed? how would Doom react? why he spared Kristoff? and why and where he get exiled? those are question that sadly seems that nobody else cares.

I liked the way of thinking of Hickman he wanted to be respectful to other authors while at same time using Kristoff and telling his own history, I respected every bit of it. An really enjoyed his run

I just would like that he didn't have portrayed Kristoff so old.

I'm ok with them aging up some characters. Kristoff has been around since the mid 1980s and after a while you want to see them become more mature. I used to get so tired of Franklin's baby talk going on for decades.

[Coatl]

I agree. She really wasn't that well developed of a character. I've not read all of her appearance but she was sent forward in time at some point to be raised for some of Morgan's followers. But I don't know how old she was when that happened; I mean, was she moved forward to Earth in the 1940's and then grew up there?? Very confusing. And I agree that as far as I've read about her, Caroline's motives are vague. Is she angry with her parents? Who knows?

I don't think that she is angry at her parents, even when maybe she could (they have been very uncaring toward her), we have seen very little of her but as far as I understood she feels Morgana and Victor above the concept of evil and good. Maybe that also applies for herself but to we have seen so little about her character and motivations that is difficult to infer. It's sad because the idea a daughter between Doom and Morgana could have been a very interesting concept to develop, with Victor intelligence and Morgana Magical powers she could have been the most interesting villain in ages, instead we get a plain character who doesn't show any ability and is just plain evil.

About Amara and Victor relationship, Well I really can't argue nothing here since I really didn't follow that run, I have heard that was a very good approach at the new Status of Doom (before he were returned to his OLD status :S) but never was a big fan of Poor Riri and all those character replacement so I avoided those titles.

Yes, these past few days I have been browsing through some of those Tom DeFalco/Paul Ryan FF issues with Kristoff. The nicest thing you can say about Sue, Ben and Johnny is that they gave him a place to live for a while after they found him in some kind of statis cocoon in the temple in Tibet where Doom stayed those many years ago. But I can't recall any affection coming from them either.

True, that's why I enjoyed so much his relationship with Lang and Cassie, while other people treated him as basically and adult in a boy's body, or Doom 2.0, Cassie was friendly towards him and Lang see is him as an obnoxious brat, but still a child, and even shows some concern about his feelings and trust on his actions. That was actually more that any interaction done with any other member of the F4.

I'm ok with them aging up some characters. Kristoff has been around since the mid 1980s and after a while you want to see them become more mature. I used to get so tired of Franklin's baby talk going on for decades.

Yes, of course I like see the character developing and growing up, my main issue is the accelerated rate Kristoff has done so, from barely Franklin age to 8 years a few issues after to 12 and that was the first age jump that bothered me, since the boy was in extasis since he was 8-9 so shouldn't have been aged up in first place, I just can think that he was put on extasis, wake up and then put on extasis again or face the fact that Kristoff was supposed to be a boy with the mind of a 30 or so years old men, the body of a 12 years old preteen and the mind of a 8-9 years old boy who was shot in battle and that's discomforting. All while Franklin remained the same (that certainly is tiresome).

I'm not bothered about the character growing up, but about the rate he does, since that affect his relationship with other characters, I can't see now Kristoff interacting with Franklin since the writers grown the age difference so much. And would be a shame if neither would be able to interact with Cassie one of his better interaction and the most positive one, since Cassie seems to be stuck in her teen years and Kristoff keeps growin up at the point that a relationship with her could be illegal.

[Iron Maiden]

I don't think that she is angry at her parents, even when maybe she could (they have been very uncaring toward her), we have seen very little of her but as far as I understood she feels Morgana and Victor above the concept of evil and good. Maybe that also applies for herself but to we have seen so little about her character and motivations that is difficult to infer. It's sad because the idea a daughter between Doom and Morgana could have been a very interesting concept to develop, with Victor intelligence and Morgana Magical powers she could have been the most interesting villain in ages, instead we get a plain character who doesn't show any ability and is just plain evil.

About Amara and Victor relationship, Well I really can't argue nothing here since I really didn't follow that run, I have heard that was a very good approach at the new Status of Doom (before he were returned to his OLD status :S) but never was a big fan of Poor Riri and all those character replacement so I avoided those titles.

I have no axe to grind with Riri and I haven't followed her current series. I liked the origin Bendis gives her. I am glad that she was created because girls of that age are rarely given heroic roles in the superhero genre. She's very bright. I think the character replacement resentment could have been avoided if they hadn't temporarily killed off Tony....again! To return to the topic of Doom, I loved their meeting in the ruins of castle Doom where he gave her some advice on her continuing education.

True, that's why I enjoyed so much his relationship with Lang and Cassie, while other people treated him as basically and adult in a boy's body, or Doom 2.0, Cassie was friendly towards him and Lang see is him as an obnoxious brat, but still a child, and even shows some concern about his feelings and trust on his actions. That was actually more that any interaction done with any other member of the F4.

That was the best part of his time with the FF and I hate that Marvel mostly treats it like it never happened. None of the Ant Man series writers ever have mentioned him. When Iron Lad showed up in the Young Avengers series as a returning boy friend I was hoping he would turn out to be Kristoff instead of Nathaniel Richards of Earth 6311.

But to get back to Kristoff, when his mother died and Doom appointed himself his guardian and adoptive father, he lead sheltered life and we never saw him with any companions of his own age. Another thing that happened not long after he became Doom's ward is that Doom's body gets destroyed during the fight between the Silver Surfer and a cosmic powered Terrax. So Kristoff was now alone and then forced into thinking he was his father by the Doombots. When Doom returns to power in Walt Simonson's run, Kristoff is presumed dead at the hands of the Time Variance Authority. Some time later in the DeFalco run, he turns up in a stasis chamber when Nathaniel takes Sue on a journey to the monastery where Doom sought refuge after the accident. I don't recall if it was ever explained how he ended up there. This happens after Reed and Doom were presumed dead in #381. So there are some peculiar gaps in Kristoff's life.

Yes, of course I like see the character developing and growing up, my main issue is the accelerated rate Kristoff has done so, from barely Franklin age to 8 years a few issues after to 12 and that was the first age jump that bothered me, since the boy was in extasis since he was 8-9 so shouldn't have been aged up in first place, I just can think that he was put on extasis, wake up and then put on extasis again or face the fact that Kristoff was supposed to be a boy with the mind of a 30 or so years old men, the body of a 12 years old preteen and the mind of a 8-9 years old boy who was shot in battle and that's discomforting. All while Franklin remained the same (that certainly is tiresome).

I'm not bothered about the character growing up, but about the rate he does, since that affect his relationship with other characters, I can't see now Kristoff interacting with Franklin since the writers grown the age difference so much. And would be a shame if neither would be able to interact with Cassie one of his better interaction and the most positive one, since Cassie seems to be stuck in her teen years and Kristoff keeps growin up at the point that a relationship with her could be illegal.

Since Marvel decided to age up Franklin and Cassie while they were with their parents rebuilding the multiverse, the age gap between them could be a bit closer. It's hard to tell by the way artists draw them. And if we ever see a scene with Kristoff, Franklin and Valeria it would help. But given past history with the way Marvel treats Kristoff, I doubt that would happen.

[Iron Maiden]

Darkhold Alpha Mini-series announced and we have another Doom appearance to enjoy...I hope!