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  1. #1201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    In New Avengers Billy only needed to use one sentence towards the end of the run. And he can use certain powers without the speaking aspect such as flight and sometimes teleporting. His powers are wishy washy fitting with his personality. I'm more curious as to why his powers are being addressed as "spells" and "magic" considering Ewing was the one who doubled down by saying what Billy does is not magic that kind of just stuck out to me since he's continuity king.

    No writer has the balls to break up Marvel's most well known powerful gay couple. Though it's only a matter of time before some jackass writer uses Billy as a plot device has him go insane or some shit and pull a Wanda just to kill him off with an eventual resurrection.... I've been dreading it for years I know it's coming. Teddy will be fine though.
    Is Nico/ Karolina considered their most powerful lesbian couple?
    Last edited by Will Evans; 08-13-2020 at 08:55 AM.

  2. #1202
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Ahhhhh this looks so good already, adore your style! I also loved your other piece with Kate, America, Billy, and the Watts siblings!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Personally...I think they should be evolving it...from chanting repeatedly to thinking repeatedly to just thinking it once and it happens. Basically showing his is gaining more control over his powers.

    For example if he wanted to start a fire in a fireplace or a campfire he would just think once 'fire' and star or point at the site he wanted the fire to start.


    As far as Billy and Teddy being married...not to be "that guy"...but how long will it last? I was talking to my comic shop guy when I went to get my weekly fix and we started talking about how many marriages have actually lasted. Reed and Sue of course, Medusa and Black Bolt, Luke and Jess, and most recently Rogue and Gambit got hitched. Then Pete and MJ, Hank and Jan, Clint and Bobbi, etc....Marvel's track record of successful marriages is not that great.

    Just imagine the outrage when a writer comes along and breaks them up....because reasons....
    I think they're safe. They don't have A-list status, meaning no one's gonna be clamouring for them to be relatable, single, or young, especially when the audience that Marvel mainly panders to when they do those shock breakups/return to status quos aren't the ones that consume media with Billy and Teddy. I've said this before, but I feel its legitimately against Marvel's best interest to break them up because like 99% of people who like them, like them as a couple. Sure, someone may be brought on that wants to pull some shit, but the likelihood the Avengers office would let it happen is slim. And considering Empyre happened in the first place, which included their wedding, I think its safe to say that they're all in with them together.

    But at the end of the day, who knows. I can only hope they really support them as a married couple.

  3. #1203
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Thanks so much, Walking Replica !!

  4. #1204
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    I find it charming and sets him apart from other magic users -- like Zatanna in DC speaking in reverse.
    When Billy casts, I imagine the words echo/reverberate and overlap to the point of eventually being difficult to discern what's being said -- making it that much more ooky spooky magic speaky. haha
    I've always wondered how his powers would be portrayed in an audio-visual media like animation or live-action. Does his voice change? Do the surroundings change, since he's essentially warping the reality around him? I like the idea of his words producing an echo of sorts, and you can kind of see that affecting the things and people around him in a very psychedelic way. I really hope they don't just copy and paste Wanda's powerset to give them to Billy in the MCU with a blue repaint, because it would be kind of boring. Even if he's not as powerful as he is in the comics, I hope they keep the aspect of turning words into magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    I also liked when Zeb Wells(?) added, during the Civil War mini with the Runaways, that Billy needed to hear himself. I enjoy limitations and impediments. I don't know if that's still a thing though. It added to the concept of "words have power" to me, magically speaking.
    I used to dislike that at first, but I've grown to enjoy that limitation and I'd be interested to see it explored again. Like, what would happen if a villain took advantage of that weakness, again, and found a way to make Billy lose his hearing? We saw that with the Warden for a bit, but I mean seeing that story in a longer arc. We could explore the idea of Billy reaching out to a group of deaf mages who teach him how to do magic through sign language... that could be pretty cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    WEEERRRK! I love when you color your stuff, Fokken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    In New Avengers Billy only needed to use one sentence towards the end of the run. And he can use certain powers without the speaking aspect such as flight and sometimes teleporting. His powers are wishy washy fitting with his personality. I'm more curious as to why his powers are being addressed as "spells" and "magic" considering Ewing was the one who doubled down by saying what Billy does is not magic that kind of just stuck out to me since he's continuity king.
    I don't think that's what Ewing meant during his New Avengers run. The way he wrote it, Billy was doubting himself as a mage, and Wanda was reassuring him that he could, in fact, do magic. I don't think we were supposed to think Wanda was wrong, specially considering she is more experienced with magic than he is. If the Scarlet Witch tells you you can do magic, then who are you to even say otherwise? And let us not forget that Doctor Strange also reached out to Billy to consider him as a potential Sorcerer Supreme way back on Bendis' New Avengers, so that makes two experienced mages who think he has magical potential.



    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Is Nico/ Karolina considered their most powerful lesbian couple?
    I think Deanoru is still very green to reach that position. They've only been together for two years, and with Nico's bad history at romantic relationships with other Runaways, I'm not holding my breath that they're gonna be solid teflon when the next writer comes along. The TV show could've elevated their position, but that got cancelled, so... Runaways is just so niche that I don't know if any of them will ever really be at the forefront of the Marvel Universe, but I could be wrong. You never know what the future holds. Let's see 15 years from now if they are where B&T are today.

    But you actually raised an interesting point... DOES Marvel have a lesbian couple that feels as prominent and ''power couple'' as Billy and Teddy? 'Cause I honestly can't think of one, and that sucks. Mystique and Destiny are probably their most iconic lesbian couple, but that doesn't translate into good representation when most of their history together was subtext. Hickman has the chance to rectify that during his run, but I don't know if he will, considering Irene being dead and not being able to come back is a huge part of his story. I think Phyla-Vell/Moondragon and Angela/Sera are lesbian couples with a lot of potential to be the staple lesbian couple of Marvel someday, but they need to make their relationships relevant again. It seems like Ewing's GOTG is trying to do that with the former, so hopefully it lasts (and hopefully they will remember to bring 616 Phyla back like they did with Heather).
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 08-13-2020 at 12:05 PM.

  5. #1205
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Per the visual effect, DoV, I imagine this....heat wave around him(?) ....like in movies when the people are in the desert for example, and there is this visual wave or shimmer in the air around them indicating a dramatic increase of heat? Do you know what I mean? Like, for me that would be cool and subtle in that he is affecting the environment around him, bending reality.

    Thanks for the kind words about the coloring too.


    Also I adore the idea of hand dexterity with using powers -- like on the show The Magicians, and the tutting they do to cast.

  6. #1206
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I've always wondered how his powers would be portrayed in an audio-visual media like animation or live-action. Does his voice change? Do the surroundings change, since he's essentially warping the reality around him? I like the idea of his words producing an echo of sorts, and you can kind of see that affecting the things and people around him in a very psychedelic way. I really hope they don't just copy and paste Wanda's powerset to give them to Billy in the MCU with a blue repaint, because it would be kind of boring. Even if he's not as powerful as he is in the comics, I hope they keep the aspect of turning words into magic.



    I used to dislike that at first, but I've grown to enjoy that limitation and I'd be interested to see it explored again. Like, what would happen if a villain took advantage of that weakness, again, and found a way to make Billy lose his hearing? We saw that with the Warden for a bit, but I mean seeing that story in a longer arc. We could explore the idea of Billy reaching out to a group of deaf mages who teach him how to do magic through sign language... that could be pretty cool.



    WEEERRRK! I love when you color your stuff, Fokken.



    I don't think that's what Ewing meant during his New Avengers run. The way he wrote it, Billy was doubting himself as a mage, and Wanda was reassuring him that he could, in fact, do magic. I don't think we were supposed to think Wanda was wrong, specially considering she is more experienced with magic than he is. If the Scarlet Witch tells you you can do magic, then who are you to even say otherwise? And let us not forget that Doctor Strange also reached out to Billy to consider him as a potential Sorcerer Supreme way back on Bendis' New Avengers, so that makes two experienced mages who think he has magical potential.

    .
    Honestly it doesn't seem to me like Wanda means it literally. It's more of a cheesy ~It's all magic if you believe~ kind of thing if you get what I mean. The fact that Billy was brought in as a mage with everyone else like it's a given and Ewing still had him point out that he's not the same says all about how he views Billy's powers imo.

  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Honestly it doesn't seem to me like Wanda means it literally. It's more of a cheesy ~It's all magic if you believe~ kind of thing if you get what I mean. The fact that Billy was brought in as a mage with everyone else like it's a given and Ewing still had him point out that he's not the same says all about how he views Billy's powers imo.
    But what about Tommy then? Still a mutant??

  8. #1208
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    I find it charming and sets him apart from other magic users -- like Zatanna in DC speaking in reverse.
    When Billy casts, I imagine the words echo/reverberate and overlap to the point of eventually being difficult to discern what's being said -- making it that much more ooky spooky magic speaky. haha
    I agree. Ewing was transitioning Billy to doing spells with a single word towards the end of NA, trying to show that he's more powerful and more in control. But I always felt like that was too broken for other writers to be able to use him consistently. The chanting allows us to see his intent, it gives us a visual to see when the spell starts or if it fails. It gives an opportunity for someone to interrupt

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Very nice, that's Teddy beside him right? I really like how Billy's hands are blue and then transitions to the starfield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    In New Avengers Billy only needed to use one sentence towards the end of the run. And he can use certain powers without the speaking aspect such as flight and sometimes teleporting. His powers are wishy washy fitting with his personality. I'm more curious as to why his powers are being addressed as "spells" and "magic" considering Ewing was the one who doubled down by saying what Billy does is not magic that kind of just stuck out to me since he's continuity king.
    I think Ewing's position is that Billy's powers are "bigger than magic". He doesn't have the same limitations that regular sorcerers do, he doesn't have to follow their rules. Like Mur-G'nn with the Secret fire. He can make his own rules.

    It's similar to what Ewing was doing with the Ultimates in the Superflow. Symbology and belief have a lot of power, so the more Billy believes in his vows to Teddy the more power he gives them and that tether between them.

  9. #1209
    Spectacular Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    I've always thought that page was Al making a point that Billy is sort of like, magic+ if that makes sense? His soul was born from Wanda's magic, and I'm sure there had to be magic for his and Tommy's, as Al awesomely put, retro-reincarnation. Not to mention he is technically part demon-ish from being made from Mephisto shards, and he's magic too right? Given the circumstances of his coming into existence, I feel like he stands out from most of the other magic people (at least as far as I know) as being very close to the concept of magic itself, which in turn makes his version of it different (idk where the logic is, so just go along with my rambly hc lol). Which makes sense because he's supposed to rewrite the rules of magic throughout time and space someday, which would mean that he never went by those rules in the first place, right?

    But, there was this really cool post on Tumblr that noticed something connecting Al's Ultimates run and Billy (it's on my reading list so haven't read it yet, but I did end up searching through the wikis to look up stuff). In the Ultimates, Al has this concept of the Ultimate Ultimates (https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Ultimates_(Multiverse)), and one of them represents the Fifth Cosmos, where it was the "Maker of magic, Weaver of the Illusions of change". Fifth cosmos was also the home of Moridun, the budget Cthulu that got beat by Billy's depression (#relatable). While that's more of a small connection, the fact that the title of the Fifth is very close to what Billy does makes me wonder if Al maybe has some plans for Billy and his magic, but maybe the person who noticed this and I are just reading into something that's not there lol.

  10. #1210
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I've always thought that page was Al making a point that Billy is sort of like, magic+ if that makes sense? His soul was born from Wanda's magic, and I'm sure there had to be magic for his and Tommy's, as Al awesomely put, retro-reincarnation. Not to mention he is technically part demon-ish from being made from Mephisto shards, and he's magic too right? Given the circumstances of his coming into existence, I feel like he stands out from most of the other magic people (at least as far as I know) as being very close to the concept of magic itself, which in turn makes his version of it different (idk where the logic is, so just go along with my rambly hc lol). Which makes sense because he's supposed to rewrite the rules of magic throughout time and space someday, which would mean that he never went by those rules in the first place, right?

    But, there was this really cool post on Tumblr that noticed something connecting Al's Ultimates run and Billy (it's on my reading list so haven't read it yet, but I did end up searching through the wikis to look up stuff). In the Ultimates, Al has this concept of the Ultimate Ultimates (https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Ultimates_(Multiverse)), and one of them represents the Fifth Cosmos, where it was the "Maker of magic, Weaver of the Illusions of change". Fifth cosmos was also the home of Moridun, the budget Cthulu that got beat by Billy's depression (#relatable). While that's more of a small connection, the fact that the title of the Fifth is very close to what Billy does makes me wonder if Al maybe has some plans for Billy and his magic, but maybe the person who noticed this and I are just reading into something that's not there lol.
    Even wearing a hood I read it way back when I though there was a chance that could Billy too fits with the whole Demiurge mantra too that being said nothing came from it so I never gave it much weight. Totally could be Billy though.

  11. #1211
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Honestly it doesn't seem to me like Wanda means it literally. It's more of a cheesy ~It's all magic if you believe~ kind of thing if you get what I mean. The fact that Billy was brought in as a mage with everyone else like it's a given and Ewing still had him point out that he's not the same says all about how he views Billy's powers imo.
    Ewing just literally referred to Billy's powers as magic in Empyre #5, though. So whatever he was trying to say in that page, it probably wasn't that he couldn't do magic. Maybe his powers work in a different way, but it's still some type of magic. Even Excelsior is repeatedly referred to as a magic sword. I don't see why Ewing would be against Billy, someone who's been consistently portrayed as mage, having magic powers when even Teddy gets to have some magic on his mythology too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I've always thought that page was Al making a point that Billy is sort of like, magic+ if that makes sense? His soul was born from Wanda's magic, and I'm sure there had to be magic for his and Tommy's, as Al awesomely put, retro-reincarnation. Not to mention he is technically part demon-ish from being made from Mephisto shards, and he's magic too right? Given the circumstances of his coming into existence, I feel like he stands out from most of the other magic people (at least as far as I know) as being very close to the concept of magic itself, which in turn makes his version of it different (idk where the logic is, so just go along with my rambly hc lol). Which makes sense because he's supposed to rewrite the rules of magic throughout time and space someday, which would mean that he never went by those rules in the first place, right?

    But, there was this really cool post on Tumblr that noticed something connecting Al's Ultimates run and Billy (it's on my reading list so haven't read it yet, but I did end up searching through the wikis to look up stuff). In the Ultimates, Al has this concept of the Ultimate Ultimates (https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Ultimates_(Multiverse)), and one of them represents the Fifth Cosmos, where it was the "Maker of magic, Weaver of the Illusions of change". Fifth cosmos was also the home of Moridun, the budget Cthulu that got beat by Billy's depression (#relatable). While that's more of a small connection, the fact that the title of the Fifth is very close to what Billy does makes me wonder if Al maybe has some plans for Billy and his magic, but maybe the person who noticed this and I are just reading into something that's not there lol.
    I saw that Tumblr post too, and it was a nice catch. The Fifth definitely looks like Billy, when you look at the page:



    I think it's possible that The Fifth and the Demiurge are just the same person. It wouldn't be the first time Ewing writes about the Demiurge. He wrote an AU in which Doctor Doom lost all his magical powers after the Demiurge rewrote the laws of magic in the universe. And even if that is a future Billy, the thing is... Billy's Demiurge seems to be a development that happens in the far, faaar future. So I don't expect us to get any kind of story about Billy becoming the Demiurge during our living years, LOL. At best, we'll probably get an arc about Billy meeting his future, Demiurge self, which could be cool.

  12. #1212
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    I agree. Ewing was transitioning Billy to doing spells with a single word towards the end of NA, trying to show that he's more powerful and more in control. But I always felt like that was too broken for other writers to be able to use him consistently. The chanting allows us to see his intent, it gives us a visual to see when the spell starts or if it fails. It gives an opportunity for someone to interrupt



    Very nice, that's Teddy beside him right? I really like how Billy's hands are blue and then transitions to the starfield.



    I think Ewing's position is that Billy's powers are "bigger than magic". He doesn't have the same limitations that regular sorcerers do, he doesn't have to follow their rules. Like Mur-G'nn with the Secret fire. He can make his own rules.

    It's similar to what Ewing was doing with the Ultimates in the Superflow. Symbology and belief have a lot of power, so the more Billy believes in his vows to Teddy the more power he gives them and that tether between them.
    Yes it is Teddy beside him. Thanks!



    I also enjoy the power/belief narrative very much. When it comes to characters who are commonly considered OP (which I've never gravitated toward until Billy), providing them with reasonable and relatable flaws and challenges make them all the more entertaining to read.


    ALSO: Valerio Schiti tweeted that he's working on new #1. Wouldn't it be tremendous if said #1 were Young Avenger related????
    Last edited by Fokken; 08-14-2020 at 04:25 AM.

  13. #1213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I've always wondered how his powers would be portrayed in an audio-visual media like animation or live-action. Does his voice change? Do the surroundings change, since he's essentially warping the reality around him? I like the idea of his words producing an echo of sorts, and you can kind of see that affecting the things and people around him in a very psychedelic way. I really hope they don't just copy and paste Wanda's powerset to give them to Billy in the MCU with a blue repaint, because it would be kind of boring. Even if he's not as powerful as he is in the comics, I hope they keep the aspect of turning words into magic.
    I like the quantum-magick-y idea of having an overlapping echo of his voice, as if many Billy's, from many different alternate realities, are all distantly audible saying the same thing at the same time. For those actually present, the different voices might sound like they are coming from all many different directions, as well, not just from Billy's direction.

    As for the actual nature of his power, I tend to prefer magic to be quantifiable and have rules and whatnot. Invocations like the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak and Winds of Watoomb and Vapors of Valtorr are my jam.

    But for Billy, that all goes out the window. He's got the power of possibility. Of potential made reality. No invocations of extra-dimensional yobbos need apply. What he does can be called magic, but while Dr. Strange has a finely tuned set of spells memorized and codified over centuries by other sorcerers, drawing power from all sorts of diverse sources, Billy's just got a big firehose of magic and watch out!
    Last edited by Sutekh; 08-14-2020 at 05:00 AM.

  14. #1214
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    THIS VARIANT COVER LMAOOOOOOOO I'M DYING
    SO MUCH GOING ON HERE



    WHY ON EARTH IS SPIDEY/SHULKIE FRONT AND CENTER INSTEAD OF BILLY AND TEDDY?? But they cute, so I'll allow it.

    B&T dramatically dancing on the cake, I LOVE THEIR GAY ASSES!

    STEVE ROGERS IS BUTTING BUTTS WITH AMERICA CHAVEZ! I REPEAT: STEVE ROGERS IS BUTTING BUTTS WITH AMERICA CHAVEZ! This is canon and it means the world to me.

    Eli and Kate are also butting butts! Eli/Kate shippers, come get your juice!

    I don't know why Cassie is randomly paired with Tommy, but I guess they just wanted an excuse to add all the classic YA members there.

    And is that Clint dancing by himself in the background? KASJFG:AOIFH:APIFHOFH Suits him well.

  15. #1215
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Poor Johnny. Hidden by the logo.
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