Victor Von Doom: Dr Doom Appreciation 2020

[FRC Coazze]

Oh no, please. I just can't see Nicholas Cage as Doom. For what it's worth, I liked Julian McMahon. The movies aren't great and Doom was more of a generic evil capitalist, but I think McMahon was a good choice: he's a great actor (and he certainly was handsome enough ) too bad he was wasted just like the character. I'd give a little credit to the 2005/07 movies though: Latveria and Doomstadt (Hassenstadt actually) have been mentioned, and Doom wears armor and mask, and his design in the first movie wasn't bad at all.

Speaking about characters: doesn't matter whether you know the character or not: you'll love a well written, interesting character; and I must say: the most interesting characters are those who are neither white nor black. Marvel superheroes are not perfect people, they have a lot of flaws, I think the movies captured this aspect. They proved they can do the same with villains: Thanos, Killmonger and Loki are great characters 'cause yes, they are the villains, but you can understand their motivations. Victor has a huge potential, it just needs to be exploited. I really hope it will.

By the way, I've never seen the 2015 F4 movie. You think I should?

Amazon just announced this is being cancelled, after announcing earlier this month that delivery was to be delayed to November:
Out of Print--Limited Availability.

The Harrowing of Doom: A Marvel Untold Novel Paperback – October 6, 2020
by David Annandale (Author)
Part of: Marvel Untold (1 Books)

An infamous supervillain risks body and soul for an ignoble cause, in this astounding untold chapter in the life of Marvel’s Doctor Doom

Every year Victor von Doom fights to rescue the soul of his mother from Hell. Every year he fails, but now plans to turn the tables. Blending super-science and sorcery, Victor focuses on creating a singular device, the Harrower, which will rip souls from the netherworld. With the obsessive genius distracted, the underground resistance seizes a chance to liberate Latveria. But they attack at the worst possible time, damaging the machine and inadvertently tearing a gateway into Hell. As demonic creatures and rebels besiege his castle, Doctor Doom must make an impossible choice – free his mother or save his people.


EDIT:
Barnes & Noble has it on their website with a Dec 1 shipping date.

Don't scare people like that! XD
Checked on the publisher's site: It's still coming out.. Release dates are: December 1st US and January 7th UK. It's not available for pre-order everywhere though, not the paperback edition anyway.

[SuperiorIronman]

I mean if you got nothing better to do Fant4stic should be fine but gonna be real and say it's not worth your time.

Y'know how the DCEU was filled with angst and edge for the sake of edge and the 2005 film didn't have enough going on outside shenanigans? That's pretty much Fant4stic. It's just not good and has in my opinion the worst cinematic version of Doom. Toby Kebblle deserved better.

And in particular I hated everything about that version of Doom's costume design. Doom doesn't have to be in armor if you don't want to do it but you need to keep the character recognizable. The 2005 version had that in spades since I can still readily call that Doctor Doom but in 2015's case I instantly think of a crash test dummy. Like after Iron man nobody ever had to explain a guy in a suit of armor. Like the only thing they had to do was maybe explain the magic powers. And really they had a perfect setup for the suit being Doom's suit to keep him safe in the other dimension and he just had it when people came back for him. And while that's kind of what they did it just isn't as visually interesting as anything the comics did or even the prior three films (counting Roger Corman's who surprisingly has the most comic book accurate costume).

[Iron Maiden]

When you think about it, John Trank's Fantastic Four has more similarities to the Ultimate Fantastic Four than Stan and Jack's FF. In UFF, a young Reed and Victor worked on the transporter together and Doom didn't come back with the rest of them in their transporter accident. The film does the same and so does the 2005 film. In both versions, Doom's more developed origin in the comics gets sacrificed for the sake of simplifying the script of the films...cutting to the chase so to speak. And the damage was not just limited to his face but the entire body in both Ultimate Fantastic Four and Trank's FF. I don't really think either version successfully merged Doom's origin with the Fantastic Four. I guess I am just used to the events that lead to the Fantastic Four's origin and Doom's being separate. In the comics, anywhere from 5 - 10 years pass by before Doom emerges again. Ben and Reed had graduated and then originally has served in WWII then started their separate careers before they made that fateful flight.

Oh no, please. I just can't see Nicholas Cage as Doom. For what it's worth, I liked Julian McMahon. The movies aren't great and Doom was more of a generic evil capitalist, but I think McMahon was a good choice: he's a great actor (and he certainly was handsome enough ) too bad he was wasted just like the character. I'd give a little credit to the 2005/07 movies though: Latveria and Doomstadt (Hassenstadt actually) have been mentioned, and Doom wears armor and mask, and his design in the first movie wasn't bad at all.

I like Julian in other roles like Charmed and Nip Tuck but the Fox version of Doom was IMO not one I was going to like no matter who played the role. He did the best he could with what he was given. I think his best scene was when he tricked Ben into going into Reed's device and then siphoned off the power for himself. I want to see Doom with just a hint of an accent. Of course Doom would have learned or taught himself perfect English. I keep going back to the old Hammer films and an actor named Herbert Lom. who left Czechoslovakia as the Nazi occupation took hold. He was Hammer's Phantom of the Opera then switched into a comedy role as Inspector Dreyfus in the series of Pink Panther films. I wish they could find a young actor with a voice like that, not overdoing the accent but making it noticable.

[Doombot]

And none of the Hollywood versions were successful and many point to the badly conceived Doctor Doom as one of the reasons. Trank's movie was more along the lines of a body horror them, with Sue being the only one that seemed to escape that. Doom goes MIA for aboujt 3/4 of the film and then the burned crash test dummy appears just to have something to fight against in the end. Toby Kebbell wasn't even in the suit from what he's said his part of the movie.

I realize that the majority of film goers probably have no idea who these characters are. But if the producer/director/writer crew do their job the audience will accept it. There were probably many who attended the MCU movies who had never seen Thanos before. But they caught on either by checking a wiki or asking friends, etc.

One of the first things you do, if it were up to me, is make sure you hire the actor to VOICE Doom and not play him on screen. This frees the director and studio from having to deal with the actor's ego and behind the scenes battles over whether or not the actor gets to have screen time with the mask off. You go the Darth Vader route and have one voice actor and one suit actor. Disney is apparently going though this again right now with The Mandalorian and the actor portraying the title character, I've forgotten his name atm. Skip all that and go the Vader route.

I agree that most people wouldn't know Doom, aside from his look maybe, and the MCU needs to build him up in a few movies. They need to start laying groundwork with mentions of the small European nation that is extremely secretive and closed off, with an equally reclusive monarch. It needs to be treated as a European North Korea. You could have certain characters interact with Latverian politicians/ambassadors or even better illegal spy networks and tech smuggling/selling. It's perfect for many characters like Bucky, Sam and the Black Widow. Also discovering something similar in an Avengers or Panther film would be pretty easy. Doom and Latveria need to be hinted at and introduced BEFORE any FF stories if you want him to have an impact and not fall into the MCU villain trap, that only Thanos has been able to avoid.

[Iron Maiden]

One of the first things you do, if it were up to me, is make sure you hire the actor to VOICE Doom and not play him on screen. This frees the director and studio from having to deal with the actor's ego and behind the scenes battles over whether or not the actor gets to have screen time with the mask off. You go the Darth Vader route and have one voice actor and one suit actor. Disney is apparently going though this again right now with The Mandalorian and the actor portraying the title character, I've forgotten his name atm. Skip all that and go the Vader route.

I agree that most people wouldn't know Doom, aside from his look maybe, and the MCU needs to build him up in a few movies. They need to start laying groundwork with mentions of the small European nation that is extremely secretive and closed off, with an equally reclusive monarch. It needs to be treated as a European North Korea. You could have certain characters interact with Latverian politicians/ambassadors or even better illegal spy networks and tech smuggling/selling. It's perfect for many characters like Bucky, Sam and the Black Widow. Also discovering something similar in an Avengers or Panther film would be pretty easy. Doom and Latveria need to be hinted at and introduced BEFORE any FF stories if you want him to have an impact and not fall into the MCU villain trap, that only Thanos has been able to avoid.

I agree this is the right way to go and have been saying pretty much the same thing for years now. The Darth Vader route is the only one that makes sense. I have read in the past that some said that Julian McMahon was too concerned about not being seen on screen but I discount that. The studio hired him for the role mainly because he had become popular to audiences due to his role on Charmed and then got some acting props on his role on Nip/Tuck. Also IRRC he was, like Chiklis (The Shield), already under contract to Fox.

There have been some rumors during the pandemic that we will see Lucia Von Bardas in an end credit scene in Black Widow and that Latveria will be mentioned. This writer doesn't say where he's learned this information from so we should take it with a grain of salt. But I hope he's on to something because this one be a good step for Marvel to take. I'd like to see Doom and/or his operatives working on some grand scheme worthy of some of his better arcs in the comics. I loved the role he played in Steranko's Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD where you didn't know until the final panel of a multi-issue arc that Doom was behind it all along.

[connorhawkes]

it would probably easy for them to play up the political espionage angle and use Natasha or Bucky or Sam or even Sharon Carter after the Falcon and Winter Soldier establishes them as taking down European threats like Zemo.. as long as they differentiate Doom from the Nazis I guess that’d be fine. I think I’m biased, I find the stories where Doom interacts with Cap or Bucky or BW as pretty uncharitable to him, Brubaker generally has a cold POV when it comes to Doom imho. But I think it wouldn’t be bad as a mysterious introduction to him as the enigmatic ruler of a closed off European country. And then a stepwise reveal about who he is, maybe leading up to some F4 film or sequel where you get a humanizing look at him through flashbacks. Could also work in a Triumph and Torment type film but the Dr Strange films haven’t impressed me as of yet.

[Iron Maiden]

While I do give him props for Books of Doom, Brubaker did a few things in there I didn't like that were not part of any of the Doom eras he covered. He does expand a bit on his days at college. For one thing I am not sure what he was trying to convey in the incident with the female student that he attacked when they were kissing. Was it just Victor being prudish (which I doubt) or was it the demonic influence that made him see the face of the border guard he killed in self defense back in Latveria? I don't think it really add much to the origin story anyway. Maybe Brubaker was trying another means to show Doom's contempt for his surroundings. It just didn't work for me. And that cell block of people Doom thinks is dangerous to his reputation. I just wonder why he would allow that reporter to find out so much about him in the first place. He could have simply refused her request....to interview a Doombot?? How would she know about it anyway?

I did like the Doom arc in his Winter Soldier and he seems more eccentric here. He squabbles with Nick Fury (I like his remark about his demotions in rank) and is of course eager to improve some of Reed's tech. I thought it was hilarious that the first thing he wanted to do when they reached the place were Lucia Von Bardas and the Red Skull were hiding out was to fight with the killer apes. He was very brutal to Von Bardas and it seems to me it might be because there was some kind of betrayal on her part. Was he at one point secretly grooming her as a double agent in the U.S?? I wish there was more information about her and how she ties in to Doom beyond what we've seen on the page so far. In the animated series where she has appeared, she's a robotic servant. I hope she does show up in the MCU

[Doombot]

I also really like when the political/espionage type characters interact with Doom. Doom should seem more cold and menacing to those type of characters as he is obviously much more of a threat to Bucky than say, Sue Richards, and he would also see them as even further beneath him than super powered types.

One thing that has always stuck out to me is the wide variation in depicting Latveria and Latverians. Marvel writers can't seem to make up their mind about whether Latverians are these backwards people that are terribly oppressed by Doom, or that they're actually a well off people and Doom cares about their wellbeing, provided they completely accept him as King and master. Then there was the insulting and somewhat racist depiction made, in an otherwise fun story, in that Black Panther series where Storm and Panther scoff at the Latervians, assuming they probably never seen a black person before and their towns and homes look like that of Keebler Elves.

[Iron Maiden]

I also really like when the political/espionage type characters interact with Doom. Doom should seem more cold and menacing to those type of characters as he is obviously much more of a threat to Bucky than say, Sue Richards, and he would also see them as even further beneath him than super powered types.

One thing that has always stuck out to me is the wide variation in depicting Latveria and Latverians. Marvel writers can't seem to make up their mind about whether Latverians are these backwards people that are terribly oppressed by Doom, or that they're actually a well off people and Doom cares about their wellbeing, provided they completely accept him as King and master. Then there was the insulting and somewhat racist depiction made, in an otherwise fun story, in that Black Panther series where Storm and Panther scoff at the Latervians, assuming they probably never seen a black person before and their towns and homes look like that of Keebler Elves.

The geopolitical aspect of Cantwell's Doom series is one of the things I think he is doing very well. I can't wait until the next issue to see how he seizes Latveria back from the opposing forces. Dimintri Fortunov was just a puppet and easily dispatched. In a podcast Cantwell has said there will be more interaction with Blue Marvel also.

Currently, most writers are going along with Latverians being well off but you can be sure Doom has his means of surveilling any insurgent factions. But one finds that if the people are content they aren't so quick to rebel. Keeping up their standard of living works both ways....the people are content so then there is less for Doom to worry about. I wonder what kind of news outlets he allows them to view.

I know that story you are talking about. It was during Reggie Hudlin's run and they were on their honeymoon tour or something like that. He also has Doom hint at saying something racist. I'd have to look it up but Doom makes some remark about some ability of T'Challa's and T'Challa say something like "let me finish that for you ..."for a black man". I'm just guessing and can't remember right now the exact conversation.

[Doombot]

Right, it was a Royal Tour, it was a pretty fun storyline. They visited Namor and the US as well. Doom implies at some point during their conversation that perhaps the Wakandans have some low level mutation which makes them more intelligent. I would not at all put it past Doom to imply something incendiary to get a rise out of T'Challa, but I have a had time seeing Doom as an overt racist. He would see it as petty and pedestrian. (Although he can indeed be extremely petty in other aspects)

[Doom'nGloom]

Hello there. English is not my first language so forgive me for my mistakes. I've been visiting this site for quite some time but I only now made an account. I've been reading comics for 8 months now so I'm quite new to the game. In fact the only Doom comics I read were Books of Doom and Triumph and Torment but those made me really like the character so I've been wondering what other good Doom stories are out there. I'm not looking for events as I don't know about many marvel characters. Many people praise Mark Waid's run on FF but some say his Doom is not very nuanced. Is it worth checking out?

[Doom'nGloom]

I'm also on the fence about buying the current run by Cantwell. Is it beginner friendly?

[Iron Maiden]

Hello there. English is not my first language so forgive me for my mistakes. I've been visiting this site for quite some time but I only now made an account. I've been reading comics for 8 months now so I'm quite new to the game. In fact the only Doom comics I read were Books of Doom and Triumph and Torment but those made me really like the character so I've been wondering what other good Doom stories are out there. I'm not looking for events as I don't know about many marvel characters. Many people praise Mark Waid's run on FF but some say his Doom is not very nuanced. Is it worth checking out?

Hi and Welcome to our little corner of the forums. Your English is very good so there is no need to apologize. As for Mark Waid's Fantastic Four, my opinion is it is a very good Fantastic Four run but not very good for the Doom fans. He completely tore down the character by the time he was through first in the Unthinkable arc and then later in Authoritative Action. Now that would have beek acceptable if he had any plans to make some changes but he didn't.

I'm also on the fence about buying the current run by Cantwell. Is it beginner friendly?

Depends on how much of a beginner you are. Books of Doom and Triumph and Torment are excellent source of Doom lore so you are off to a good start. In the Doom series. there are some characters that show up that really aren't huge names, ones like Silver Sable and a member of her Wild Pack, Boris, Kristoff Vernard, Blue Marvel or Morgan le Fey. Or a newer character like Lady Victorious.
It does touch on some events of the past, like the fate of Doom's first love Valeria. Kang is very much a big part of the series and even Kang and Doom discuss how even they aren't sure how they are related to each other.




There are a lot of explanations as you go along but Cantwell at least assumes what the history is between Doom and Doctor Strange for example. And you can always ask here for more info/background or check out a wiki, etc. But Cantwell does a good job of explaining what the character is about through dialogue and how they behave with Doom and the rest of the characters

[Doom'nGloom]

Hi and Welcome to our little corner of the forums. Your English is very good so there is no need to apologize. As for Mark Waid's Fantastic Four, my opinion is it is a very good Fantastic Four run but not very good for the Doom fans. He completely tore down the character by the time he was through first in the Unthinkable arc and then later in Authoritative Action. Now that would have beek acceptable if he had any plans to make some changes but he didn't.



Depends on how much of a beginner you are. Books of Doom and Triumph and Torment are excellent source of Doom lore so you are off to a good start. In the Doom series. there are some characters that show up that really aren't huge names, ones like Silver Sable and a member of her Wild Pack, Boris, Kristoff Vernard, Blue Marvel or Morgan le Fey. Or a newer character like Lady Victorious.
It does touch on some events of the past, like the fate of Doom's first love Valeria. Kang is very much a big part of the series and even Kang and Doom discuss how even they aren't sure how they are related to each other.




There are a lot of explanations as you go along but Cantwell at least assumes what the history is between Doom and Doctor Strange for example. And you can always ask here for more info/background or check out a wiki, etc. But Cantwell does a good job of explaining what the character is about through dialogue and how they behave with Doom and the rest of the characters

Thanks a lot. From the names you listed I'm only familiar with Boris and Silver Sable from 90's spider-man show. All I know about Kang is that he's a time traveler and he has many aliases throughout history. Is he somehow related to Doom? I believe he's a descendant of Reed since he shares his surname.

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks a lot. From the names you listed I'm only familiar with Boris and Silver Sable from 90's spider-man show. All I know about Kang is that he's a time traveler and he has many aliases throughout history. Is he somehow related to Doom? I believe he's a descendant of Reed since he shares his surname.

You don't need to know much more than that about Kang to understand his role in the Doom series. I think there are many fans that are confused about Kang. I sometimes forget whose family tree he belongs to. But I do believe the current Marvel canon is that he is a part of the Richards family tree, going back to a John Byrne story in his Fantastic Four run. Byrne was the writer who created and introduced the character of Nathaniel Richards. Some say this baby is Kang himself or he is one of Kang's ancestors.



Byrne also introduced Doom's ward and designated heir Kristoff Vernard in his Fantastic Four run. He made his debut in FF #247 and appears a number of times during his run.