Young Avengers Appreciation 2020

[Journey]

This is question for all the Wiccan fans that may have been answered already.

Given the option would most Billy fans prefer him to be a mutant just a magic user?

I’m not a huge Wiccan fan, but I prefer it if he would be a human magic user.

I personally prefer him as a mutant. No real reason behind it, it's just how it was pre-axis I liked it that way don't see any point in changing it due to some nonsensical retcon that only happened due to movie rites.

[Wiccan]

He should be a magic user, whether he's a mutant or not... I get that reality warping is technically his power, but it's not hard to say it's connected to magic, considering he's the son of a witch and his soul comes from a demon. I didn't like when Ewing tried to say he didn't have to do with magic at all.

[Personamanx]

Billy is a Jewish, magical cyborg.

[Beetle]

Billy is a Jewish, magical cyborg.

I'd actually kind of love it if Billy's reality warping/magic manifested as a high level coding language/source code of the universe type of thing

It'd be a fun way to portray his powers and give him limitations

[Personamanx]

I'd actually kind of love it if Billy's reality warping/magic manifested as a high level coding language/source code of the universe type of thing

It'd be a fun way to portray his powers and give him limitations

That's true, like his "magic" is being able to use the universe in dev mode. He can do just about anything, but it doesn't always work as intended. The universe might crash is he spawns in too many Hulks.

Also, we haven't been given evidence to suggest that his arms aren't robotic.

[Journey]

Billy is a Jewish, magical cyborg.

Now why is this actually a fire idea.....

[Personamanx]

Now why is this actually a fire idea.....

Bones made of binary code, and blood composed of Chakra!

EDIT: Just realized that a Jewish, and magical cyborg is already a thing. Billy is a Golem.

[Drops Of Venus]

This is question for all the Wiccan fans that may have been answered already.

Given the option would most Billy fans prefer him to be a mutant just a magic user?

I’m not a huge Wiccan fan, but I prefer it if he would be a human magic user.

I don't really have a preference, as I don't think it changes much about the character, but like I've said in the past, I just don't buy him being mutant when writers simply don't write him as such. Outside of one throwaway line in Avengers: The Children's Crusade, there has been no effort to actually show him as a mutant. I'm not saying he should join the X-Men or whatever, but when there was a cloud going around literally poisoning and killing mutantkind, we should've seen how that affected Billy if he was supposed to be a mutant.

Also, if he ever is confirmed to be a mutant indeed, I think his mutation should probably be his electrokinesis (since we know that is the power that he manifested for the first time during puberty/distress), while his reality warping should be chaos magic, related to his spiritual connection to Wanda.

He should be a magic user, whether he's a mutant or not... I get that reality warping is technically his power, but it's not hard to say it's connected to magic, considering he's the son of a witch and his soul comes from a demon. I didn't like when Ewing tried to say he didn't have to do with magic at all.

I don't think Ewing was trying to erase magic from his powers. During the Civil War II tie-in in New Avengers, I think Billy was mostly just doubting himself and wondering if he belonged with the other mages there, but Wanda gave him a pep talk and reassured him of his magic abilities. I think the point was to show Billy being insecure, not to say he doesn't do magic.

[Noek]

This is question for all the Wiccan fans that may have been answered already.

Given the option would most Billy fans prefer him to be a mutant just a magic user?

I’m not a huge Wiccan fan, but I prefer it if he would be a human magic user.

If I had to pick one or the other Magic all the way. He has shown fitting right into the Mystic area of the Marvel universe, and honestly until the X corner realizes their own Magic characters no point of them using more. This all said is anyone here familiar with the LN/Manga/Anime "A Certain Magical Index"? In this Magic is really connected to Religious Lore, how would people feel if Billy's magic worked like this, it being close to Judaic.

Also if people really want a Muntant Young Avenger Tommy is right there. Considering the others when not with the other Young Avengers dive into a Marvel corner why not let Tommy as well have him also interact with Mutants or let him go a little Grey Side.

[Drops Of Venus]

This all said is anyone here familiar with the LN/Manga/Anime "A Certain Magical Index"? In this Magic is really connected to Religious Lore, how would people feel if Billy's magic worked like this, it being close to Judaic.

I'm sure some people would throw a fit due to it being potentially blasphemous, but I wouldn't mind if ''jewish magic'' was a thing. The idea of Billy using jewish symbolism as a source of magic energy is pretty cool. I think it's a perfect way to balance both roots of the character.

Also if people really want a Muntant Young Avenger Tommy is right there. Considering the others when not with the other Young Avengers dive into a Marvel corner why not let Tommy as well have him also interact with Mutants or let him go a little Grey Side.

You know, it could be interesting if Billy wasn't a mutant, but Tommy was. They aren't biologically related to each other, after all, so it's a possibility. Either way, I'm not sure if Tommy being a mutant would actually change the way the character has been treated so far outside of the Young Avengers. It's possible he would still be underutilized.

[Sutekh]

You know, it could be interesting if Billy wasn't a mutant, but Tommy was. They aren't biologically related to each other, after all, so it's a possibility. Either way, I'm not sure if Tommy being a mutant would actually change the way the character has been treated so far outside of the Young Avengers. It's possibly he would still be underutilized.

I would definitely prefer to get as far away as possible from this reality-manipulation stuff. It's just fodder for bad, bad storytelling and crap like No More Mutants and a bunch of heroes talking about how the reality-manipulator needs to be killed off for the greater good. Yuk.

I'd love to find out that the whatever-it-was that gave Wanda reality-manipulation powers had also manifested in Billy, perhaps by accident as they share some sort of metaphysical/spiritual correspondence, perhaps quite deliberately with Billy being a 'backup plan' for whatever sinister intention was behind Wanda having the power in the first place. (In my headcanon, it all ties back to a plan by Chthon, in place since Wanda's birth on Mt. Wundagore, to allow her to unleash enough of his energy into the world to free him from his prison.) And then it could all get wrapped up with a neat little bow in some event where Chthon breaks free once and for all, reclaims this power, transforms the world to his liking (a la Kulan Gath or Morgana le Fey), and then gets curbstomped anyway. Wanda and Billy lose the stank of 'reality manipulation' once and for all, and go forward as a mutant witch (Wanda) and a spellcaster who may or may not also be a mutant (Billy, I don't even care, at this point, so long as his mutation isn't reality manipulation! I do like your idea of Tommy being the mutant in the family, and Billy 'just' being a magician!).

That all said, I also would prefer if Billy's spellcasting had something to do with the sorts of magical invocations that Dr. Strange used to use, back when he was competently written. Vapors of Valtorr, Winds of Watoomb, that sort of thing. Not just random generic 'whatever the hell the writer wants to show him doing this week, that he'll inexplicably be unable to do next week, because it would wreck the plot' magic, which is, sadly, what we've had for the last decade or so.

Have a few spells, a half-dozen or so, tops, that are his go-to invocations (*), and save the character from this 'can do anything, unless it would materially affect the story' trap that magic users tend to get stuck in, at the hands of undisciplined writers.

*And they don't have to all be Dr. Strange classics, like Crimson Bands of Cytorrak. I'd love for him to have a unique signature invocation called 'Thunder of Thor' that summons a bolt of lightning, that he used back in his early days as 'Asgardian.' Being a relative magical newb at the time, he even used a stick to channel the magic, a branch from a lightning-struck tree, that slowly charred away as he used it (so he had to replace his stick from time to time). Give him some physical foci, like that tattered cloak he wears being the 'focus' for the 'Winds of Watoomb' invocation allowing him to fly, or those inscription-etched bracers and headbands and belt buckles that he wears being the foci to anchor a Shields of the Seraphim invocation to provide him some limited protection. Dr. Strange doesn't need physical foci to channel or anchor his invocations, but, gosh, *he's the Sorcerer Supreme,* and Billy's not *quite* there yet.

[Digifiend]

Also, if he ever is confirmed to be a mutant indeed, I think his mutation should probably be his electrokinesis (since we know that is the power that he manifested for the first time during puberty/distress), while his reality warping should be chaos magic, related to his spiritual connection to Wanda.

That certainly would explain why he took Asgardian as his original identity - since electrokinesis emulates one of Thor's main powers.

[Fokken]

Billy: Mutant vs. Magician.

From day one, I wanted Billy to be a mutant -- but that's my own personal bias/adoration for the X-Men. Given the number of mutants in existence whose X-gene grants them access to other dimensional environments/energies (Nightcrawler's BAMF dimension, Illyana's manipulation of Limbo's stepping discs, Cyclops' optic beams somehow related to another dimension, etc) I had crafted this idea that each of Billy's magical effects were in fact a subconscious harnessing of other dimensional properties/energies from a variety of sources, thereby creating a false assumption of reality manipulation. I would still be content with that, in addition to his being trained AS a magician/wizard.

That being said, the mutant vs. magician uncertainty and inconsistency is sincerely disappointing.

At any given time he is referenced as being a mutant (Battle of the Atom, Children's Crusade) while also being excluded from legitimate mutant related storylines but then when such affiliation/association with the mutant community is ignored (New Avengers for example, and the Terrigen Mist fiasco plaguing mutants) and he is more recognized as a magic community member -- he is excluded from THOSE storylines (Aaron's Doctor Strange involving all magicians losing their magic and being hunted etc).

Siiiigh.

I've always found his "casting" haphazardly charming -- similar to poor Nico Minoru's struggle to find the appropriate vocabulary for success. I would certainly get on board with his crafting unique -- even silly fanboy related terminology -- for his future "feats".

[Synestra]

Personally I didn't mind Wiccan being a mutant or not either way, but if I had to choose I suppose I'd go with him a magic user instead. His brand of magic and reality warping is unique, and I like the idea of him maintaining a unique background all together. While being a mutant would work, we already have god-like mutant characters. But I wouldn't be upset if they did confirm him to be a mutant though.

[Drops Of Venus]

Personally I didn't mind Wiccan being a mutant or not either way, but if I had to choose I suppose I'd go with him a magic user instead. His brand of magic and reality warping is unique, and I like the idea of him maintaining a unique background all together. While being a mutant would work, we already have god-like mutant characters. But I wouldn't be upset if they did confirm him to be a mutant though.

Yeah, that's one of Billy's appeals to me, which is why I said I would only want his electrokinesis to be his mutant power. I mean, his reality warping has a whole background that could involve the Scarlet Witch, Mephisto and Chthon... how many characters get to have that kind of story? I wouldn't like if they tried to downplay that by saying all his powers come from an X-Gene. It would make him seem less special/unique, IMO.

And as a site note, I feel like now would be a horrible time for Billy to be confirmed as a mutant due to what's going on with the X-Men. I don't want Billy to be thrown in the middle of a conflict that's similar to what Franklin Richards is going through, 'cause I feel like that would just lead to some shitty AvX 2.0 scenario, and I don't think either side of the fandom wants that right now.