Victor Von Doom: Dr Doom Appreciation 2020

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Finally found my copy of Back Issue magazine that has the Fantastic Four roundtable. Since this interview was conducted both Stan Lee (2018) and Len Wein (2017) have passed away So without further adieu......

Fantastic Four Roundtable - Back Issue #7 December 2004

"For this roundtable discussion we have submitted 12 questions about this landmark series to it's co-creator, Stan Lee and 20 other comics professionals. Most of them have written, drawn, or edited The Fantastic Four over its long history; all have been influenced by it. Most people responded to the questionnaire via email; Gerry Conway and Alex Ross instead asked to be interviewed by phone. " - Peter Sanderson

Scanning through the article, here are some of the contributors:

Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Len Wein, John Byrne, Tom Brevoort, Tom DeFalco, Alex Ross, Mark Evanier ( colleague & friend of Jack Kirby), Chris Claremont, Mark Waid, Rich Buckler, Marv Wolfman, Gerry Conway, Paul Ryan, Kurt Busiek, Jerry Ordway, Steve Rude, Walt Simonson, Roger Stern and Karl Kesel.

The first time Doom comes up is with the question about favorite character. In fact he is mentioned more in this section than the question about Fantastic Four villains (which I will do later)

SANDERSON: Who is your favorite character in Fantastic Four other than Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben, and why?

LEE: Doctor Doom. Because, to me, he’s the most unique of villains.

BREVOORT: Doctor Doom, the first of the stylish, sophisticated villains of the comics, so original, so trendsetting at the time of his conception and development that the specialness has almost been lost over the years, as so many other characters have played riffs off of the elements that originally made Doom unique.

ENGLEHART: Doctor Doom, because he’s a first-class villain who helped make the FF a first-class storyline.

WOLFMAN: Doctor Doom, arguably the best villain ever created in comics,with the richest and most textured origin and characterization.

CONWAY: Willie Lumpkin . I ’m kidding! Stan and Jack in issue #10? Doctor Doom, because he’s the dark side of the Fantastic Four, of adolescent angst. And he has a sense of honor and the potential for redemption.

BUCKLER: Doctor Doom.

BUSIEK: Um . . . either Franklin for fleshing out the family that much more, or Doom for being such a terrifically majestic, compelling villain.

ROSS: Doctor Doom, the tragic figure creating a very exciting villain. The relationship between Doom and Reed is spun from the same source from the Luthor-Superman relationship: The accident that scarred one of them that leads to resentment. The interesting thing about [Doom and Reed] is they’re two geniuses driven by creativity, unlike Luthor, who was science-based, and Superman, who wasn’t creating things. It’s like Doom comes up with c creative schemes jus t to impress Reed: Look upon my works and be impressed. Reed is in this ego conflict with Doom, like the competingegos of anybody in a creative industry, especially when it comes to creating art. Reed and Doom are the yin and yang of comic-book artists! There’s a Reed and a Doom in all of us. My second choice would be the Black Panther, the first black super-hero in [mainstream] comics, or Black Bolt, because of the Inhumans as a group, not him as an individual.

WEIN: Well, I’d love to give a shout out to my main man, Willie Lumpkin, but to be serious, it has to be Victor Von Doom. There is a breadth and depth to that character that
still hasn’t fully been explored, and we’ve been working on it for over 40 years. Right
after Vic, however, I would have to add the Impossible Man. God, there’s something
about writing that pointy-headed foul-up that I absolutely adore.

CLAREMONT: Doom is one, the Impossible Man, another (and, I confess, Valeria is third). [Chris Claremont introduced Reed and Sue’s daughter, Valeria, as a teenager from an alternate future. She was later born in the FF’s present-day timeline.] Doom, basically because he’s Reed’s primal opposite. He presents the opportunity to present a character who can be as close to three-dimensional, and yet remain majestically larger than life, as any in comics. Impy is the exact opposite, one sight gag after another, the perfect opportunity to puncture any and all hope of pretentiousness with giggles and a visual aesthetic derived from Will Elder and Wally Wood. Valeria: sorry, but she’s my (small) contribution to the canon and I felt like I’d only scratched the surface of her stories when I had to leave the book. And also, Salva [Salvador Larroca] drew her so beautifully. Also, there’s Namor, for many of the reasons that apply to Doom, except that he’s essentially a good guy and he carries a blazing torch for Sue. If that isn’t food for conflict and heartbreak, what is?

THOMAS: None of the others really ever mattered to me, unless you count Sub-Mariner and Dr. Doom, in that order

SIMONSON: Too many to choose from because the book has had such an impressive roster of guests and villains. Black Panther and Galactus are two that instantly spring to mind. But there are a lot of choices. And of course, I loved Weezie’s [Louise Simonson’s] version of Franklin over in Power Pack. ;-)

DeFALCO: I certainly had a lot of fun with Franklin because I got to see the man he would become and Reed and Sue should be proud. [Tom DeFalco introduced an older version of Franklin from an alternate future.] BYRNE: Alicia Masters. She was a dream to write. It seemed like every time I approached her I found new layers, new
nuances.

STERN: I’d have to say Alicia Masters. She’s been part of the “family” since issue #8, she’s been a big part of the Thing’s life, and the Surfer’s, and the Torch’s, though the last was later explained away.

EVANIER: I liked the Silver Surfer in his earliest, purest form. There was something very fresh about the character, the way he reacted to people around him, and the way they reacted to him. I’m one of those folks who never cared for him after he started to figure out the human race, perhaps because I haven’t.

KESEL: Dragon Man. Like a million other Lee/Kirby concepts, he’s brilliantly realized—capable of raging like a wild animal one instant, as innocent as a puppy the next. More than any other FF character, Dragon Man touches the 12-year-old fan in me—probably because he’s the kind of “dog” I would have killed to have had as a kid. In fact, I once heard that Roy Thomas (I believe) was going to have the FF take in Dragon Man as their pet—which the 12-year-old in me would have loved to see!

ORDWAY: I am a big fan of Wyatt Wingfoot. Again, the book was so good during that time. And if you reread the issue where the Torch goes off to college [#50], you can see how brilliant the creators were to keep changing the status quo—virtually rebooting the storylines every year or so. Wyatt was such a strong character, yet he needed no powers.

RYAN: Willie Lumpkin. You just gotta love those ears. Reminds me of myself when I was younger

The article also included a Steve Rude sketch

What was Waid's responses to the roundtable as a whole. I imagine his vein popped at hearing everyone pledge fealty to Doom.

[connorhawkes]

What was Waid's responses to the roundtable as a whole. I imagine his vein popped at hearing everyone pledge fealty to Doom.

this made me cackle LOL
but omg what an interview, that's so cool to see thank you!

[Iron Maiden]

What was Waid's responses to the roundtable as a whole. I imagine his vein popped at hearing everyone pledge fealty to Doom.

I went back and looked over that section again, Strangely enough, there is no reply from him on this topic. I'm not sure if the emails were shared among the group so that they could see other replies. That would be interesting if he did get a bit put off by the replies. BTW, Unthinkable arc ended in Sept 2003, about a year before this interview. Then Authoritative Action, where Waid really buries Doom figuratively, ends in Feb 2004. On a side note, I wonder if JMS just decided that Waid went too far and mostly ignores that second arc. When JMS had Doom return in his FF run he just shows Doom trapped in Hell with the Unthinkable armor, which he didn't have in AA. JMS always was more lenient with his version that Waid. He even used him as comic relief at times.

this made me cackle LOL
but omg what an interview, that's so cool to see thank you!

Glad you enjoyed it. I will work on getting the villain discussion but there wasn't as much discussion about Doom surprisingly as there is for this question. I think it shows that quite a few writers see him more than just the menace of the month. Even Englehart, who I think really doesn't have a good take on the character in his work, is complimentary here.

When looking over the passage of time since he last wrote Doom, one wonders if Mark just has no interest in writing the current version of Doom. Maybe he doesn't care for the idea that Doom has quite a lot more shades of gray and is not a totally black-hearted villain. Waid didn't have Doom appear at all in a story that takes place in Latveria in his Daredevil run back in 2011. Instead we see Exchequer Beltane, Minister of the Bank of Latveria. Apparently DD had unwittingly foiled a money laundering scheme he was setting up involving the crime syndicates in the U.S.

I haven't read any of his Doctor Strange but I'm sure if Doom appeared in that it would be mentioned in the description of the story in the solicitations. I expect even if he did have him appear, he would toss out the current status of their relationship, which is probably the closest thing to a friendship that Doom has. I really enjoyed their interaction in Savage Avengers. He actually sacrificed the use of his triage drone (which is a really cool thing to have and explains a lot about Doom's ability to bounce back after a tough fight away from his homeland) to save Stephen when they were both wounded in battle with Kulan Gath. Stephen got the worst of it so he sent it to him first.

[connorhawkes]

I went back and looked over that section again, Strangely enough, there is no reply from him on this topic. I'm not sure if the emails were shared among the group so that they could see other replies. That would be interesting if he did get a bit put off by the replies. BTW, Unthinkable arc ended in Sept 2003, about a year before this interview. Then Authoritative Action, where Waid really buries Doom figuratively, ends in Feb 2004. On a side note, I wonder if JMS just decided that Waid went to far and mostly ignores that second arc. When JMS had Doom return in his FF run he just shows Doom trapped in Hell with the Unthinkable armor, which he didn't have in AA. JMS always was more lenient with his version that Waid. He even used him as comic relief at times.





Glad you enjoyed it. I will work on getting the villain discussion but there wasn't as much discussion about Doom surprisingly as there is for this question. I think it shows that quite a few writers see him more than just the menace of the month. Even Englehart, who I think really doesn't have a good take on the character in his work, is complimentary here.

When looking over the passage of time since he last wrote Doom, one wonders if Mark just has no interest in writing the current version of Doom. Maybe he doesn't care for the idea that Doom has quite a lot more shades of gray and is not a totally black-hearted villain. Waid didn't have Doom appear at all in a story that takes place in Latveria in his Daredevil run back in 2011. Instead we see Exchequer Beltane, Minister of the Bank of Latveria. Apparently DD had unwittingly foiled a money laundering scheme he was setting up involving the crime syndicates in the U.S.

I haven't read any of his Doctor Strange but I'm sure if Doom appeared in that it would be mentioned in the description of the story in the solicitations. I expect even if he did have him appear, he would toss out the current status of their relationship, which is probably the closest thing to a friendship that Doom has. I really enjoyed their interaction in Savage Avengers. He actually sacrificed the use of his triage drone (which is a really cool thing to have and explains a lot about Doom's ability to bounce back after a tough fight away from his homeland) to save Stephen when they were both wounded in battle with Kulan Gath. Stephen got the worst of it so he sent it to him first.

I’m replying on the go so this is shorter than I want but — its so interesting, I thought I read an interview where Bendis said Waid was SO impatient to play with Doom when they found out Bendis was doing a redemption arc with him. I know he did use him in a couple issues of Avengers, but I also know the writer of Unstoppable Wasp also helped co-write, so who knows how much input Waid had.

Also I enjoyed the Savage Avengers arc as well! The art was great and Strange and Doom’s dynamic was really fun, I like how almost casual Doom can get with Stephen

[Iron Maiden]

I’m replying on the go so this is shorter than I want but — its so interesting, I thought I read an interview where Bendis said Waid was SO impatient to play with Doom when they found out Bendis was doing a redemption arc with him. I know he did use him in a couple issues of Avengers, but I also know the writer of Unstoppable Wasp also helped co-write, so who knows how much input Waid had.

Also I enjoyed the Savage Avengers arc as well! The art was great and Strange and Doom’s dynamic was really fun, I like how almost casual Doom can get with Stephen

Oh, you are right I forgot that Infamous Iron Man did appear in a 2 issue arc with Waid's Avengers. I noticed that he had a co-writer on that too! We will never know who did what on that of course. And Doom mostly sat that one out since he didn't want to go inside the girl's school.

With Doom and Stephen I'm glad that writers are remembering that they spent a lot of time together preparing for the battle against Mephisto in Triumph and Torment. He stayed at Castle Doom for "3 fortnights" or 6 weeks. So they trained, took their meals together etc and I am sure had conversations off panel throughout that time. In fact I wish someone would revisit that time and do a little one shot about it.

[connorhawkes]

Oh, you are right I forgot that Infamous Iron Man did appear in a 2 issue arc with Waid's Avengers. I noticed that he had a co-writer on that too! We will never know who did what on that of course. And Doom mostly sat that one out since he didn't want to go inside the girl's school.

With Doom and Stephen I'm glad that writers are remembering that they spent a lot of time together preparing for the battle against Mephisto in Triumph and Torment. He stayed at Castle Doom for "3 fortnights" or 6 weeks. So they trained, took their meals together etc and I am sure had conversations off panel throughout that time. In fact I wish someone would revisit that time and do a little one shot about it.

For sure! I think even more for Doom he remembers Stephen as his sheriff of agamotto during SW 2015 and that was like phew... 8 years of time? Even if Stephen doesn’t remember it, Doom is pretty comfortable with him by now I’m sure

[Iron Maiden]

Oh right! I should have mentioned that too. One forgets that Battleworld went on for that long because we join things in progress so to speak. Doom has his wife and children in that interval.

Now here's some good news about sales on the Doctor Doom series: It topped the chart for September publications on the reorder list. This means that a lot of shops sold out their shipment and ordered more copies due to customer demand. I think over the pandemic a lot of readers discovered this comic and now they're following the series. Another factor is that some shops had small amount ordered and it sold more than they expected. I always have a pull list at my LCS.

Diamond hasn't released the sales for the month of September but will be curious to see if the series is still in the top 50.

[connorhawkes]

Oh right! I should have mentioned that too. One forgets that Battleworld went on for that long because we join things in progress so to speak. Doom has his wife and children in that interval.

Now here's some good news about sales on the Doctor Doom series: It topped the chart for September publications on the reorder list. This means that a lot of shops sold out their shipment and ordered more copies due to customer demand. I think over the pandemic a lot of readers discovered this comic and now they're following the series. Another factor is that some shops had small amount ordered and it sold more than they expected. I always have a pull list at my LCS.

Diamond hasn't released the sales for the month of September but will be curious to see if the series is still in the top 50.

That’s awesome! I wish this would change marvel’s mind about Doom ending at issue 10 Sigh..

[Iron Maiden]

That’s awesome! I wish this would change marvel’s mind about Doom ending at issue 10 Sigh..

I don't know if it was Cantwell's decision to end it (for now) because he was taking on Iron Man. He also has some creator-owned work going on plus trying to pull together projects like Paper Girls. I am sure that Marvel is taking note of this kind of data. It shows that there is very much an audience there for a Doom series, even if it is another limited series.

BTW, I was looking over that Back Issue article and I noticed that the question about FF villains states: "Doctor Doom is obviously the FF's foremost villain but who is the next best villain in the FF series?" There are a couple of replies that mention him.


Wolfman: I would have to say Sub-Mariner because he challenged the FF on an emotional level that most others couldn't and didn't. Both Subby and Doom had personal connections to the group and they played the best.

Stern: The trouble is that Doctor Doom is such a great villain everyone else winds up tying for last place in comparison. The Sub-Mariner would be a natural second-place finisher, if not for the fact that he was Marvel's first and foremost anti-hero. In fact a lot of Marvel's best opponents, The Inhumans, the Surfer, the Panther - turned out to be heroes in their own right. And Galactus, dangerous as he was, was more of a force of nature than a villain. I suppose I'd give the nod to the Mad Thinker. After all, he did worm his way into the Baxter Building on three different occasions.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I don't know if it was Cantwell's decision to end it (for now) because he was taking on Iron Man. He also has some creator-owned work going on plus trying to pull together projects like Paper Girls. I am sure that Marvel is taking note of this kind of data. It shows that there is very much an audience there for a Doom series, even if it is another limited series.

BTW, I was looking over that Back Issue article and I noticed that the question about FF villains states: "Doctor Doom is obviously the FF's foremost villain but who is the next best villain in the FF series?" There are a couple of replies that mention him.


Wolfman: I would have to say Sub-Mariner because he challenged the FF on an emotional level that most others couldn't and didn't. Both Subby and Doom had personal connections to the group and they played the best.

Stern: The trouble is that Doctor Doom is such a great villain everyone else winds up tying for last place in comparison. The Sub-Mariner would be a natural second-place finisher, if not for the fact that he was Marvel's first and foremost anti-hero. In fact a lot of Marvel's best opponents, The Inhumans, the Surfer, the Panther - turned out to be heroes in their own right. And Galactus, dangerous as he was, was more of a force of nature than a villain. I suppose I'd give the nod to the Mad Thinker. After all, he did worm his way into the Baxter Building on three different occasions.

Stern used The Mad Thinker as a villain in his Amazing Spider-Man run.

[Iron Maiden]

Stern used The Mad Thinker as a villain in his Amazing Spider-Man run.

The Mad Thinker can be an interesting villain. He seems to be very fluid in his alliances. He was a part of the Intelligencia that would meet and form their plans for many years. Yet we see him also helping Reed go over his calculations that lead him to feel that he was on the right path during Civil War. Then he is one of the invitees when they needed a strategy to deal with the Council of Reeds. Both Reed and Victor have a degree of respect for his abilities. He frequently does live up to his name in some appearances and is as mad as a hatter so to speak. That was especially true in Marvel Two in One where he tries to become Reed. I don't think his disguise would have fooled anyone!

[connorhawkes]

I don't know if it was Cantwell's decision to end it (for now) because he was taking on Iron Man. He also has some creator-owned work going on plus trying to pull together projects like Paper Girls. I am sure that Marvel is taking note of this kind of data. It shows that there is very much an audience there for a Doom series, even if it is another limited series.

BTW, I was looking over that Back Issue article and I noticed that the question about FF villains states: "Doctor Doom is obviously the FF's foremost villain but who is the next best villain in the FF series?" There are a couple of replies that mention him.


Wolfman: I would have to say Sub-Mariner because he challenged the FF on an emotional level that most others couldn't and didn't. Both Subby and Doom had personal connections to the group and they played the best.

Stern: The trouble is that Doctor Doom is such a great villain everyone else winds up tying for last place in comparison. The Sub-Mariner would be a natural second-place finisher, if not for the fact that he was Marvel's first and foremost anti-hero. In fact a lot of Marvel's best opponents, The Inhumans, the Surfer, the Panther - turned out to be heroes in their own right. And Galactus, dangerous as he was, was more of a force of nature than a villain. I suppose I'd give the nod to the Mad Thinker. After all, he did worm his way into the Baxter Building on three different occasions.

Lolol Wolfman was the guy who did F4 #200 and that storyline where Sue meets up with Namor in Hollywood, right? Very on-brand answer. That entire arc that leads into 200 is insane but I think one of my underrated favorite parts is the clone son who looks like Doom but a businessman and Reed is like “hmmm he looks so familiar for some reason”


Also that’s definitely true about the interest for more Doom content! You think they’ll follow up with a miniseries or anything for him? Can Zdarsky free up his schedule please I miss his Doom

[Iron Maiden]

Lolol Wolfman was the guy who did F4 #200 and that storyline where Sue meets up with Namor in Hollywood, right? Very on-brand answer. That entire arc that leads into 200 is insane but I think one of my underrated favorite parts is the clone son who looks like Doom but a businessman and Reed is like “hmmm he looks so familiar for some reason”


Also that’s definitely true about the interest for more Doom content! You think they’ll follow up with a miniseries or anything for him? Can Zdarsky free up his schedule please I miss his Doom

I'd rather see Cantwell do a Doctor Doom volume 2 but yes, Zdarsky or perhaps even Gerry Duggan. I found Doom's appearance in his Savage Avengers highly entertaining. I bet Doom was flattered when Conan told him he had the heart of a warrior.

[DoomScribe]

I've also opined privately and not so about there being a kind of dichotomy at Marvel on how they characterize Doom in the comics. There's a Waid point of view that ruled for awhile, where Doom was so obviously evil, bad, malignant and nasty ... where they didn't want there to be any redeemable qualities to the character. To fit their viewpoint, the bad guy had to be recognizably, blatantly bad, so that the good guy would always come out looking good (even if the good guy did some pretty awful things - everyone would have to agree that he/she was always the hero). But there has also always been this subset of Marvel creators who wanted Doom to be just enough on the cusp of things so that he would be admirable in a way, that he would have qualities the fans could relate to or respect - honor, integrity, national pride, passion, strength of will, etc. They seem to want to have him almost redeem himself ... so that we wouldn't pity him, but recognize a figure born out of tragedy.

The obvious (mustache twirling, hero tied to the railroad tracks) villainy has never appealed to me personally, anymore that the true blue (Superman, Cap) infallible and always right hero has. The real world is full of people who are shades of gray. Who sometimes do bad things even when trying to do good things. Who fail sometimes and win a few. Who get knocked down but get back up again, who are admirable for knowing what they have to do and keep trying. These are people I can care about.

When Marvel takes Doom too far toward the pure evil, I often think that they are pandering to the audience. Displaying depth of character is hard work, and as a comic book I think sometimes they want their younger audience to have a clearer picture of right and wrong. The adult audience has to weather those simplistic views because they are not the core audience. So they think ... even though as a young reader I would have (and did) think that such representations were childish. Kids are more sophisticated than we think.

Nevertheless, my favorite Doom is always the one who knows what he's doing is right, that he has the best answer and the best ability to see it through. Some people may get hurt along the way and he's willing to bear that burden (and I think he does in a way). I think that is why he has endured as long as he has.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

When Marvel takes Doom too far toward the pure evil, I often think that they are pandering to the audience.

I think they are pandering to themselves. In the case of Waid certainly.

The audience has overwhelmingly voted for the more complex, nuanced, admirable Doom.

Look at the success of Secret Wars 1984 and Secret Wars 2015, the successful and influential OGN like "Triumph and Torment" and "Emperor Doom". Cantwell's Doctor Doom series whose individual issues have outsold Slott's vanilla FF run.