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  1. #1741
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I wonder how those weirdo fetishizer Stucky shippers will react to an actual gay couple like BillyTeddy lmao! They can't be weird about how they're subtext-ually star crossed lovers and the women in their lives are Lilith incarnate when Billy and Teddy are actually star crossed lovers, and the only women in their lives are either queer as well (or on their way to being, hehe...) or in Cassie's case, too young.

    Granted, with spoilers:
    Sylvie being rumored to appear in Loki
    end of spoilers I hope that Marvel doesn't do some wack "he'll be gay eventually" starter relationship based on a single cover where Billy and her are uncomfortably close, and given that the arc it happened in could be coming too... Lemme not think of the nightmare scenarios and just enjoy the calm before the storm that will be my Twitter when Billy and Tommy make their debut.

    And in terms of another Stucky, my bets are on either SpideyTorch OR with marvel seemingly gungho about representation, maybe if they intro Bobby as gay from the start, I can see him being one half of a gay/straight unrequited womp-fest with maybe Peter or another guy.
    I ship(ped) Stucky in the MCU, and I don't see why you think people who did so would possibly react negatively to Billy and Teddy...

  2. #1742
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I ship(ped) Stucky in the MCU, and I don't see why you think people who did so would possibly react negatively to Billy and Teddy...
    That comment was towards the shippers who would openly harass Emily Vancamp (Sharon's actress) because they saw her as "in the way" of Stucky, and those who shipped Stucky, but in a way that fetishized their weird fantasy of gay men and not bc they actually thought of them as a good couple (ie someone, in the case of MCU Stucky stans, young straight girls, who would fawn over their "forbidden love" but in the same breath wouldn't give a damn about actual gay/queer rights). To them, it would be less about the ship itself and more the hype/fandom of being able to stan the ship. Since BillyTeddy (hopefully) won't have any of those same roadblocks, they may react negatively, or use the common excuse of "they're boring, I want juicy drama romances!1!1!1!" because they lose out on the "we know something you don't" aspect of Stucky.

    Apologies if I offended you, but my teasing was towards a very specific subset of shippers, not all of them.
    Last edited by Waking Replica; 12-02-2020 at 08:02 AM.

  3. #1743
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    It's finally here!!!! Hailee on set as Kate!!! (Ft Clint and Lucky!!)

    https://twitter.com/MultiverseMurph/...745567234?s=19

  4. #1744
    Fantastic Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    If that rumor is true, I can't wait until the ''she's gonna be a Young Avenger!!'' theories from MCU locals.... Although her presence on the show is probably just to tie loose ends from the spoilers:
    Black Widow movie
    end of spoilers
    I dunno...spoilers:
    Pugh and Steinfeld are going to be the same age in two weeks, and Clintasha was a very big ship before she died/it was revealed Hawkeye was married. With America so young, doing a revamped Hawkeye/Black Widow ship with Kate and Yelena wouldn't be too crazy.
    end of spoilers

  5. #1745
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    Clearer video of Hailee as Kate!!

    https://twitter.com/HSteinfeldNews/s...958096384?s=19

  6. #1746
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post

  7. #1747
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    I know it's a small thing, but I hope her having that bow with her means she's already a trained archer. I can already see them making Kate less experienced to give MCU Clint a reason to interact with her to teach her, but I hope she's not MCU Spidey'd and too reliant on him.

  8. #1748
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    So David today in X-Factor confessed that he thinks he was murdered and I can't help but notice his last on panel interaction Privy too his x-factor debut was when he was messing around with Tommy. That being said Leah also was seen liking a lot of Thinkfast post on Twitter when that moment happened implying she intends to address their situation anyone else think Tommy killed David maybe No just me? Not in character but I'd fucks with the drama.
    Last edited by Journey; 12-02-2020 at 05:06 PM.

  9. #1749
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    THIS IS A KATE BISHOP AND LUCKY THE PIZZA DOG APPRECIATION POST.



    God, I love them already. But also, what the hell is she wearing? Looks like literal pajamas. Maybe it's like a homemade costume or something? They're probably shooting the first episode, so it makes sense she wouldn't have her final suit yet.

    On another note, remember when I was talking about Hollywood and hair colors? Well, seems like they DID bother to ask Hailee to dye her hair black for the role. So I guess there is hope for a black haired Billy Kaplan (assuming we get him and don't just get stuck with William Maximoff permanently).

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    What an ironic person to cast for the best friend/love interest for Ms. Marvel, of all characters (who literally spent an entire issue trying to spur people to vote against Trump).
    In Marvel's defense, it was something so minor that they probably wouldn't know about (the actor never openly talked about supporting Trump, he just liked a few pro-Trump tweets and then unliked them when people called him out), but still... it ended up being an unfortunate choice to cast someone who seems to like a politician that argued that muslim people should be banned from entering the USA on a show about a muslim (from an immigrant family, nonetheless) lead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    Granted, with spoilers:
    Sylvie being rumored to appear in Loki
    end of spoilers I hope that Marvel doesn't do some wack "he'll be gay eventually" starter relationship based on a single cover where Billy and her are uncomfortably close, and given that the arc it happened in could be coming too... Lemme not think of the nightmare scenarios and just enjoy the calm before the storm that will be my Twitter when Billy and Tommy make their debut.
    I still don't know if I believe that spoilers:
    Sylvie Lushton will really be on the Loki show. It's just such a strange choice to use her when we've never even seen Amora yet. Although I guess it's possible we're getting the two Enchantresses on the show for some reason... and if the Loki show sets up Kid Loki for the Young Avengers, maybe Sylvie is also being set up for the Young Masters when/if they debut as YA villains in the MCU.
    end of spoilers

    But I wouldn't worry about either of Billy and Teddy getting a ''straightbait'' kind of love interest. The comics were always pretty straightforward (or gayforward, if you will) with their relationship, with them being a couple from the very beginning, so I don't think there is much room to fabricate other relationships for them, specially het ones, without receiving a huge backlash. The Runaways show was able to get away with straightbaiting Karolina/Chase because the comics did that too. But with Young Avengers... it just wouldn't go over well. And Teddy possibly being cast alongside Billy on WandaVision is a sign they know this and want them to already have some connection/chemistry from the beginning, IMO.

    And in terms of another Stucky, my bets are on either SpideyTorch OR with marvel seemingly gungho about representation, maybe if they intro Bobby as gay from the start, I can see him being one half of a gay/straight unrequited womp-fest with maybe Peter or another guy.
    Oh yeah, I could definitely see them doing something like that with Bobby. Which I guess would be less worse than Stucky since one of the characters would at least be canonically gay, but it would still be a little annoying. I hope Bobby gets to have a real love interest. Since I'm already an IceFrost shipper in the comics, I hope they use Christian in the MCU as well. It would be a good way to set up Emma in that universe too, since I'm sure the MCU will want to use her at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I know it's a small thing, but I hope her having that bow with her means she's already a trained archer. I can already see them making Kate less experienced to give MCU Clint a reason to interact with her to teach her, but I hope she's not MCU Spidey'd and too reliant on him.
    That's been my concern as well. I hope Kate has some backstory of her own instead of her entire superhero motivation revolving around Clint and wanting to be just like him. I find it unlikely they're giving her Heinberg's sexual assault origin (because, let's be real, Marvel did a terrible job in developing that plot point in the comics themselves; it was just completely ignored), but I do hope they come up with something that makes her independent from Clint at some level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    So David today in X-Factor confessed that he thinks he was murdered and I can't help but notice his last on panel interaction Privy too his x-factor debut was when he was messing around with Tommy. That being said Leah also was seen liking a lot of Thinkfast post on Twitter when that moment happened implying she intends to address their situation anyone else think Tommy killed David maybe No just me? Not in character but I'd fucks with the drama.
    Hopefully not.... I mean, why the hell would Tommy kill David? Unless it was an accident. But I don't see how that accomplishes anything within the story. And I'm still on wait and see mode with Leah, because I'm still not totally convinced she's really gonne use Tommy in X-Factor.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 12-02-2020 at 09:33 PM.

  10. #1750
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    THIS IS A KATE BISHOP AND LUCKY THE PIZZA DOG APPRECIATION POST.



    God, I love them already. But also, what the hell is she wearing? Looks like literal pajamas. Maybe it's like a homemade costume or something? They're probably shooting the first episode, so it makes sense she wouldn't have her final suit yet.

    On another note, remember when I was talking about Hollywood and hair colors? Well, seems like they DID bother to ask Hailee to dye her hair black for the role. So I guess there is hope for a black haired Billy Kaplan (assuming we get him and don't just get stuck with William Maximoff permanently).
    I was kind of wondering how much she would look like Kate, but with the darker hair she definitely fits the bill visually (along with the purple clothes).

    I'm guessing Clint grabs her and Lucky from home before she had the chance to change out of her PJ's.
    In Marvel's defense, it was something so minor that they probably wouldn't know about (the actor never openly talked about supporting Trump, he just liked a few tweets and then unliked them when people pointed out), but still... it ended up being an unfortunate choice to cast someone who's supported a politician who argued that muslim people should be banned from entering the USA on a show about a muslim (from an immigrant family, nonetheless) lead.
    And, again, spent an entire comic trying to get people to vote against him .
    That's been my concern as well. I hope Kate has some backstory of her own instead of her entire superhero motivation revolving around Clint and wanting to be just like him. I find it unlikely they're giving her Heinberg's sexual assault origin (because, let's be real, Marvel did a terrible job in developing that plot point in the comics themselves; it was just completely ignored), but I do hope they come up with something that makes her independent from Clint at some level.
    I'm fine so long as it's different from their comic dynamic.

  11. #1751
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    That comment was towards the shippers who would openly harass Emily Vancamp (Sharon's actress) because they saw her as "in the way" of Stucky, and those who shipped Stucky, but in a way that fetishized their weird fantasy of gay men and not bc they actually thought of them as a good couple (ie someone, in the case of MCU Stucky stans, young straight girls, who would fawn over their "forbidden love" but in the same breath wouldn't give a damn about actual gay/queer rights). To them, it would be less about the ship itself and more the hype/fandom of being able to stan the ship. Since BillyTeddy (hopefully) won't have any of those same roadblocks, they may react negatively, or use the common excuse of "they're boring, I want juicy drama romances!1!1!1!" because they lose out on the "we know something you don't" aspect of Stucky.

    Apologies if I offended you, but my teasing was towards a very specific subset of shippers, not all of them.
    I do know about the Stuckies who do that kind of stuff. But either way, either them or the "good ones" have no reason to dislike Billy/Teddy as as ship. If they're really just fetishizers then they won't think twice about shipping a couple of cute twinks(or twink/twunk lol). From what I remember the whole "they have drama/angst/a forbidden love" thing was mostly in regards to people going "Well why don't you ship Steve with [X person] then???".

    I didn't quite understand why I felt like that about it myself when I don't usually just ship any two male best friends like some of those people do, and then Defenders(the Netflix crossover show) came out. Watching Matt/Elektra in that, I was like... Wait, that's pretty much Stucky in TWS/CW.
    And that's when I realized that(imo I guess), they have this sort of narrative where if Bucky was a female character, it would undoubtedly be a romance.

    "I'm the main male hero protagonist guy and this person I care about has turned evil(Bucky and Elektra being brainwashed and used as a weapon by Hydra/The Hand is especially similar) and as a hero I should stop them and everyone around me is kinda trying to do that, but ugh I love them!" It's like basic Dark Phoenix shit.

    You didn't offend me, I was mostly just trying to point out that, as a gay guy, I don't think shipping Stucky(or any/most non-canon ships really?) is this sort of bizarre thing that only "crazy fetishizers" do.
    Last edited by Wiccan; 12-02-2020 at 10:33 PM.

  12. #1752
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    You didn't offend me, I was mostly just trying to point out that, as a gay guy, I don't think shipping Stucky(or any/most non-canon ships really?) is this sort of bizarre thing that only "crazy fetishizers" do.
    Gosh, I honestly should've worded that differently. But when I talked about the crazy fetishizers, I meant that specific subset of fans. I don't think shipping Stucky, or shipping in general, makes you a weirdo fetishizer at all. I myself am a firm believer in shipping non canon pairings to anyone's heart's content (reasonably speaking of course)! I mean, just look at my ao3 history and you'll see LOL!

    But I totally get what you mean, it's very enemies to lovers, if we want to talk fanfic tropes lol.

  13. #1753
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    So David today in X-Factor confessed that he thinks he was murdered and I can't help but notice his last on panel interaction Privy too his x-factor debut was when he was messing around with Tommy. That being said Leah also was seen liking a lot of Thinkfast post on Twitter when that moment happened implying she intends to address their situation anyone else think Tommy killed David maybe No just me? Not in character but I'd fucks with the drama.
    Me: *Looks at all my posts complaining about how the x-office is absolute poison to anyone with Maximoff DNA (or soul signature, whichever really) and that getting them involved is just asking for x-writers to take a dump on them to make the x-heroes look better*

    Also me: Hehe...that'd be dramatic for sure.... *Awkward and stifled laughter continues*

    And now my dramatic brain is now making me think of a scenario where Tommy finds David gravely injured and speeds towards a gate to plead for them to help David, but they take him without letting Tommy come with, and now Tommy's left in the dark about how David is doing, and..... *spirals into a dark hole of angst potential*

  14. #1754
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I didn't quite understand why I felt like that about it myself when I don't usually just ship any two male best friends like some of those people do, and then Defenders(the Netflix crossover show) came out. Watching Matt/Elektra in that, I was like... Wait, that's pretty much Stucky in TWS/CW.
    And that's when I realized that(imo I guess), they have this sort of narrative where if Bucky was a female character, it would undoubtedly be a romance.

    "I'm the main male hero protagonist guy and this person I care about has turned evil(Bucky and Elektra being brainwashed and used as a weapon by Hydra/The Hand is especially similar) and as a hero I should stop them and everyone around me is kinda trying to do that, but ugh I love them!" It's like basic Dark Phoenix shit.
    The difference is Matt and Elektra met each other when they were young adults and pretty much started flirting with each other from that moment. They actually had a relationship before Elektra was killed, resurrected and brainwashed. Steve and Bucky are implied to have been best friends probably since they were kids and has stayed that way. I'm not against Stucky for any homophobic reasons or because it didn't happen in the comics or whatever. I just don't think they were written that way from the start.

    As much as I think LGBT representation is more important, I also think we should normalise men having love for each other without it meaning they have to be romantically involved. You might think it's normalised but actually try to think of another deep but platonic relationship between two men in film. The only other one that comes to my head is Sam and Frodo from the Lord of the Rings trilogy and many people interpret that one to be a gay relationship too.

    Although I'll admit that I would have found Stucky more interesting than Steve and Peggy, which was just a weird one-sided thing.

  15. #1755
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    Me: *Looks at all my posts complaining about how the x-office is absolute poison to anyone with Maximoff DNA (or soul signature, whichever really) and that getting them involved is just asking for x-writers to take a dump on them to make the x-heroes look better*

    Also me: Hehe...that'd be dramatic for sure.... *Awkward and stifled laughter continues*

    And now my dramatic brain is now making me think of a scenario where Tommy finds David gravely injured and speeds towards a gate to plead for them to help David, but they take him without letting Tommy come with, and now Tommy's left in the dark about how David is doing, and..... *spirals into a dark hole of angst potential*
    I hope that, if Billy and Tommy ever go to Krakoa, Billy is written as being like "Stop hating on Wanda! No More Mutant was years ago! She's changed! We all make mistakes!", like an analogy to twitter "cancel culture".

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    The difference is Matt and Elektra met each other when they were young adults and pretty much started flirting with each other from that moment. They actually had a relationship before Elektra was killed, resurrected and brainwashed. Steve and Bucky are implied to have been best friends probably since they were kids and has stayed that way. I'm not against Stucky for any homophobic reasons or because it didn't happen in the comics or whatever. I just don't think they were written that way from the start.

    As much as I think LGBT representation is more important, I also think we should normalise men having love for each other without it meaning they have to be romantically involved. You might think it's normalised but actually try to think of another deep but platonic relationship between two men in film. The only other one that comes to my head is Sam and Frodo from the Lord of the Rings trilogy and many people interpret that one to be a gay relationship too.

    Although I'll admit that I would have found Stucky more interesting than Steve and Peggy, which was just a weird one-sided thing.
    I really don't think this thread should be derailed by Stucky discourse... I should have probably not said that much about it to begin with. But anyway.

    I know they weren't written that way. But that's the point I'm making. By the way that their story goes, if Bucky was a female character they most likely would have. It's called heteronormativity. The fact that they were childhood friends doesn't really change anything imo cause there's like a million stories where two opposite-gender childhood friends realize they're in love with each other after they grow up, and/or one has always been pining for the other.

    I'm honestly not even criticizing Marvel. Like of course they wouldn't do that. I'm just explaining why I feel like there's more to it than just "they're just guys who are friends and people ship them for no reason".

    I actually quite liked Steve/Peggy in the first movie, I think CEvans and Hayley have good chemistry and it was interesting as this sort of tragic romance that didn't get to come to fruition. Then Endgame happened, with no buildup, after Peggy had moved on already on Agent Carter, and yeah, no.

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