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  1. #451
    Incredible Member scourge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    I mean, there's not a lot to Vengeance MAC. Only details we got is she's strong, doesn't care to be on the avengers and is sardonic.

    The character was a blank slate given that the only other detail we ever got for her was "She doesn't wear panties" which is a fucking not good detail to give for a girl who was canonically 15 in that run
    I know. Just most MAC fans I've met seem to think she's entirely a Gillen creation and never appeared before that.

  2. #452
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mace11 View Post
    By the way looking at the bio, chavez could still be born latino but from another universe.Her alien mothers have a latino/hispanic last name.
    Yeah, and the fact that one of her moms come from a place literally called Planeta Fuertona, which are very obviously spanish words, definitely points to the fact that America’s ancestors may have been of latin@ descent. My best guess is that even though her and her moms are not human, they are an evolution of the human species (like mutants) in the future, and one that specifically evolved from latin@ people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Was his being her god sort of retconned during her solo series? Like, I think he is responsible for creating that pocket dimension where she was born/raised but....he didn't create her moms.
    Not totally. What Gabby Rivera did was create a more independent story for one of her moms, Amalia. We found out she didn’t come from the UP originally, but from Planeta Fuertona (as mentioned above), which was not created by the Demiurge. She then went to the UP as a refugee and met Elena, who was already an inhabitant of that world. So the Demiurge was responsible for half of her origin, at least. And he was still worshipped as a god, since America grew up idolizing him (as shown in YA) and he had a statue built in his honor there (as shown in her solo).

    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    I mean, there's not a lot to Vengeance MAC. Only details we got is she's strong, doesn't care to be on the avengers and is sardonic.

    The character was a blank slate given that the only other detail we ever got for her was "She doesn't wear panties" which is a fucking not good detail to give for a girl who was canonically 15 in that run
    I never knew America was supposed to be 15 during Vengeance. In hindsight, it wasn’t so bad that Gillen aged her up.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 03-20-2020 at 02:06 PM.

  3. #453
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    I really hope that after Empyre we get a Young Avenger's ongoing. Mini's are nice but an ongoing is long overdue.
    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

  4. #454
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nj06 View Post
    I really hope that after Empyre we get a Young Avenger's ongoing. Mini's are nice but an ongoing is long overdue.
    Yeah, I feel like after Empyre would be the perfect time. Aside from the fact that we already got a teaser of the old team getting back together, the ending of Empyre could place Teddy in any number of interesting situations that could be adressed in a new YA ongoing.
    Frankly if it doesn't happen after Empyre, I don't have high hopes of it happening anytime soon.
    #EmmaWasRight

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Yeah, and the fact that one of her moms come from a place literally called Planeta Fuertona, which are very obviously spanish words, definitely points to the fact that America’s ancestors may have been of latin@ descent. My best guess is that even though her and her moms are not human, they are an evolution of the human species (like mutants) in the future, and one that specifically evolved from latin@ people.
    I think they are not human at all,like kryptonians.
    They just look human.
    I meant to say latinos could have in marvel were created or came from the Utopian Parallel
    too,not just earth.
    One of America chavez's grandmother and mother did not come from there however.
    The reason i said that because i see some folks in comment sections like diversity in comics in youtube and other places saying if she is not human and from another planet that is not earth how could she be a latino?
    There two or three answers for that.

    1-She was adopted or she adopted latino culture and identity overtime on 616 marvel earth.

    or

    2-Looking at her mom's bio and the planet's name,latinos in the marvel universe are not the only from earth but come from fuertona originally too.
    A planet of latinos and their own version of latino culture since there will be differences when she got to earth.

    or

    3-The planet from the Utopian Parallel is not a planet of latinos but some of the names independently developed there like chavez or they had some contact with 616 earth or some other earths in the past that had latinos and had some latino influences and when chavez came to 616 earth, adopted more of the culture overtime and became latino.




    I think it's more closer to 2 and 3,but it's not that clear when i think about it now.
    I think the answer is closer to number 3.
    Anyway it's not that clear in her book how one of her mothers got the name chavez.

    Elena Chavez (Utopian Parallel)
    Trivia
    Amalia and Elena met when they were ten years old.
    Amelia took Elena's last name when they got married.
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Elena...pian_Parallel)
    Last edited by mace11; 03-21-2020 at 05:44 AM.

  6. #456
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Vengeance is so bad that I'm giving McKelvie and Gillen the honorary credit.
    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  7. #457
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    Madrimar (Planeta Fuertona)

    Madrimar was a Fuertona living peacefully on Planeta Fuertona with her daughter until the attack of La Légion. To escape the destruction, Madrimar and Amalia immigrated to the Utopian Parallel.
    Together Madrimar and Amalia lived happily in the Utopian Parallel for over a decade and Amelia married Elena Chavez. As the birth of her granddaughter approached, Madrimar was called upon by great spirits, Berraca and Sanar, to gather the Starlings and rebuild the Planeta Fuertona. Madrimar left on the day of America's birth.
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Madri...neta_Fuertona)
    So it looks like planet fuertona is in another universe called planeta fuertona.
    Utopian parallel is in another universe and that is where elena was born.
    Chavez is a name america and her mother got from the utopian parallel.

    So it looks like the utopian parallel either has limited latino influences from 616 earth or other earths or the name chavez just happen to developed independently or some latino culture independently developed in the utopian parallel but that will not still make them latinos.

    If is that case america was still not born latino and became a latino when she came to 616 earth.

    By the way i look at the recent powers and abilities for chavez in marvel wiki and comicvine.
    She could move near the speed of light,so her updated speed should go from a 3 to a 5 on the marvel powergrid.
    Because of that she could hit harder then ever before.
    Her strength is 5 on the marvel powergrid,25 to 75 tons- marvel wiki.
    I think more closer to 50 to 75 tons if you read the marvel wiki bio.
    More likely 70 to 75 tons if she could pick up a tank and throw it.
    The Comicvine info says her lifting strength could be 100 tons.

    When i think about it now her current powergrid info should look more closer to the 712 hyperion's marvel powegrid.
    Of course before he died he had upgrades too overtime that has not been updated for his powergrid info.
    His marvel bio wiki info has been updated.
    Originally he could only lift 100 tons but later his strength level matched gladiator's, making his strength over 100 tons and incalculable.
    His flight speed level increased to light speed.
    Last edited by mace11; 03-21-2020 at 05:22 AM.

  8. #458
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    The Young Avengers had a flashback cameo on Road To Empyre: The Kree/Skrull War.

    Baby Teddy with wings was cute.

    We get a panel with Wickling recreating the iconic Spider-Man/Mary Jane movie kiss.

    Teddy looked hot AF drawn by Mattia de Iulis on that last page.

    I am satisfied.

  9. #459
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    The Young Avengers had a flashback cameo on Road To Empyre: The Kree/Skrull War.

    Baby Teddy with wings was cute.

    We get a panel with Wickling recreating the iconic Spider-Man/Mary Jane movie kiss.

    Teddy looked hot AF drawn by Mattia de Iulis on that last page.

    I am satisfied.
    The kiss between Billy & Teddy -- I really appreciated that their love wasn't quantified beyond "human".

    "He lived as a human. He loved as a human" (I think that was how it was written -- I lack my copy as I'm at work)

  10. #460
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    It also established Teddy had wings the entire time in the first issue. So was he being carried by Billy because he was in character, or because he just liked having something Billy could do for him? My headcanon is that he did it so he could be closer to Billy, and Billy did it to be closer to Teddy.

  11. #461
    Spectacular Member Storm17's Avatar
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    So does this issue confirm that the Kree/Skrull fleet is coming for earth?

  12. #462
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm17 View Post
    So does this issue confirm that the Kree/Skrull fleet is coming for earth?
    “We fly to Earth” sounds pretty straightforward.

  13. #463
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gch230 View Post
    It also established Teddy had wings the entire time in the first issue. So was he being carried by Billy because he was in character, or because he just liked having something Billy could do for him? My headcanon is that he did it so he could be closer to Billy, and Billy did it to be closer to Teddy.
    Could be because originally he was pretending to have powers derived from the Hulk, and thus deliberately didn't manifest the wings?
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  14. #464
    Incredible Member scourge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gch230 View Post
    It also established Teddy had wings the entire time in the first issue. So was he being carried by Billy because he was in character, or because he just liked having something Billy could do for him? My headcanon is that he did it so he could be closer to Billy, and Billy did it to be closer to Teddy.
    Could also be that as a baby it was an instinctive thing he had to re-learn how to do as he got older.

  15. #465
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Could be because originally he was pretending to have powers derived from the Hulk, and thus deliberately didn't manifest the wings?
    Yeah, they were all aware of their respective power expanse, but were limiting (those who could) the use of said expanse to more appropriately represent the homage to the original Avengers.

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